Migrants - Italy making a stand

[fastwunz]

A zone could have easily been setup just inside the country and hundreds of miles from any conflict. With a 1st world millitary guarding it nothing hostile would get within 50 miles. As towns and cities are liberated people could leave the safe zone and return easily to their homes. Genuine refugees could be determined in the camp and given passage to Europe. I'm sure EU countries would be a lot happier knowing they're helping actual refugees and not getting mugged off by opportunists.


The EU is a weak, dysfunctional mess with one foot in the grave.


I don't care what they want, they're guests.

Very much in agreement. Bravo Italy. It HAS to stop and nobody had the balls to do anything about it. Sending a message to the other side is the only way to do it. First country you come to you stop in and Italy has a duty to protect their own people and their own peoples interests - BEFORE all else.

Genuine refugees, once determined to actually be so, should indeed be granted asylum.

In order to determine who is and who isn’t genuine you need less people coming to allow you the time and resources to check properly.

As such, don’t let anyone else in until you have sorted the genuine from the not so genuine.

Too many chancers, too many abandoning their own country and their fellow inhabitants and what will be left will be the infirm, elderly and inept. Any young men or women who could have built the economy of their country will be sat in a council paid for flat in a ghettoised part of some city in Europe.

This isn’t good for them, the town they end up in, the area they inhabit or indeed themselves.

It’s awful that so many are seeking asylum but without discouragement, no amount of turbo liberal feelings of charity, injustice or human equality will detract from the plain and simple fact that Europe in its current state can not cope. Nor should it.

I could scream at the way so many countries around the world fight over one sky pixie or another or something that one lot did to the other hundreds of years ago - because one lot thought it’s sky pixie was better than the others sky pixie. It’s frankly pathetic, endemic and a complete blight on humanity.

I hate war. I hate corruption and I hate the way it destroys innocent people’s lives - no matter who you are.

 

[Nasher]

EU countries easily have the military power to setup and maintain a safe zone in Syria.

Only the UK and France. Most of the other EU armies are in a poor state and would need NATO backing.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

So I guess by that definition you could be an economic migrant and a refugee then...

There's definitely an argument that once refugees get into Europe and start moving around that they could then be considered in part an economic migrant, however that's a political issue that Merkel was trying to solve in 2015. Leaving Greece to deal with all of them was not and is not fair IMO, but EU countries are now sending people back to Greece as the "first safe country" that have arrived in more recent times, as the situation in Greece has stabilised.

And you'll be pleased to know asylum applications have dropped rapidly since the influx of during 2015/16 to a more normal rate.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...t-time_applicants:_560_thousand_fewer_in_2017

That said it's doubtful those coming from North Africa are applying for asylum (the vast majority of asylum applications over the last few years have been from Syria, with a third of them being under 18 and around a third of them female).

As I said before, to conflate the migrants coming from North Africa and those coming into Greece from places like Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan is to wofully fail to understand the issue, and subsequently come up with any proportionate response to it.

What?

 

[Chris Wilson]

More pressure on Merkel as the EU migrant crisis takes centre stage, can she survive much longer and what would her successor bring?



German Chancellor Angela Merkel's leadership under threat over migrant policy

Germany's interior minister gives the chancellor two weeks to change her stance or he will send migrants back to other EU states.

18:28, UK, Sunday 17 June 2018
Angela Merkel risks being ousted as German leader by interior minister Horst Seehofer




Angela Merkel's leadership is under threat after her alliance partner gave her two weeks to agree to turn away refugees at Germany's borders.

In an unprecedented challenge to her 13 years as Germany's chancellor, a resolution by her interior minister, Horst Seehofer, is set to be passed on Monday, party aides told German newspaper Bild Zeitung.

He wants Germany to send back migrants who have already registered in other EU countries.

The policy would undermine Mrs Merkel's authority after she operated an open-door approach in 2015 which led to thousands of migrants entering Germany after first coming to the EU through another country.

Mr Seehofer will give Mrs Merkel two weeks to gain support from her EU partners to halt the policy, or he will carry out the order himself.

The rebel minister is leader of the Christian Social Union in Bavaria, whose parent party is Mrs Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (CDU). The two parties are part of the same overall coalition running Germany.
Mrs Merkel is hoping French president Emmanuel Macron will agree to a joint migrant proposal
Image: Mrs Merkel hopes Emmanuel Macron will agree to a joint migrant proposal

Mrs Merkel is trying to get France to create a joint proposal with her to tighten asylum rules before the EU leaders summit in late June.

The government denied wanting to discuss possible bilateral solutions with Greece, Italy and Austria on how to deal with the large numbers of people fleeing conflict.

However, a spokesman said Mrs Merkel is in close contact with those states.
A convoy composed of 630 migrants docked in Valencia, Spain on the morning of Sunday, June 17.

Mr Merkel is adamant that there needs to be a Europe-wide migrant policy, but Mr Seehofer disagrees and last week reportedly told CSU leaders in private he "can no longer work" with the chancellor.

She asked the CSU to give her two weeks to come up with deals similar to one agreed between Turkey and the EU in 2016, which means migrants arriving in Greece are sent back to Turkey if they do not apply for asylum.

In return, Turkey, which is not in the EU, receives aid and its citizens are allowed visa-free travel to the Schengen passport-free zone.
Angela Merkel led an open-door migrant policy in 2015, which led to thousands of refugees coming to Germany


The German chancellor wants the EU to give states more power to turn away refugees to stop Germany being the only one with the policy.

Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, secretary general of Mrs Merkel's CDU Party, said: "It could weaken our negotiating position and potentially impact other areas such as the euro."

The migrant issue has come to a head this week after a new Italian government refused to let a ship carrying 629 migrants dock at its ports.

Italy's foreign affairs minister Enzo Moavero Milanesi said on Sunday the political strategy is meant to shake consciences.


https://news.sky.com/story/german-ch...olicy-11407939

 

[Freakbro]

I thought the EU was supposed to have collapsed by now?

Though it is cute you are still desperately hoping!

As the German chancellor met leaders of her Christian Democratic Union (CDU) on Sunday in an attempt to divert the collapse of her fledgling administration, Seehofer emerged from emergency talks with his Christian Social Union (CSU) saying he had no intention of toppling Merkel.

“No one in the CSU is interested in bringing the chancellor down, or dissolving the CDU/CSU parliamentary partnership or destroying the coalition,” Seehofer told the Bild am Sonntag newspaper, adding that he did not want the asylum row to endanger the coalition government, which is less than 100 days old.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/17/angela-merkel-extra-time-reach-deal-with-eu-asylum-row

 

[Nasher]

Yea because we can totally believe what a politician says

He will never admit he wants to topple her. A move like that costs voters.

 

[Tefal]

I'm not sure a military option would have gone down well with the public, especially when soldiers started dying.

The EU as a whole refused to help. One of the options that was agreed on later was to help fund refugee camps in Turkey (part of the deal to send many Syrians that are in Europe back), but so far most of the money is still forthcoming, and it wouldn't have helped Greece at the time.

One of the ideas prior to Merkels speech was to set up a processing system run by the EU in Greece, and then distribute successful refugees throughout the EU, reducing the burden on individual states, but that failed to come to pass. Countries were more interested in not having to deal with it, and letting Greece handle it instead.

It's also worth noting that the majority of Refugees preferred to end up in Germany prior to Merkels speech, due to the large Syrian community there.

Would manybsoldiers actually die though?

A huge camp bastion type refuge center in the middle of the dessert Would be a pretty safe place to be as lin as everyone comming in was searched throughly before arrival

 

[jas72]

Lol...Christ sake.

Or how about no? I know, let's just let everyone in. That's going swimmingly in Germany right now isn't it. Or how about the UK where public services are almost at breaking point already with the current levels of funding of immigration. An extra 100,000 a year isn't sustainable for any of the EU, and Spain really have shot themselves in the foot by opening the doors to this boat

Hope you don't mind me fixing your post Steedie with facts

 

[Chris Wilson]

I have written many times expressing that I feel the EU will be gone as we know it within 10 years, and migration will be the expedient. I think I want to alter my prediction to a much shorter time span now, as the Union has totally ignored the vast level of economic migrants pouring into the EU to the stage where rebellion is growing exponentially. If Merkel is shunted out I think we will see the Bloc disintegrate a lot sooner, and a further swing to the Right as individual nations rebel against this invasion by undocumented and financially and socially burdensome migrants.

 

[trigg_27]

What confuses me most about this whole situation is why, when they were refused entry to Italy, did they then go on to Malta and Spain, instead of simply sending them back to their port of origin.

This just encourages other potential economic migrants to attempt the crossing, knowing that once they get to sea someone will take them in

 

[Chris Wilson]

I guess not allowing them to land at port X but allowing the ship to sail to a place of welcome, however ill conceived the intent of said port, is very different to enforced escort under duress to their place of embarkation. Hopefully the latter will become the norm ASAP. Then scuttle the ship! Possibly a change in European and UK maritime law is called for, rather than the current obsession with weirdos "upskirting"

 

[MikeTheNative]

What confuses me most about this whole situation is why, when they were refused entry to Italy, did they then go on to Malta and Spain, instead of simply sending them back to their port of origin.

This just encourages other potential economic migrants to attempt the crossing, knowing that once they get to sea someone will take them in

The port of origin probably doesn't want them either. There's a good vice documentary on youtube where they go to a prison full migrants who failed to make it across ( i think it's in Libya), the place was over capacity by about 4 times.

 

[Steedie]

Hope you don't mind me fixing your post Steedie with facts

I do mind given you fixed it incorrectly Both funding and immigration are breaking the NHS

 

[Freakbro]

Both funding and immigration are breaking the NHS

Yes, the lack of both is an issue...

 

[dowie]

Yes, the lack of both is an issue...

not in this context (we don't really have a lack of immigration to the UK, we have a shortage of doctors thus need to make sure it is easy for trained medical professionals to come here) - the sort of migrants on that boat generally aren't going to make much of a contribution, it was among the earliest arrivals from Syria where some Engineers and Doctors came in

illegals with no qualifications from Nigeria and similar - well they can end up standing in nightclub bathrooms trying to flog knock off scents while repeating "no splash no gash" etc..

 

[Freakbro]

not in this context (we don't really have a lack of immigration to the UK, we have a shortage of doctors thus need to make sure it is easy for trained medical professionals to come here) - the sort of migrants on that boat generally aren't going to make much of a contribution, it was among the earliest arrivals from Syria where some Engineers and Doctors came in

illegals with no qualifications from Nigeria and similar - well they can end up standing in nightclub bathrooms trying to flog knock off scents while repeating "no splash no gash" etc..

And the migrants on these boats aren't coming to the UK to use our NHS either...

So what immigration is he on about [in this context]? Since the immigration we do have coming into this country is propping up the NHS, not bringing it down

 

[Nasher]

The immigration and lack of staff are breaking it. But it's pretty much the same across government. Even the military is way understaffed atm.

People don't want to work in the public sector because they don't know how stable the jobs are. We are in a weird situation where they are trying to make cuts, but also have recruitment problems and are desperately trying to fill posts before the whole thing implodes.

 

[dowie]

And the migrants on these boats aren't coming to the UK to use our NHS either...

sure, they're coming to try and make money, the NHS isn't all that good at controlling access (and it isn't practical in some circumstances anyway) a pregnant woman from one of those boats isn't going to be turned away for example ditto to someone coming into A&E - they can of course run up a bill that doesn't get paid.

Of course the poster wasn't specific re: immigration - there is a tendency for some to want to look at all immigration as a whole (where you include say French and American bankers earning huge six figure sums and throw them in with everyone else) and therefore naively conclude that immigration is good across the board when it isn't necessarily.

Immigration can be great, where it is needed, uncontrolled immigration is just silly though.

 

[mmj_uk]

What confuses me most about this whole situation is why, when they were refused entry to Italy, did they then go on to Malta and Spain, instead of simply sending them back to their port of origin.

This just encourages other potential economic migrants to attempt the crossing, knowing that once they get to sea someone will take them in

Because it's EU policy and they couldn't care less about what the 'populist' governments (those actually representing their peoples) think, that's why the EU is in a state of disintegration.

 

[Chris Wilson]

And the migrants on these boats aren't coming to the UK to use our NHS either...

So what immigration is he on about [in this context]? Since the immigration we do have coming into this country is propping up the NHS, not bringing it down

It's rather concerning in just what manner these migrants are going to relate to their hosts health services, given that those that deal with them are always masked and bio-hazard suited up as if dealing with a 2 month old corpse. Seems those that deal with them daily have some fear of what they might be riddled with to me

"To get closer and at sea level—we fly back to the Fasan and get into the ship's speed boat, and watch as navy teams move people to the warship in small groups. All personnel involved in the operation are dressed head to toe in white biohazard suits, face masks and gloves, in case of infectious disease. We're told that in all the crossings not a single case of Ebola has been brought over."


YET!

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/20/world/amanpour-mediterranean-migrant-rescue/index.html