Monaco Grand Prix 2010, Monte Carlo - Race 6/19

[Deleted member 651465]

oh yeah forgot about massa. Can't remember did he cross it or touch it?

Didn't even realise webber was speeding.

I'd have to watch it again, he certainly touched the line but I also remember thinking it was touch and go, then Brundle piped up about it which usually gives the game away.


@ Kenai.. race control ballsed up then. Not only waving greens, but to issue a "track clear" message if they were still under SC.

 

[OspreyO]

Missed it earlier. Any channel showing late night highlights anymore?

 

[Glaucus]

Skip to the end of highlite, not only does the sc car have it's lights of green flags and green lights clearly flashing.

 

[Kenai]

@ Kenai.. race control ballsed up then. Not only waving greens, but to issue a "track clear" message if they were still under SC.

That's it, either they screwed up or the safety car was actually in and the race wasn't finishing under SC conditions... either way rendering the related rule irrelevant and the move legit.

 

[BigglesPiP]

The rules are definitely too convoluted. Nobody properly knew the rule before that overtake, nobody quoted it with the correct meaning after the incident.

And the person who says "safety car in" and "track clear" shouldn't have done so, there shouldn't have been green lights.

Schumacher was in the wrong though, when you take the rules at face value, which is the only thing you should ever do. I want to ban the phrase "spirit of the rules".

I don't see why we have this new line anyway, it's not added to the racing yet and it's caused yet another race result to be decided off the track. BOOOO!



Edit: What happened to that drain cover?

 

[Kenai]

Schumacher was in the wrong though, when you take the rules at face value

No, he wasn't.

The rule says 'if the race finishes under SC conditions'.

The race did not finish under SC conditions (be that via race control screwing up or it genuinely just being like that - personally I think the latter) and so that rule does not apply and so Schumacher's move was legitimate.

It's simple, no 'spirit of the rules' involved, it's very black and white what the rule is and by the rule Schumacher was in the right. I am at a complete loss as to how it got ruled differently.

 

[Jono8]

Race control need to put their hands up and admit they made a mistake putting the green lights and flags out. By doing that they contradicted their own rules.

They should just put schumi back to 7th and admit they got it wrong and clarify the rule for next time.

 

[I_M_Weasel]

Not a big MSC fan but he doesn't deserve a penalty, if he did break the rules then they should just swap him and alonso's places back and then write the rules with a bit more clarity.

Anyone actualy like monaco as a grand prix? Its got the glamour but its a dull race, so many better circuits out there.

 

[arknor]

The rules are definitely too convoluted. Nobody properly knew the rule before that overtake, nobody quoted it with the correct meaning after the incident.

And the person who says "safety car in" and "track clear" shouldn't have done so, there shouldn't have been green lights.

Schumacher was in the wrong though, when you take the rules at face value, which is the only thing you should ever do. I want to ban the phrase "spirit of the rules".

I don't see why we have this new line anyway, it's not added to the racing yet and it's caused yet another race result to be decided off the track. BOOOO!



Edit: What happened to that drain cover?

i like how in the f1 forum brundle , coulthard and eddie jordan all though schumacher would keep his points.

f1 is stupid when the majority of people expect one thing and the fia go and do the exact oposite and just make it look like they have a hidden agenda

 

[Phoen1x]

I am one of the first to critisise Schmi when he does something dangerous or unsportsmanlike, but that was a clear cut, perfectly timed overtake taking advantage of an error by the car in front. How on earth can the race be finishing under the safety car when it isnt on the track....and as has been said, all track indications were that it was racing conditions.

Damon is going to catch a lot of fire for this, it undermines the whole point of having a driver there to advise imo.

 

[dalin80]

Anyone actualy like monaco as a grand prix? Its got the glamour but its a dull race, so many better circuits out there.

Have never liked the placed, as a race venue its awful and as pretty as the place is its hard to get past that the whole thing is just an excuse for bernie to spend a bit more time trying to rim a few more tax dodgers.


We see one decent overtake in the whole race and then the stewards declare it illegal.

picardfacepalm.jpg

 

[Spie]

I think dull is the wrong word to describe the race yesterday.

Monaco is a very demanding circuit and just watching the drivers at speed only a few centimetres from the armco is very exciting. Throw in several spectacular crashes, a petulant Spaniard who thinks the whole world should move over for him, a controversial overtake in the last few seconds and there was definitely enough to keep me interested.

 

[stockhausen]

... How on earth can the race be finishing under the safety car when it isn't on the track....and as has been said, all track indications were that it was racing conditions. ...

Schumacher was clearly in breach of FIA 2010 F1 Sporting Rule 40.13

40.13 If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.

Is the rule badly worded? Yes it seems to be.
Did the acclaimed Monaco marshals switch to waved green flags when they shouldn't have? Possibly.
Was Charlie Whiting wrong to switch the lights to green? Perhaps, although I suspect that that all happens automatically as a result of the Safety Car pulling off he track.

... Damon is going to catch a lot of fire for this ...

Very likely, the media have papers to sell and the Schumacher fanboys have never believed that he should be subject to the same rules as everyone else and Damon Hill certainly has good reason not to be a fan of the cheating Schumacher.

... it undermines the whole point of having a driver there to advise imo.

No it doesn't; so far as I am aware, none of the divers who have advised / will advise the stewards is a lawyer; they are there to give the driver's perspective, not to apply their legal minds to the interpretation of the rules.


There is what seems an excellent analysis on the F1 Fanatic website

 

[Glaucus]

Schumacher was clearly in breach of FIA 2010 F1 Sporting Rule 40.13Is the rule badly worded?

How is that clearly in breach. SC pulling of and green flags/lights and the change of SC line. Does not make it clear at all, in fact everything points to a race finish.
The race did not finish under SC.

 

[stockhausen]

How is that clearly in breach. SC pulling of and green flags/lights and the change of SC line. Does not make it clear at all, in fact everything points to a race finish.
The race did not finish under SC.

Read the linked article . . .

 

[Glaucus]

Read the linked article . . .

and I don't think it is a problem. The greens where out, the SC line has been moved. That rule therefore does not apply. If the SC boards and flags stayed out, then it would apply. but they did not.

I agree it is badly written. But with all the other flags and procedures. It clearly did not end under safety car.

The reason for the safety car had been removed, the FIA had announced ‘Safety Car in this lap’ early on lap 78 and the track had been declared clear by race control. This was further endorsed when the marshals showed green flags and lights after safety car line one. On previous occasions when it has been necessary to complete a race under a safety car, full course yellows are maintained, as in Melbourne 2009.

And that article is a bit silly.

Brawn’s reasoning is persuasive but if his interpretation of the rules were correct we would have the strange situation where drivers were allowed to race from the safety car line to the finishing line. That scenario seems to be what article 40.13 was written to prevent.

No it is a legacy rule, from when the SC did not apply.

 

[PlumpMonkey]

Read the linked article . . .

I believe the article is misleading. The whole defence of the stewards decision rests on the statement;

As the safety car is approaching the pit entry the yellow flags and SC boards will be withdrawn and replaced by waved green flags with green lights at the Line. These will be displayed until the last car crosses the Line.

However, that piece of text, which the article neglects to give any reference for, is actually from rule 40.11, which begins;

40.11 When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP" will be displayed on the timing monitors and the car's orange lights will be extinguished This will be the signal to the teams and drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.

So, the SC boards and the green flags are waved once the SC has been deemed to come in because its now safe to race.

 

[Mr Jack]

Silly rule produces silly result. I hope Mercedes win their appeal.

 

[Sukh]

Schumacher was clearly in breach of FIA 2010 F1 Sporting Rule 40.13Is the rule badly worded? Yes it seems to be.
Did the acclaimed Monaco marshals switch to waved green flags when they shouldn't have? Possibly.
Was Charlie Whiting wrong to switch the lights to green? Perhaps, although I suspect that that all happens automatically as a result of the Safety Car pulling off he track.

A driver sees flags and does the corresponding.
Maybe drivers should carry on friving past the chequered flag as it might not be right, or maybe when black flagged should carry on as it might be wrong, or when blue flagged; carry on regardless.

The fact is, the flags were green, so the race was on as far as the drivers on the track were concerned.

You can rest on technicalities as much as you like.

 

[Kenai]

Schumacher was clearly in breach of FIA 2010 F1 Sporting Rule 40.13

No, he very clearly wasn't because the race did not finish under SC conditions. Simple as that.

Whether it was by mistake and they sent all the transmissions and waved the wrong flags and showed the wrong lights in error (it's not automatic, they didn't do this last year when a race finished under the SC but still pulled in) or the safety car was genuinely in is largely irrelevant as the result of either is that the race did not finish under safety car conditions and so rule 40.13 does not apply.