Monaco Grand Prix 2011, Monte-Carlo - Race 6/19

[JRS]

Without Hamilton and Kobayashi, would we have seen any overtaking in the race? While they can get it wrong, I respect them for having the aggression that someone like Vettel or Webber lacks.

I don't have a problem at all with aggression on-track. I have a problem with the way Hamilton sometimes lets things get the better of him far too early in the race weekend, though. And this was one of those times.

Right from the moment that he (wrongly, IMO) aborted his first Q3 timed lap he lost it. His head was no longer properly in the game. When he's calm and focused, his natural speed is given free reign and he can pull off breathtaking moves with skill and precision that put pretty much all of his contemporaries to shame. But when he's convinced that every single thing that goes awry is a conspiracy against him, he goes right off the deep-end and takes on risky moves that never have a hope in hell of coming off.

It might make for a spectacular show, but I don't like seeing that latter version of Lewis. I'd much rather see the other version, and watch him calmly and precisely demolish the entire field. I hope we get to see that in Canada, ideally with Vettel dropping points so we can actually have a title race this season.

 

[Dup]

Button was on it in the race, he was banging in the laps when they counted and the misfortune of others counted towards his own misfortune.

I was gutted about the last safety car, my head was in my hands as it was fast becoming a race finale we'd be talking about for years to come. Then they changed the tyres for the restart... oh well. At least Button asserted himself this weekend, Monaco is a tough track for all the drivers and it was great to see so many drivers really committed to ringing their cars neck the whole distance. Loved it up till that last safety car

 

[Indy500]

I don't have a problem at all with aggression on-track. I have a problem with the way Hamilton sometimes lets things get the better of him far too early in the race weekend, though. And this was one of those times.

Right from the moment that he (wrongly, IMO) aborted his first Q3 timed lap he lost it. His head was no longer properly in the game. When he's calm and focused, his natural speed is given free reign and he can pull off breathtaking moves with skill and precision that put pretty much all of his contemporaries to shame. But when he's convinced that every single thing that goes awry is a conspiracy against him, he goes right off the deep-end and takes on risky moves that never have a hope in hell of coming off.

Didn't see qualifying so I can't comment there. I agree that the move on Massa was far too ambitious, but Maldonado turned in far too early so Lewis had nowhere to go (the old barrier at Ste Devote should have been moved back a bit, not removed entirely).

It might make for a spectacular show, but I don't like seeing that latter version of Lewis. I'd much rather see the other version, and watch him calmly and precisely demolish the entire field. I hope we get to see that in Canada, ideally with Vettel dropping points so we can actually have a title race this season.

We'll have to wait and see. Now that Alonso and Ferrari have fallen away, Lewis is the only real challenger to Vettel's dominance at the moment. Unless Webber has a resurgence that is.

 

[Kerming]

We'll have to wait and see. Now that Alonso and Ferrari have fallen away, Lewis is the only real challenger to Vettel's dominance at the moment. Unless Webber has a resurgence that is.

silverstone is going to be the turning point. yeah vettel may win the next few race's but come silverstone we should see a big drop in overall speed on that redbull, thats if they ban this stupid blown diffuser which the rules say they shouldn't have anyway.

 

[utajoker]

i have to agree button didnt have a great race.

he didnt even look like he was going to attempt a move at any point in the closing stages. with tyres so much fresher he should have gone for it.

had alonso been in the same position he would have taken first. he was even trying on his old tyres and came close.

the lack of overtaking without a penalty shows this track is nothing more than a money maker, you cant race here.

58 points is a big gap to close. vettel needs some none finishes.

 

[dannyjo22]

dannyjo22, Surely that gap between Qualifying & Race day vanishes due to aggressive engine settings in qually that would destroy an engine & or it's fuel economy during a race? Or is this not possible?

Yeah but personally I think it maybe a combination of the rear wing working well with a full drs lap and the EBD. I'm not sure the drop off is going to be as great as everyone thinks.

I've seent hings like this before where everyone says wait until for example Mclarens thrird pedal is banned or renaults mass damper and the effects have never been a loss of 7/10th or more.

I'm interested to know if CS can tell us if and when the EBD gets banned how much extra fuel per lap it required. They can only be using it sparingly in the race I imagine and are still the class of the field.

 

[JRS]

with tyres so much fresher he should have gone for it.

And honestly - what would have been the point in sending a rash one up the inside of Alonso? They'd almost certainly have collided (Alonso isn't the type to give room!), Button would almost certainly have been penalised, and that's if it wasn't a race-ending collision.

the lack of overtaking without a penalty shows this track is nothing more than a money maker, you cant race here.

People overtook without getting penalised. Hamilton had managed such a feat earlier in the race when getting back by Schumacher with that excellent move at Ste Devote. But he was still in such a snit over the qualifying mess that he buggered it up trying to get by Massa, which put him far enough back in the pack for what happened later on with his rear wing getting damaged and then tanking into the side of Maldonado when the green flag flew.

Hopefully by now he's had a sit-down with the team, and they've worked out a way of keeping his brain engaged when things don't go quite to plan. Otherwise he won't be adding to that 2008 title any time soon. It seemed like he was growing as a person and a driver towards the end of the '09 season, with the problems they'd had at the start of the year. Has that all been undone already?

 

[SKILL]

Yeah but personally I think it maybe a combination of the rear wing working well with a full drs lap and the EBD. I'm not sure the drop off is going to be as great as everyone thinks.

I've seent hings like this before where everyone says wait until for example Mclarens thrird pedal is banned or renaults mass damper and the effects have never been a loss of 7/10th or more.

I'm interested to know if CS can tell us if and when the EBD gets banned how much extra fuel per lap it required. They can only be using it sparingly in the race I imagine and are still the class of the field.

I also doubt it's going to make 7/10ths, but I also think you can add the rake they run to the Rear Wing/DRS + EBD in qualifying, the EBD allows the Rake it seems, remove the rake and I think we'll see more of a drop than you'd expect from pure EBD,

Saying that, I think they'll still have enough in hand to get poles, although it may bunch the field up a bit in qualifying, whether the lack of the EBD+Rake will affect them more than McLaren's lack of EBD during the race (where arguably the McLaren is already the quicker car) leading to McLaren getting the race results who knows...

 

[Ceryndrion]

58 points is a big gap to close. vettel needs some none finishes.

Don't forget, 2009 saw JB win 6 of the first 7 races, with the following places being a bit all over the place, while I fully expect redbull to be more able to be consistent this year than brawn were in '09, I wouldn't give up just yet, yes the points are more, but overall its not that much of a different situation. In fact, its very similar, in '09 JB was getting all the breaks, and Rubens was crying about how it was unfair that he was having all the bad luck.. this year, everything is going SV's way, and Webber is being left in the dark.

 

[dannyjo22]

I also doubt it's going to make 7/10ths, but I also think you can add the rake they run to the Rear Wing/DRS + EBD in qualifying, the EBD allows the Rake it seems, remove the rake and I think we'll see more of a drop than you'd expect from pure EBD,

Why though would they remove the higher rake when the car runs very fast anyway when not using the EBD? That's me assuming they can't be using it for the whole race due to fuel consumption????

Surely it would be more risky altering something that's working for them?

 

[dannyjo22]

Don't forget, 2009 saw JB win 6 of the first 7 races, with the following places being a bit all over the place, while I fully expect redbull to be more able to be consistent this year than brawn were in '09, I wouldn't give up just yet, yes the points are more, but overall its not that much of a different situation. In fact, its very similar, in '09 JB was getting all the breaks, and Rubens was crying about how it was unfair that he was having all the bad luck.. this year, everything is going SV's way, and Webber is being left in the dark.

The huge difference is Brawn stopped developing the car, RB will keep going until the end. Not only that RB is very reliable this year. I think this season is over Tbh.

Even a ban on something on the Red Bull will be too late and no one else is consistently on the podium.

Game over man, game over.

 

[Slam62]

Why though would they remove the higher rake when the car runs very fast anyway when not using the EBD? That's me assuming they can't be using it for the whole race due to fuel consumption????

Surely it would be more risky altering something that's working for them?

of course they are not going to alter something that is working for them, but it won't work as well with no off throttle air.

I would say that with out the extra volume of air, the diffuser will stall, and it will have several knock on affects on the rest of the aero.
RB for instance will have to completely change the philosophy of the front wing.

The cars are not that special TBH, the diffusers are very basic. They are relatively fast and noisy though

Don't expect the RB to drop that far, I expect them to drop a bit and I expect the others to improve.

I think the driver will have a bigger say in the final outcome. I have changed my mind about Hammi, I like the fact that he lost the plot because he gave a ****. I think Hammi will give it hell until the end of the season and so will Fred.

 

[Slam62]

The huge difference is Brawn stopped developing the car, RB will keep going until the end. Not only that RB is very reliable this year. I think this season is over Tbh.

Even a ban on something on the Red Bull will be too late and no one else is consistently on the podium.

Game over man, game over.

isn't there 13 races to go? 325 points

 

[TheGamingGeneral]

isn't there 13 races to go? 325 points

SV is that much of a jammy little **** that even if the RB fell behind the mclarens/ferraris etc he would pick up just enough points to win it.

I also wish MW would get his act together and start taking the points off him. Didnt MW get the fastest race lap again at monaco? He isnt lacking speed, as far as I can tell, hes just aint being consistent enough :/

 

[Rybo89]

Guys just noticed next one is on whilst i am in Salou, does anybody know if Spain have BBC1 or some other English channel?

 

[utajoker]

SV is that much of a jammy little **** that even if the RB fell behind the mclarens/ferraris etc he would pick up just enough points to win it.

if hamilton wins all remaining races and vettel finishes 2nd in all then hamilton will win by about 33 points.

i cant see that happening unless this blown diffuser ban alters the red bull dramatically but thats not going to happen.

i also cant see vettel ever finishing out of the top 3 unless its a dnf and i cant see rb having many dnfs. vettel gets on pole so miss the first corner action and have been mechanically sound for 1/3 of the season.

think it may be over already.

i remember when button won 5/6 races at the beggining of the season and it was amazing but now people arnt that bothered about vettel doing it

hamilton is strong at canada so lets hope it can start there

 

[ins0mn1ac]

SV is that much of a jammy little **** that even if the RB fell behind the mclarens/ferraris etc he would pick up just enough points to win it.

I also wish MW would get his act together and start taking the points off him. Didnt MW get the fastest race lap again at monaco? He isnt lacking speed, as far as I can tell, hes just aint being consistent enough :/

He's having really bad starts and his qualifying isn't amazing either! I do hope he sorts it out though.

 

[ng93]

He's having really bad starts and his qualifying isn't amazing either! I do hope he sorts it out though.

I know absolutely nothing about F1 so this is probably completely wrong however is it possible that hes having problems getting used to the EBD, and when thats banned he'll start doing well in quali?

 

[Duke]

MW has lost his mojo since being beaten to the title last year imo.

 

[dannyjo22]

of course they are not going to alter something that is working for them, but it won't work as well with no off throttle air.

But it is working well enough for them to lead races and set fast laps?
After all you said yourself they aren't using it in the races hence the speed drop off from qually.

They cannot be using it all the time and the pace with the high rake is still there. Well to me it seems to be.

isn't there 13 races to go? 325 points

He's won 5 races. I fully expect him to win atleast 3 more races before anyone even thinks about banning EBD. When was the last time anyone won 8 races and lost a title?

No one has the consistency or a team mate to not take points off them like Vettel. Sure Massa wont trouble Alonso but the car is miles away from Red Bull, EBD or not.

The only way Vettel will lose this title is with a run of tragically bad reliability.