Monaco Grand Prix 2013, Monte Carlo - Race 6/19

Irish_Tom said:
If the data from the Ferrari and Merc test was as locked down as described in that quote above then it's even less of an issue and funny that Ferrari are making such a fuss.
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This is the issue. Pirelli run the Renault car provided to them (albeit with a little assistance from a couple of Lotus employees), whereas, for the Mercedes test at least, it seems it was the Mercedes race team who were doing everything except for tyres.

Apparently the Ferrari test was assisted by the Corse Clienti, its customer division.
 
this_is_gav said:
Yes, I'm aware that Badoer had replaced Massa, hence the "had never driven" response, meaning up until the point he got into it. You said he'd developed the car, but he hadn't even sat in it until the week before Valencia.
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Yeah despite plenty of simulator time and a test before his first race and all the mileage he did over two race weekends, plus all the race weekends fisi did neither of them managed to get anywhere near the performance and consistincy of Massa or Kimi, the results speak for themselves, fisischella went from the podium in a force india, to being in the lower midfield and scoring no points a few races later, despite that being a race winning car in kimi's hands. I'm not sure you could have picked a worse example to illustrate your point :P picking a different driver is a gamble, the differences are fine sometimes, but the wrong driver could make a representative car, suddenly not representative, you don't get two go's at it, so why gamble.

The Renault test car was a different situation slightly outside the rules as it was unanimously agreed by all teams and not under the 1000km test clause the recent tests were done but you would hope they took the same steps to hide the data
 
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Zuban said:
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It's already been posted that Lewis and Merc said that it will take 6 months before Lewis gets the things he needs.

And for a racer coming into a new team he is doing awesome. And as for locking up his brakes well that's how he has ALWAYS driven.

I thought 2013 would be a getting to know Merc time and in 2014 he will get some wins but NO Lewis is getting the job done now.
 
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Think most of us predicted Lewis would drag the Merc up there, not that they would show actual pace. As a Lewis fan I thought he would be showing Nico how to grab pole etc etc, not happening. Nico has shot up in my estimations.
 
deuse said:
Very true indeed. Other than Senna I can't think of a driver doing so well in a new team. Roll on Canada :D
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Starting in 1980 (round number, and after most drivers participated in multiple series and frequently switched teams), I've compiled a list of drivers who won in their first season with a new team.

Carlos Reutemann: 1980, Williams
Didier Pironi: 1980, Ligier
Alain Prost: 1981, Renault | 1984, McLaren | 1990, Ferrari | 1993, Williams
Keke Rosberg: 1983, Williams
Niki Lauda: 1982, McLaren
Patrick Tambay: 1982, Ferrari
Riccardo Patrese: 1982, Brabham
Rene Arnoux: 1983, Ferrari
Michele Alboreto: 1984, Ferrari
Ayrton Senna: 1985, Lotus | 1988, McLaren
Nigel Mansell: 1985, Williams | 1989, Ferrari | 1991, Williams* | 1994, Williams*
Nelson Piquet: 1986, Williams | 1990, Benetton
Gerhard Berger: 1986, Benetton | 1987, Ferrari
Thierry Boutsen: 1989, Williams
Damon Hill: 1993, Williams | 1998, Jordan
Jacques Villeneuve: 1996, Williams
Michael Schumacher: 1996, Ferrari
Heinz-Harald Frentzen: 1996, Williams | 1999, Jordan**
Johnny Herbert: 1999, Stewart
Rubens Barrichello: 2000, Ferrari
Juan Pablo Montoya: 2001, Williams | 2005, McLaren
Giancarlo Fisichella: 2005, Renault
Felipe Massa: 2006, Ferrari
Kimi Raikkonen: 2007, Ferrari | 2012, Lotus
Lewis Hamilton: 2007, McLaren
Fernando Alonso: 2007, McLaren | 2008, Renault* | 2010, Ferrari
Heikki Kovalainen: 2008, McLaren
Sebastian Vettel: 2009, Red Bull
Jenson Button: 2010, McLaren


* If you include drivers returning to a team they had previously driven for.

** Heinz-Harald Frentzen managed the feat of winning in his first seasons in two different teams, but he only won three races in his career.
 
Lol. I did see that comment from deuse and thought about running off some stats, but decided I was too lazy too :D

Going on the theory that the Mercedes is one of the fastest, if not the fastest outright car on the grid, I'd say Hamilton's start to the year has been below where it could have been. That said though, the results he have had have been more to do with tyres or team strategy than him not being fast enough. If the Merc didn't nom its tyres and the team put enough fuel in he may well have won by now, maybe even twice.

But then if the Merc didn't chew its tyres, would it be the fastest... etc etc etc.. but bottom line, I think Hamilton's 2013 so far has been much better than people though it would be in 2012, but when you look back from now, knowing the Mercedes car is where it is, you raise the bar, and Hamilton's start (and Nico's to be fair) are not as good as they should be.

With the front row lockouts they have had Mercedes should be leading at least 1 of the championships.
 
deuse said:
I don't think it's the fastest car, I think it's rb but they have gone with a setup for race pace more then Merc.

Lets see what happens in July-Aug time they should solved Hamilton's breaks out by then.
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Other teams have a better package, but the Merc clearly has raw pace. If you look at qualifying results, and then at the championship standaings, it creates an odd picture. Had Monaco been more pit stops they would be even further down.

Its a shame that the regulations as they are hurt Mercedes in the races. In the refueling days they would be storming out in front of both championships by now.
 
Skeeter said:
Its a shame that the regulations as they are hurt Mercedes in the races. In the refueling days they would be storming out in front of both championships by now.
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Mercedes have had same opportunity as every other team to optimise their car for the conditions (Christ, I sound like a PR guy)... actually, given the Barcelona test, they've had more opportunity than everyone else, but they've either chosen to go in the wrong direction or have been unable to adapt—and given their recent record, you have to say they've been unable to adapt. They will get it right at some point, the sheer money they're throwing at it should see to that (and if this season, the testing irregularities) but at the moment I'd find it hard to argue against them making one of the best cars in F1 history (the BGP001) one of the worst race cars.

Would refueling actually make a difference? I'd argue they could make the stints more mundane than they are at the moment, as it would be a disaster if you had to pit for tyres before your fuel window. In the Goodyear/Bridgestone/tyre war eras the limiting factor was generally your fuel load—Pirelli, and this isn't necessarily a criticism, have made the limiting factor the tyres. I don't think Mercedes would benefit at all from a reintroduction of refueling. I think Lotus and Ferrari would be the biggest beneficiaries.
 
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deuse said:
It's already been posted that Lewis and Merc said that it will take 6 months before Lewis gets the things he needs.

And for a racer coming into a new team he is doing awesome. And as for locking up his brakes well that's how he has ALWAYS driven.

I thought 2013 would be a getting to know Merc time and in 2014 he will get some wins but NO Lewis is getting the job done now.
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  • Heavy late braking
  • Turn in
  • Power out
  • :cool:
 
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