Monaco Grand Prix 2013, Monte Carlo - Race 6/19

MagicBoy said:
I'm paraphrasing.

It would nullify the results of the testing if anything changes other than the tyres Pirelli supply.
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Ultimately, whatever tests Pirelli tell them to do, Merc will be getting telemetry based on the performance of that tyre, they will surely know the tyre compounds and ultimately then can use that data when they are used in the next race...

Lets put it this way....

Why would a top team invest time and resources to run a test if there was nothing in it for them? Even Ferrari will have benefitted from their test albeit in a car that is a few years old. The data can still be somehow used to their advantage...
 
Mr Men said:
Yeah ok then so why run with Lewis and Nico? surely any old driver would have done.....Lewis the guy who left McLaren as he needed his "spare" time then goes testing for something that does not benefit him or his team? pull the other one...
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The drivers and cars were there from the Spanish GP a couple of days before.

You think Pirelli know every technical detail of the Merc? would Pirelli know if they had bolted on new suspension in the morning before the test? Off course Pirelli would have no idea if Merc ran any development parts.
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They don't need to know. They just want a representative current car. They didn't ask Mercedes. Mercedes replied to an open invitation.
 
MagicBoy said:
It's blind testing. I refer you to my comments earlier in the thread that basically say they'd have got nothing out of it other than mileage on the cars/drivers.
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I didn't see this bit. Is there proof that Merc were not in the know about compounds etc?

What reasonable reason is there for Merc to support this test if they were not going to benefit from it?
 
MagicBoy said:
The drivers and cars were there from the Spanish GP a couple of days before.

They don't need to know. They just want a representative current car. They didn't ask Mercedes. Mercedes replied to an open invitation.
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So? Lewis never turned up at mid-season testing for McLaren, so why when would he for Mercedes if there was nothing to gain? Why did they not run their test driver if it was just plodding around with nothing to get from it? Clearly they ran their race drivers for a reason.

So Merc could well have ran many new parts at the test as Pirelli would not be in any position to police what is new and what is not. No matter anyway they have still gained from running an illegal test for 1000km new parts or not.
 
You'll have to ask Lewis that. I'd suggest taking off your tinfoil hat first or he might think you're a nutter. ;)

I give up on this. You've got your blinkers on again and I'm not wasting anymore time on this as I've got better things to be doing with my time!
 
Cavallino said:
So MB you reckon that Merc did not gain advantage even a fraction of a percent by running this test?
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Familiarity with the car and mileage under the wheels are the benefits. Might be worth fractions of something. No performance data that they can accurately attribute to the tyres, development parts or setup as in "normal" testing.

In my reasoned opinion.
 
MagicBoy said:
Familiarity with the car and mileage under the wheels are the benefits. Might be worth fractions of something. No performance data that they can accurately attribute to the tyres, development parts or setup as in "normal" testing.

In my reasoned opinion.
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So... all I'm looking for is a yes or no :)

Did they benefit from the test?

Answer = ? :)
 
Cavallino said:
So MB you reckon that Merc did not gain advantage even a fraction of a percent by running this test?
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MagicBoy said:
Familiarity with the car and mileage under the wheels are the benefits. Might be worth fractions of something. No performance data that they can accurately attribute to the tyres, development parts or setup as in "normal" testing.

In my reasoned opinion.
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Exactly, they gained information, but that information is unusable when you can not know whether the tyre it was gained on was harder or softer than previously gained data.

For example:

If they stuck a new wing end plate on designed to improve low speed traction, if they are unknowingly given a tyre with less grip, the end plate will look worse than previous. If they instead get a higher grip tyre, the end plate might look better than it actually is.

Plus, I think they used both drivers because it gives Pirelli a wider information band of different driving styles. If you stick the test driver in, who generally only does simulator work, or a single race driver, it won't be as useful on its own.
 
MagicBoy said:
I'll stick my neck out and say no.

Happy now? :p
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You don't believe that :)

Forgetting about whether its a test for Pirelli or whether its a blind test or whatever. Lets go back to basics.
Its a test, and this test gave them track time for their drivers, and also to learn about the performance of their own car post Barcelona.
The same can be said for Ferrari but their only get out of jail is that they didn't use this years car (but again perhaps the cars are not too dissimilar and some aspects of the test could be put into effect on the new car).

ANY track time will benefit a team, irrespective of the purpose of that test.

Put it another way, the test would have give Merc the opportunity to gain more data about their car, going into Monaco compared to other teams, how Merc chose to use it or whether they capitalised on it, is another topic.
 
Cavallino said:
You don't believe that :)

Put it another way, the test would have give Merc the opportunity to gain more data about their car, going into Monaco compared to other teams, how Merc chose to use it or whether they capitalised on it, is another topic.
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But pretty much any data they gained was unapplicable without knowing what tyres it was gained on. This is the same reason that the teams don't stick every new upgrade onto the car at once, because one upgrade could improve the car by the same amount as another worsens it.

There would only be a guaranteed advantage if Pirelli then brought the same tyres to the next race, which we all know they aren't going to do.
 
El_Watcher said:
But pretty much any data they gained was unapplicable without knowing what tyres it was gained on. This is the same reason that the teams don't stick every new upgrade onto the car at once, because one upgrade could improve the car by the same amount as another worsens it.

There would only be a guaranteed advantage if Pirelli then brought the same tyres to the next race, which we all know they aren't going to do.
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As I said, forget about tyres, forget about car advantages. Go even more basic.

The drivers, surely the track time from the test would have benefited them?
For Lewis to continue his familiarisation process with a relatively new car?

As I said, there was a definite benefit gained from this test, no matter how insignificant, its still that bit more than the other teams.

Put it another way, wouldn't you think the lower tiered teams would kill to be allowed to test their car as much as possible if given the chance?

EDIT: Hold the phone. I just read the article again. 1000kms of testing was done?

Holy crap, and you and MB are saying no benefit gained from such a test whatsoever?

Hmm.
 
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We all know that Hamilton has been struggling with the brakes on the Merc, yes? So by letting him do 500km of driving using said Merc to develop his driving style.... Well that is giving him and Merc an advantage.

Whatever else is said, you can't deny that fact.
 
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