Monitor quality control...is it actually getting worse? (Aorus rant)

[lugerfield]

The good qc monitors are clearly in the 21:9 ultra wide segment with LG panels . It's since years the sweetspot for "standard" monitors without an insane lottery.

Even pixel failures are pretty rare. If i want only a standard monitor without special features it would be my first choice. If you have not enough desk space maybe buy a new desk.

I have for my Oled 48" and X34GS a 2 x 1 m table. And for the AW3821DW another table.

If you want only 16:9 panels buy a Gigabyte FI27Q or FI27Q-P. It has pretty much, on black clearly visible ips glow and it's not very fast but never had dust and only some monitors with pixel failures. As i said Innolux panels have better quality as Samsung or AUO.

My XB323QKNV with Innolux panel had also no dust. The Sharp panel which is used for the FI27Q-X had many dust spots and i heared in forums a lot about the same problem.

I wouldnt touch this monitor anymore, because bgr is a big disadvantage for sharpness. The panel was pretty slow especially for 240 hz:

https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/4f8v3Mjl/gigabyte-aorus-fi27q-x/tables-max-large.jpg

For me it's a fake 240 hz monitor only a few transistions are good enough for 240 hz.

Even the 160 hz LG 34GN850 is better:

https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/g9aHzEgm/lg-34gn850-b/tables-max-large.jpg

For cheap made AUO, Samsung, BOE, CSOT, Sharp panels only brute force selection is working. No choice for someone who has no time, free money and nervs.

Even for me who is used too a huge panel lottery is it questionable to do further selection if the PG32UQX lottery is giving me 5 times in a row dust and in some cases pixel failures. It's a huge amount of wasted money for weeks. Even 4 PG32UQX i got at once are binding arround 14000 Euros. For the last 2 i bought i spend arround 7000 Euros. Still waiting for refund.

Maybe i will try one PG32UQX and G9 Neo. If it's also sucking im done with this until resellers with fast refund process and no aggressions because of many returns (even if it has obvious failures, many sellers are greedy* and want only sell even it's trash, so more than 5 per those sellers is risky) are offering them. Like Saturn and Mediamarkt in Germany.

*When you explain them the failures and send them photos of dust and pixel failures they are saying they have understanding that this unacceptable for such high prices. But you hear interlined they don't really care and it's all about earning money. I told them as a seller i wont sell such faulty products because nobody who spend 2000-3500 Euros will keep monitors with obvious pixel failures or dust. Even the halo effect or fans are unacceptable for most. One seller has 7 returned PG32UQX for sale . None from me.

One seller i returned G9 Neo, want "repair" it by swapping the panel (panel gamble again) at a service partner. And the monitor will likely have scratches (harsh handling) and marks because of opening the case.

Besides the panel is not available. You have to wait weeks and the return period is over. Maybe the monitor also makes popping noises afterwards or it made it already. I kicked the most G9 after seeing the panel defects, so warmup wasn't done after 10 minutes of use for Eizo test . Only the first one was tested by me about it's capabilities.

Maybe i gamble for a pixel failure free and homogen LG 32EP950. I like the blooming free, pretty sharp (compared with my 48" in 55" wrgb oled its much sharper) image even if brightness is pretty low.

Edit:

A 7th PG32UQX is clean, i think. I looked for every cm^2 2 times. Also from different angles.

Lol 7 x 3500 Euros, to get one without ****.

I would advice you to use a fibre cable and a different desk. I have a 15 meter hdmi 2.1 cable from CSL/Primewire (which really works with full bandwith, the china crap on amazon is not working, some only with hdmi 1.4, many with random disconnects and flickering) and put it on a small table in another room. So i have not remove one of the existent, flawless monitors to test it. I had to do this before and was much more angry if i got crap.

 

[Red_Negan]

I won't comment on the back and fourth, I will say that the dead/stuck pixel issues with Sharp, AUO is awful. I've had lots of FI27Q-X units that have this problem and the PG279QM too which was even worse, the replacement unit has also gone back due to Green pixels, loads of them like a starlight effect, it's horrid. I will prob go back to the AW2721D which due to a lack of sRGB mode which makes it the weakest of the 240hz displays for me, it at least has been clean from these issues from the units I've owned and used. AUO panels have always been the worst in my opinion, I've never had a unit without dead pixels and I've owned a lot of displays and had a lot on loan and at work.
It’s a shame because the FI27Q-X was a great display and the PG279QM has perfect features for my use.

 

[lugerfield]

What does lots mean? How many?

 

[nox_uk]

Whilst I do like the 21:9 ratio, I don’t think I’ll go that route again. It just not worth the lottery

 

[lugerfield]

If the monitor has no special features, it isn't worth any lottery. So stay with Lg panel monitors.

 

[guwange]

I won't comment on the back and fourth, I will say that the dead/stuck pixel issues with Sharp, AUO is awful. I've had lots of FI27Q-X units that have this problem and the PG279QM too which was even worse, the replacement unit has also gone back due to Green pixels, loads of them like a starlight effect, it's horrid. I will prob go back to the AW2721D which due to a lack of sRGB mode which makes it the weakest of the 240hz displays for me, it at least has been clean from these issues from the units I've owned and used. AUO panels have always been the worst in my opinion, I've never had a unit without dead pixels and I've owned a lot of displays and had a lot on loan and at work.
It’s a shame because the FI27Q-X was a great display and the PG279QM has perfect features for my use.

Thanks so much - that's really helpful feedback Makes feel like I've (hopefully) made the right choice ordering the AW2712D - even though I totally agree re the lack of an sRGB mode. Quite what Dell were thinking there, is anyone's guess (I've seen lots of people virtually begging Dell for a firmware update...so I have no idea why they remain so intransigent). They seem to claim adding an sRGB mode would impact FreeSync Premium Pro requirements on other monitors (like the S2721DGF), which already sounds like a bit of a stretch. But the AW2721D makes no mention of 'official' Freesync support in its specs, anyway.

Sucks that so many (potentially) great monitors seem so totally hamstrung by QC issues The PG279QM has a basically perfect feature set for my uses too. If the general consensus in this thread had been that the QC on that was a big improvement over the FI27Q-X, I'd almost certainly have found the extra cash and gone for it. But if anything, it almost sounds even worse!

The Odyssey G7 also seems to have had more than its fair share of issues...

 

[lugerfield]

If you want the FI72Q-X so much then do bruteforce selection. With this cheaper models it not a real problem. With insane expensive PG32UQX is hard to do in a short time.

4th G9 Neo. Also crap:

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/35086092/

 

[Red_Negan]

Thanks so much - that's really helpful feedback Makes feel like I've (hopefully) made the right choice ordering the AW2712D - even though I totally agree re the lack of an sRGB mode. Quite what Dell were thinking there, is anyone's guess (I've seen lots of people virtually begging Dell for a firmware update...so I have no idea why they remain so intransigent). They seem to claim adding an sRGB mode would impact FreeSync Premium Pro requirements on other monitors (like the S2721DGF), which already sounds like a bit of a stretch. But the AW2721D makes no mention of 'official' Freesync support in its specs, anyway.

Sucks that so many (potentially) great monitors seem so totally hamstrung by QC issues The PG279QM has a basically perfect feature set for my uses too. If the general consensus in this thread had been that the QC on that was a big improvement over the FI27Q-X, I'd almost certainly have found the extra cash and gone for it. But if anything, it almost sounds even worse!

The Odyssey G7 also seems to have had more than its fair share of issues...

I’ve never known Dell to add an sRGB mode to displays that have needed it. I personally think they can’t be bothered is what it comes down to. The panel it’s self is good, has the cleanest picture, the lack of grain really makes other monitors look hazy in comparison. Some users report visible left side backlight visibility, my previous unit had this although minor. I’ve not had dead/stuck pixels on an LG panel although they can happen I feel LG just has better QC than AUO and others. I also like Innolux panels for their QC.

The G7 I’ve not known many issues, I certainly don’t buy that 15 units had pixel defects that is more than likely OCD issues but I wouldn’t rule it out completely. It wouldn’t surprise me from AUO though. Out of 4 g7’s I’ve experienced only one had a single dead pixel.

 

[lugerfield]

Hdr is still broken with 1006.1 firmware on the G9 Neo. It's not only the dust. The monitor is entirely garbage. Mini led for SDR wow. Hdr looks washed out like a cheap hdr 400 monitor with bad, washed out colors with none hdr highlights . All flat. And i only tested youtube hdr content . No games where users reported the same experience .

4 G7 with only dead pixels. Hard to believe. Maybe you havent looked intensively for dust on white screen with increased brightness. Many users dont do it and then they see the dust in browser windows for example. If' its not in the middle, in the corners they will see it maybe after return period and then its to late .

LG has worlds better qc as AUO or Samsung.

 

[Red_Negan]

Mine is way more realistic than 15 units. I think you represent the extreme here, the type of person to return a hand made wooden table for imperfections.

as for checking I’d argue I’m more thorough than most.

 

[lugerfield]

Nope if i would looking for perfection. I would even return monitors for minor scratches on the case ,minor color tints or minor blb etc. .

I don't. The panel is most important component, it has to be without major flaws.

Dust inside panel below ag film is unacceptable. Even by manufacturer terms .

 

[guwange]

I’ve never known Dell to add an sRGB mode to displays that have needed it. I personally think they can’t be bothered is what it comes down to. The panel it’s self is good, has the cleanest picture, the lack of grain really makes other monitors look hazy in comparison. Some users report visible left side backlight visibility, my previous unit had this although minor. I’ve not had dead/stuck pixels on an LG panel although they can happen I feel LG just has better QC than AUO and others. I also like Innolux panels for their QC.

The G7 I’ve not known many issues, I certainly don’t buy that 15 units had pixel defects that is more than likely OCD issues but I wouldn’t rule it out completely. It wouldn’t surprise me from AUO though. Out of 4 g7’s I’ve experienced only one had a single dead pixel.

I'm sure you're right. I'm also pretty skeptical sRGB modes couldn't (fairly easily) be added if Dell had the desire. It's frustrating, because it's not something like re-working overdrive modes - that would presumably require a lot of very fine-tuning. As requests go, it feels like a pretty basic ask. Its abscence has also been flagged when it was was reviewed by TFTCentral, Rtings, Hardware Unboxed, etc...and the AW2721D even gets specifically name-checked in @PCM2's 'Taming the Wide Gamut...' article. I'm sure Dell have lost some sales as a result (when most of the 1440P 240Hz competition have sRGB modes of some description)...but perhaps Dell are banking on the fact the vast majority of potential buyers simply won't care or notice? Oh well...

The above aside...it really does sound great for my needs! The coating really sounds just what I'm after - as well as better QC, with (hopefully) no dead/stuck pixels this time! I've never owned an Innolux panel before - so that's also interesting to know for future reference.

To be honest, I've only quite casually followed the G7 feedback. It was always a screen I found interesting (especially when it first launched), but I never felt confident I could get over the curve or its VA-ness Granted, I've only ever had one VA panel before (so not really a fair sample) - but I really didn't get on with it. Then again, it was an AUO panel

Looking back, though, it sounds like quite a lot of the issues with the G7 were (generally) more firmware than QC-related.

 

[lugerfield]

Why are you so interested in a srgb mode?

For Windows you can cut down the color space via icc profile.

The G7 is crap. It has the same problems as G9 (scanlines, very noticable coilwhine, bad pixel rendering (fuzzy), coating is grainy, pretty much blb, color tints (especially nikotin yellow very often for Samsung sva), bad viewing angles, visible overshoot, vrr flickering). QC issues dust over dust + pixel failures (but it's allowed by pixel failure class 2).

 

[Red_Negan]

The G7 is solid although not perfect. Grainy is something the majority of screens have in common of varying degrees unless you go for something that uses a very light matte with a smooth finish. The AW2721D for example I'd say is borderline semi-gloss. The G7 is no more grainy than say the PG279QM at least they're on par so using the grain to single out the G7 is a bit odd. Interlacing patterns are also not unique to the G7/G9 but like I said far from perfect or ideal for some each to their own. I find the lack of sRGB support and hardware calibration support a bigger issue but monitor companies simply don't care.

@guwange

My fav aspect of the AW2721D has always been the screen presentation. The combination of slim bezels, coating with a super smooth finish really makes games like Red Dead 2 for example stand out, you can really see into the image so much better think a clean window vs one that is slightly hazy. I've always felt this adds to the text clarity too, finer lines are sharper and almost appear higher resolution than it actually is unlike say the G7 or even the PG279QM. The PG279QM is for me the perfect monitor in terms of complete features but is let down by QC and while the PG279QM isn't the worst coating out there, I could do with it being a bit cleaner. I made some impressions of it over at PCM. My comments on the AW2721D have been mixed mainly due to lack of standard gamut support though. I will say that the standard mode isn't terrible like say the S2721DGF for oversaturation I'd call it tastefully tuned and wooden, earth shades are still natural with most of the top-end extensions coming from the reds but again it doesn't go too far into overly tanned skin. I'd rather this tuning than say having full aRGB which makes trees, grass look like an acid trip.

I do overall prefer VA-type panels but for monitors, I feel IPS panels get more love from manufacturers as outside of the G7 panels have rarely evolved.

 

[lugerfield]

Solid flaws. It's unuseable. Especially because the insane coil whine.

The PG279QM has awful grainyness. All looks like below a soap film.

 

[lugerfield]

My ears for unusual fan noises and Eizo test for panel defects.

 

[guwange]

Why are you so interested in a srgb mode?

For Windows you can cut down the color space via icc profile.

A huge amount of applications aren't icc-aware, though - including games (which let's face it, are probably the main reason anyone would buy a 1440P 240Hz monitor in the first place).

So, if you're looking to clamp to sRGB across all applications, you basically only have three options: buy/use a monitor with an sRGB mode; use only AMD GPUs (which allow you to clamp to sRGB at driver-level); or, buy a monitor with a hardware LUT, and calibrate it yourself. Although a hardware LUT seems like a pretty rare feature on gaming-orientated displays, at least from what I've seen.

@guwange

My fav aspect of the AW2721D has always been the screen presentation. The combination of slim bezels, coating with a super smooth finish really makes games like Red Dead 2 for example stand out, you can really see into the image so much better think a clean window vs one that is slightly hazy. I've always felt this adds to the text clarity too, finer lines are sharper and almost appear higher resolution than it actually is unlike say the G7 or even the PG279QM. The PG279QM is for me the perfect monitor in terms of complete features but is let down by QC and while the PG279QM isn't the worst coating out there, I could do with it being a bit cleaner. I made some impressions of it over at PCM. My comments on the AW2721D have been mixed mainly due to lack of standard gamut support though. I will say that the standard mode isn't terrible like say the S2721DGF for oversaturation I'd call it tastefully tuned and wooden, earth shades are still natural with most of the top-end extensions coming from the reds but again it doesn't go too far into overly tanned skin. I'd rather this tuning than say having full aRGB which makes trees, grass look like an acid trip.

I do overall prefer VA-type panels but for monitors, I feel IPS panels get more love from manufacturers as outside of the G7 panels have rarely evolved.

I must go and check out your impressions over at PCM, as this is all super-helpful. I know exactly what you mean re the acid trip grass and foliage So, I'm glad to hear the tuning isn't that oversaturated! Despite ordering my AW2721D Prime, I don't think mine is due until more like 13th - so will be a few more days yet. Even though I've never used the PG279QM, it really does look awesome in terms of features - but at this point, I'm so fed up with QC issues, I feel like I'm definitely making the right call (even if there are some inevitable trade offs). The fact that the AW2721D's coating is so much lighter, is definitely a massive bonus (also reminds me I really need to get around to Red Dead 2 ).

I do still need to give VA another run out at some point. The only VA I had was a Z35P...which I think had quite a low contast ratio (compared to the best VA panels). Viewing angles were also pretty bad, even relative to other VAs, from what I've heard...so probably a pretty bad one to use as a barometer.

 

[lugerfield]

I know its only for desktop applications . But awareness about incorrect colors in games are not very common.
For me it looks not really bad if some colors are oversaturated.

I have the X34GS/AW3821DW which is running within full color space, only calibrated for D6500 and Gamma 2.2.

A bigger disadvantage for color are monitors with crappy inhomogen panels. With a huge yellow, brown, red, blue tint for example. You can calibrate this monitors as much as you want at one spot. It looks still awful. In many cases through calibration worse.

Massively oversaturated monitors i saw was the UP2716D for example if you are not limiting the color space.

I can't imagine why you get not disturbed by bgr, it's for me together with qc and bad response times (which are not suitable for 240 hz) the biggest disadvantage of the X27Q-X.

 

[guwange]

I know its only for desktop applications . But awareness about incorrect colors in games are not very common.
For me it looks not really bad if some colors are oversaturated.

I think it varies depending on the game. I think the oversaturated colours can make more subdued/atmospheric games look too cartoony. Equally, games that already have slightly over-hyped colours - can sometimes end up with 'compounded oversaturation', if played on a wide gamut monitor (with no clamp).

That said, having just read/watched @PCM2's article/video on the 'novideo_srgb' tool, I'm less concerned by this whole issue. For me, this is a real game-changer

I can't imagine why you get not disturbed by bgr, it's for me together with qc and bad response times (which are not suitable for 240 hz) the biggest disadvantage of the X27Q-X.

Like I said, BGR definitely isn't ideal. But I'd have been more than happy to live with it - even though, if I like the AW2721D (and the QC is there), I now won't have to But you really can't have it all at this price point...whether you go FI27Q-X, PG27QM, AW2721D, G7, etc, you'll be making some trade offs.

I don't find the fringing from BGR terribly distracting at 27" 1440P. I'm sure at a lower resolution/PPI, it would annoy me a lot more. I mean, even the 48" C1 uses a WBGR subpixel layout - so you get fringing on those even at chroma 4:4:4. Likewise, the 55" B7 I have connected to another system (WRGB layout) also has fringing at chroma 4:4:4. But the other advantages of OLED more than make up for this, for me.

I was planning to have the FI27Q-X and 48" C1 connected to the same PC....so, from a ClearType point of view, having two BGR screens (albeit one WBGR) might actually have made more sense!

 

[lugerfield]

The fan noises are horrible (i had to swap the fans, which is nothing i would recommened for a beginner, because you have to disassemble the G-Sync module and rewire the cables of the fan to make it fit for mini pwm instead of pico blade) and the panel response times are compared with LG Nanoips pretty slow and it has black smearing. Colors are looking washed out besides of hdr.

It's nothing i recommened for buying, especially if want to use only this monitor . The PG35VQ is only good (because there is nothing really better (the PG32UQX is in some regards better, but has worse blooming) in terms of hdr in the monitor sector) for hdr.

 

[lugerfield]

It's for me awful so i swapped the fans of PG35VQ . The PG27UQ is louder, but the parasitic noises (rattling and brushing) are the same.

I would reccomened AW3821DW or Acer X34GS. Both excellent monitors if you got a good panel .