Monitor quality control...is it actually getting worse? (Aorus rant)

[PCM2]

@lugerfield

You'd really crossed the line with your sneaky little edits. I've given you far more respect than you deserve. I see you added the following:

"Good for me i know now a lot about pcms characteristics. Before i read some of his posts here, i thought he is a more competent person. Especially his association with baddass is disgusting. Barely seen a person who is more incompetent."

You've more than outstayed your welcome here. You've provided nothing useful to those reading this thread, you've insulted long-established members who have given a lot to this community and have tried to pick apart my own reviews by claiming I haven't covered certain elements which I have (evidence linked to in my posts). I used to post here quite often and enjoyed engaging with people from time to time, but there are certain toxic timewasters like you who make this an unpleasant place to visit at times. The only characteristic about me you might have uncovered is that I don't appreciate misinformed bullsh**ers who go way out of their depth, insult people and waste their time. The fact you haven't worked out who Baddass is and somehow think any association I have with him is unsavoury is frankly laughable. You appear to have mental health issues which this thread will not assist with.

You're wrong:
VA's doubled to trippled contrast over IPS helps exactly most in tiny details with both black/dark and white/bright immediately next to each others.
For those backlight zone control can't do anything to improve contrast, until we start talking about like 100000 zone backlight.

Exactly. I've explained that to him but he prefers to ignore that and insult me and others instead.

Really sorry, I think I must've read past this earlier.

I do feel bad that I've (inadvertently) created a bit of a monster starting this thread It really wasn't my intention.

I don't mind if any mods want to shut this down now. I think its probably outstayed its welcome. In amidst the chaos, I have had some useful feedback So, fingers crossed my next monitor will fare better better in terms of dead/stuck pixels.

And if it doesn't, I'll just have to get over it. First world problems, as they say...

That's alright, I know you didn't intend for this thread to spiral in the way it has. It was a bit entertaining at first I suppose, but it has long since run its course.

I'm going to order an AW2721D tonight, and will report back. No sRGB mode, and Dell don't sound as though they're especially interested in adding one via firmware. I see the MAG274QRF-QD now has an sRGB mode via a firmware update. But then, that's a AUO panel - and I think I'd rather stick to LG this time. Maybe I'll get lucky, and Nvidia will go on to add an sRGB clamp at driver-level (like AMD).

I look forward to your thoughts on that. As you're sensitive to screen surface texture, you may well really like that one. It's very good in that respect and gives a strong all-round performance. I know somebody posted about it on my own forum after trying dozens of other displays and finally decided the Dell was "the one" for them. Hopefully it is for you as well.

 

[FoxEye]

Monitor quality still in the toilet?

Eizo need to enter the market and show how it’s done.

In the LCD era, when has it ever not been ("in the toilet")?

The problems with LCD have been there since the beginning and basically never improved. Including lack of QC not directly related to the tech itself. But LCD in general have been such a lottery, whether you get a decent one or a crap one that you have to return.

Back in 2012 I had to return two Dell U2312HM before my 3rd was half decent. It's always been like this, no?

 

[Baddass]

I had hundreds of monitors. Not only 75.

"hundreds" now? it gets better each time

I need no money. So i dont place reviews. I write in forums if im in the mood. The testing is for myself to find the best of any new monitor series, with better specs.

you don't have to do it for money, you could do it for the love of it? or to share the knowledge that clearly only you have. everyone else is wrong as you've said.

Your thread is right, sadly it's attracting some guys who have no idea of qc/monitor issues but they think they have.

you're talking about yourself there, right?

Sadly not many users have deep experiences with a big range of monitors.

As i said before in this thread, you have no knowledge about my experience or knowledge.

Good for me i know now a lot about pcms characteristics. Before i read some of his posts here, i thought he is a more competent person. Especially his association with baddass is disgusting. Barely seen a person who is more incompetent.

the only thing i have ever said to you in this thread is that i don't believe you've used or tested all these monitors you claim to have had. it's not believable in my opinion.

and that even if you had, there is no way they have all had real problems. I've never denied there are sometimes QC issues, that's the nature of the market. but i completely disagree with your constant posting on this forum in different threads about how every screen out there has a massive problem and is broken. It's all you ever talk about. There's no "dust lottery" like you've claimed. the fact it's not widely covered by reviewers and other users is not because every other single person is wrong and you're right, it's because it's not a widespread issue. It might affect some units but not to the drastic extent you are implying here.

You're evaluation of these screens is completely over the top, OCD or unrealistic and is of no help to anyone (actually, maybe you shouldn't write your own reviews).

how does any of that make me "incompetent"?

 

[Baddass]

In the LCD era, when has it ever not been ("in the toilet")?

The problems with LCD have been there since the beginning and basically never improved. Including lack of QC not directly related to the tech itself. But LCD in general have been such a lottery, whether you get a decent one or a crap one that you have to return.

Back in 2012 I had to return two Dell U2312HM before my 3rd was half decent. It's always been like this, no?

now THAT is a more realistic experience of someone who had a bad sample and a QC problem. not the norm by any stretch, but it can happen, but sometimes maybe you might have problems with a couple of samples and then get a good one by the 3rd. See the difference there Lugerfield between that, and you're "I had 50 samples of one screen and they were all broken" nonsense?

 

[lugerfield]

@PCM2

I gave information about qc issues you dont care about as a reviewer. All my information are right. You provided none. Only qc is a minefield. Wow. Who didnt know this? And your baddass given no information about anything, only attacking me .

And you review information are still uncomplete. I won't repeat it. Read my posts regarding it. I wont argue with you. If you won't see your mistakes its senseless. Instead you are saying i have mental health problem, when i criticise your questionable reviews. No level i will discuss on.

@FoxEye

Today you have to do much more effort to get a monitor without qc issues, especially if it's using no LG panel. Maybe JOLED too. I had only 1 JOLED with a pixel failure but no dust.

 

[JediFragger]

You've more than outstayed your welcome here.

I think this is unnecessarily harsh tbf, it's clear you don't see eye-to-eye with this fella but I can't see that he's causing any major harm? Maybe just use the 'ignore' feature if you don't wish to see his posts? You can choose not to engage with him whatsoever. Just an idea.

 

[PCM2]

@PCM2

I gave information about qc issues you dont care about as a reviewer. All my information are right. You provided none. Only qc is a minefield. Wow. Who didnt know this? And you baddass given no information about anything, only attacking me .

And you review information are still uncomplete. I won't repeat it. Read my posts regarding it.

I was referring to examples of 'haloing', which I did provide and specifically linked to from my review of the PG32UQX. QC is a minefield. That's the crux of this thread. But you claiming you've had issues with hudreds of monitors and many samples of one unit... And claiming reviewers and most users don't comment on or notice these things... Well, the problem here isn't everyone else; it's you.

I think this is unnecessarily harsh tbf, it's clear you don't see eye-to-eye with this fella but I can't see that he's causing any major harm? Maybe just use the 'ignore' feature if you don't wish to see his posts? You can choose not to engage with him whatsoever. Just an idea.

I don't. If somebody tears into your work which you're very passionate about and starts insulting you and your friends. And shows a frankly untenable attitude. Yet you sit back and take it - well that's your choice. It's not mine. If you read my posts I was being very polite initially and trying to sort through his points, but there's only so much I'm willing to accept. I don't suffer fools gladlly.

 

[PCM2]

.

 

[lugerfield]

Yes, you are right it's my problem with my self paid units i tested. I test monitors completly and take no dust/pixel failures/bad color tints/extended blb/coilwhine/ugly fan noises etc. . But not everyone isn't noticing qc issues like this. One of this persons has started this thread.

Btw i don't think you will take such issues if you had bought such expensive monitors. You can talk tough if you don't buy and keep some of this monitors by your own.

Btw learn to take critics and improof your work. Only way you will learn your failures. And learn to respect others who have more experience than you have. I'm also passionated about monitors, thats why i tried to teach you about failures of some monitors you reviewed.

There enough insufficient reviews people need really good reviews.

@guwange

Nobody can do the panel lottery for you. I would buy the LG 27GP850 (returning is on Amazon without costs, even as a foreigner; here for contact the support). The fan of the AW2721D is an additional risk for failure and the blb is very bad on AW2721D's. The risk is high you will get crap.

@badass

Look for his reviewing history:

https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/archive/

I had much more monitor models and i had much more than one review sample . I began intensive testing when the first wqhd ips 144 hz panels of AUO were released. In 2015. Before this i had also several tn/va/ips gaming monitors . Pcmonitors is mostly testing the cheaper models. He had not reviewed the G9 or G9 Neo or newer 34" high refresh nano ips models. Only the slow 34GK950F.

Maybe his website isnt very popular for manufacturers, perhaps to much critic even his reviews are missing some points. And the audience is to small even if he would offer advertising "reviews" like most other "reviewers".

Edit 2:

@PCM2

Which manufacturers want only work with influencers together?

Why do not buy monitors your own? Within Eu law you could easily cancel your order. Is it so complicated if the U.K. left the EU?

@Baddass

Only allegation you have to make?

Sadly i tested all this monitors multiple times, because im someone who wants always the best of the best at every time for any purpose so i have multiple screens. 2 x Oled (one G1 and C1) and AW3821DW/X34GS and now im searching the best possible hdr mini led monitor for brighter hdr purposes. If dual cell, micro led or mini led with more zones or/and better dimming algorithm as gaming monitor appears i will buy this if its below 5000 Euros.

@FoxyEye

Dell is up to now swapping units which have defects with collection for 3 years after purchase date. But consider it's posible you will get a heavy used refurbished unit from another customer (some with panel defects). Especially if the monitor is using an AUO panel like for example the S2716DG or S2719DGF.

 

[JediFragger]

I don't. If somebody tears into your work which you're very passionate about and starts insulting you and your friends.

Ok fair enough, have to admit I've not read much of the back and forth. I suggest you stick him on ignore anyhow, for an easier life if nothing else!

 

[PCM2]

Yes, you are right it's my problem with my self paid units i tested. I test monitors completly and take no dust/pixel failures/bad color tints/extended blb/coilwhine/ugly fan noises etc. . But not everyone isn't noticing qc issues like this. Someone of this persons has started this thread.

Btw i don't think you will take such issues if you had bought such expensive monitors. You can talk tough if you don't buy and keep some of this monitors by your own.

Btw learn to take critics and improof your work. Only way you will learn your failures.

I receive feedback on my work often, thanks. That includes useful critical feedback which I have used to implement changes. I welcome that. But you should read the earlier points I made about what is reasonable to include in a review. I point out a lot of intricacies which most people won't notice as it is. I am not going to take that to frankly insane levels, putting people off monitors with issues some units suffer from and others don't.

I spend a lot of my time engaging with users about monitors I have and haven't reviewed and know when people have genuine concerns. I sometimes pass such feedback onto manufacturers and it certainly shapes what I recommend to people. There's nothing I gain from recommending products I don't think most people will enjoy. I can and do empathise with reasonable QC concerns, but also understand how to balance that out as a reviewer and enthusiast. Baddass does the same, which is why I took issue with your patronising attitude towards him.

 

[guwange]

That's alright, I know you didn't intend for this thread to spiral in the way it has. It was a bit entertaining at first I suppose, but it has long since run its course.

Ironically, I did actually consider registering and making a thread on your forum - but in my infinite wisdom, posted here instead

I look forward to your thoughts on that. As you're sensitive to screen surface texture, you may well really like that one. It's very good in that respect and gives a strong all-round performance. I know somebody posted about it on my own forum after trying dozens of other displays and finally decided the Dell was "the one" for them. Hopefully it is for you as well.

Thanks so much! I will definitely post some thoughts (although maybe best if I move those to your board this time!). I think it definitely seems to have most of what I want on paper. It's always a trade off with these things...and none of the 1440P 240Hz screens have every feature/trait I'd ideally want. But fingers crossed this one is a keeper.

Back in 2012 I had to return two Dell U2312HM before my 3rd was half decent. It's always been like this, no?

I remember having one of those. Thankfully, my first sample had no dead/stuck pixels. BLB was pretty bad, though. I did end up keeping it...IPS screens with input lag that low were really unusual back then. And I needed a small-ish rotatable screen for retro games.

 

[Baddass]

Btw learn to take critics and improof your work. Only way you will learn your failures. And learn to respect others who have more experience than you have. I'm also passionated about monitors, thats why i tried to teach you about failures of some monitors you reviewed.

There enough insufficient reviews people need really good reviews.

how condescending can you get?! You think your 6 years experience of supposedly buying and returning “hundreds” of monitors means you know what you’re talking about? It doesn’t, it just proves the exact opposite given your insistence on these supposed problems that only you can see in this ridiculous volume you’re talking about. It’s laughable. And PCM has had many more years experience than you have in this area.

ps and I still don’t believe you’ve really had that many screens, you’re making it all up to troll

 

[FoxEye]

I remember having one of those. Thankfully, my first sample had no dead/stuck pixels. BLB was pretty bad, though. I did end up keeping it...IPS screens with input lag that low were really unusual back then. And I needed a small-ish rotatable screen for retro games.

I'm still using that 3rd half-decent one on one of my rigs

The first two got returned not for stuck pixels but because the corners and edges shone with the full power of the sun... 3rd unit was a lot better in that regard (BLB).

I seem to remember they were quite cheap, tho! And Dell's returns policy back then was awesome. No quibble swaps with free collection and delivery. Not sure if they still do that.

 

[PCM2]

Lugerfield - stop with the patronising edits. My audience if far from small and I'm offered many more models than I'm able to review. If I review something, that review is very easy for people to find and appreciate. Some manufacturers will only work with "influencers" who post glowing reviews, that much is true. I have the means to buy samples, but prefer working with manufacturers who want to actively work with me and appreciate my work. I've pointed out umpteen times I gather feedback about models I don't review as well as those I do. I feel sorry for you, I genuinely do. You seem to live in a world of constant misery with all these monitors you've tried. Back in the real world I am exposed to a great volume of balanced feedback. This doesn't just come from one disproportionately negative individual, it's a broad spread of tastes and sensitivities.

@PCM2

Which manufacturers want only work with influencers together?

Why do not buy monitors your own? Within Eu law you could easily cancel your order. Is it so complicated if the U.K. left the EU?

See above. I've now bolded key pieces of information for you. I don't have the time or inclination to purchase monitors myself and juggle with returns when there are manufacturers willing to provide samples and are actively seeking my feedback on the samples they offer. I have a good working relationship with many manufacturers and their PR companies and they offer me more than I have the time to thoroughly review as it is.

 

[Baddass]

l
@badass

Look for his reviewing history:

https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/archive/

I had much more monitor models and i had much more than one review sample . I began intensive testing when the first wqhd ips 144 hz panels of AUO were released. In 2015. Before this i had also several tn/va/ips gaming monitors . Pcmonitors is mostly testing the cheaper models. He had not reviewed the G9 or G9 Neo or newer 34" high refresh nano ips models. Only the slow 34GK950F.

Maybe his website isnt very popular for manufacturers, perhaps to much critic even his reviews are missing some points. And the audience is to small even if he would offer advertising "reviews" like most other "reviewers".

Stop talking crap. You haven’t used or tested all these screens you’re claiming to have owned. It’s obvious to everyone. Stop talking nonsense

 

[PCM2]

Thanks so much! I will definitely post some thoughts (although maybe best if I move those to your board this time!). I think it definitely seems to have most of what I want on paper. It's always a trade off with these things...and none of the 1440P 240Hz screens have every feature/trait I'd ideally want. But fingers crossed this one is a keeper.

Fingers crossed for you. Hopefully your unit will be a good one so you don't need to try your luck with 100 others.

 

[FoxEye]

See above. I've now bolded key pieces of information for you. I don't have the time or inclination to purchase monitors myself and juggle with returns when there are manufacturers willing to provide samples and are actively seeking my feedback on the samples they offer. I have a good working relationship with many manufacturers and their PR companies and they offer me more than I have the time to thoroughly review as it is.

This does seem to be the norm, with most mainstream/popular reviewers being sent samples.

Unfortunately it means you always run the risk of having so-called "golden samples"/cherry picked units sent to reviewers. Perhaps properly factory calibrated; no doubt a prime example of the model and not one with any obvious defect.

There's no way around this, of course, and I'm sure most are aware of this potential for abuse by the manufacturers.

In an ideal world (tho perhaps not realistic) reviewers would go to their local store and pick one off the shelves at random.

 

[PCM2]

This does seem to be the norm, with most mainstream/popular reviewers being sent samples.

Unfortunately it means you always run the risk of having so-called "golden samples"/cherry picked units sent to reviewers. Perhaps properly factory calibrated; no doubt a prime example of the model and not one with any obvious defect.

There's no way around this, of course, and I'm sure most are aware of this potential for abuse by the manufacturers.

In an ideal world (tho perhaps not realistic) reviewers would go to their local store and pick one off the shelves at random.

In practice the manufacturers I work with do not "cherry pick" samples at all. I mean, they usually check to see if they turn on but they're not perfect or unrepresentative of the average retail sample in any way. I've actually had my fair share of problematic samples in terms of uniformity and calibration. Sometimes physical damage as well. New samples are usually sent pretty much fresh from the production line. And if I'm not one of the first to review something, it might've been passed around and abused by many couriers. Or other reviewers, used at events etc. So even if it was once 'perfect', it isn't by the time I get it.

But as I said I gather feedback beyond this, I don't just rely on my own experiences with one sample when recommending products to people. Whilst that may sometimes be all I can rely on initially, longer term there's no benefit to me in recommending monitors which people are unlikely to get a decent sample of or be satisfied with.

 

[guwange]

Fingers crossed for you. Hopefully your unit will be a good one so you don't need to try your luck with 100 others.

I've been slightly worried about even ordering a third monitor from Rainforest (although thankfully, I do order a lot and don't normally return much). I'm sure they'd be sending the heavies over if I even got to five!

I'm still using that 3rd half-decent one on one of my rigs

The first two got returned not for stuck pixels but because the corners and edges shone with the full power of the sun... 3rd unit was a lot better in that regard (BLB).

I seem to remember they were quite cheap, tho! And Dell's returns policy back then was awesome. No quibble swaps with free collection and delivery. Not sure if they still do that.

I probably should have kept mine, to be honest. After this whole debacle is sorted, I'm actually also in the market for a rotatable 1080P 24-27" screen for my arcade stuff. I mainly use BVM CRTS these days, but I also need something widescreen (that ideally goes higher than 720P/1080i).

Most of the decent 1080P screens I'm seeing don't seem to have rotatable stands...so, that's another £90+ just for a decent stand

You're right - I'm pretty sure the U2312HM was a really good price. I have vague memories of paying around £120-125 for mine (edit: ok, it was actually £185. My memory clearly sucks!). I'll probably end up spending most of that just on a stand!

I guess I'll find out soon enough what Dell's return policy is like Well, hopefully not! I think it's supposedly still decent for their higher-end screens/Alienware models (at least in the UK). But I imagine it would be a lot worse for anything priced like the U2312HM now.