More proof of aliens

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Angilion said:
He was an explorer. That doesn't mean he thought ancient alien artefacts were in the cave. Do you have any evidence that he did?
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This is what I actually wrote. It is different to what you are implying.

esmozz said:
Finally, believers in aliens or ancient civilisations may be in good company. After he came back from the moon, Neil Armstrong went on an expedition to Ecuador to find a lost trove of gold tablets, purporting to contain ancient inscriptions describing an advanced civilisation here on earth. He obviously thought there was something in it.
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Stan Hall, the leader of the expedition, was well aware of the controversy surrounded the caves and had in fact met Von Daniken. I imagine it probably came up in conversation with Armstrong at some point. Especially since they went to those caves precisely because they were described in Von Danikens book. After the expedition Armstrong stated that they found the caves to be entirely natural in origin. Suggesting that at some point considered that they might not be.
 
dowie said:
It is utterly dumb, religious people at best have a massive blindspot after being indoctrinated at a young age or are just plain thick.
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It must be nice to feel so superior, unfortunately it just comes across as ignorant. Which does your arguments no credit. I'm not religious myself, but tend to have a little more respect for other peoples beliefs, especially in matters of faith. You should try it.

You've written a load of questions there, all of which I could answer I don't know to, which still would'nt prove I was wrong. At this point I don't expect you to understand that. You also don't seem to be reading what I have written, instead preferring to argue against a position you seem to have constructed partly in your head.

I'll repost the quote I made of what I have actually said to help you.

esmozz said:
I'm not saying its 100% Aliens, however one explanation (or theory) which fits the bill is technology far in advance of ours. And a technology far in advance of ours leads where?
Also, I'm entirely open to other more mundance explanations. I have no particularly strong feelings about it either way - apart from finding the whole thing interesting.

Nonetheless, I maintain that one possible 'hypothesis' is the existance of a technology far in advance of what I, certainly, know of.

I'm open to the possibility it could be alien tech. I'm open to the possiblity it could be secret military testing. Or mass hysteria. It is possible to consider all three as explanations.

This is the nub of it. IF they saw an actual craft or not. I cannot prove they did either way. However I do think they are credible witnesses and if they did it was something very unusual.
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I am asserting that alien tech is a possibilty given the highly unusual nature of the events and at the same time accepting the possibilty of other more mundane solutions. Your position seems to be 100% anything but, despite the highly unusual nature of the encounter. Either way this has been done to death now and we're just going round in circles.
 
esmozz said:
I am asserting that alien tech is a possibilty given the highly unusual nature of the events and at the same time accepting the possibilty of other more mundane solutions. Your position seems to be 100% anything but, despite the highly unusual nature of the encounter. Either way this has been done to death now and we're just going round in circles.
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It will continue to go round in circles ad nauseam, because you are not engaged in an open-minded discussion which explores all logical possibilities in search of the truth, you are purely fighting defensiveness and egoism. If I were you, I would spend your time elsewhere, as I shall.
 
esmozz said:
It must be nice to feel so superior, unfortunately it just comes across as ignorant. Which does your arguments no credit. I'm not religious myself, but tend to have a little more respect for other peoples beliefs, especially in matters of faith. You should try it.
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There isn't anything ignorant about it I'm aware religions exist and enough details of the main ones to have an opinion there, I don't see any need in this context to have any respects for the beliefs themselves. That isn't an argument from ignorance it is just calling out unsubstantiated beliefs/fantasy stories for what they are. Do you have respect for scientology? They very much believe in aliens at the higher levels.

I can respect that some individual has beliefs and might be sensitive about them but in a conversation like this then frankly I'm not fussed, I was using it to illustrate the similarities with what you were doing here when you made a reference to "science" and pointing out is is more akin to religion.

I am asserting that alien tech is a possibilty given the highly unusual nature of the events and at the same time accepting the possibilty of other more mundane solutions. Your position seems to be 100% anything but, despite the highly unusual nature of the encounter. Either way this has been done to death now and we're just going round in circles.
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Previously you were calling it a theory and claiming it was "science", you've still not provided any grounds for the possibility. My position is that I'm open to ideas but I'd like them to have some basis/argument for them not just pure fantasy stuff like this.
 
enkoda said:
So basically the new boy gets pranked - make sure he isn't carrying weapons to avoid any harm or damage, convince him there's a UFO, then round it off by mocking him mercilessly on his return.
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To be fair, you have very selectively quoted an article out of context to fit your narrative.

Also, I'm pretty sure USN carrier battle groups don't routinely prank their pilots by sending them on comedy combat intercepts. And then post it on the internet. It would be incredibly stupid and dangerous.

enkoda said:
Here's a plausible scenario - the technology used in those craft is top secret and the manufacturers don't want to divulge their research.
Until you've proven that this isn't the case, "alien tech" theories remain pure fantasy.
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Yes, you may well be right. But there is a logical fallacy there, its not one or the other. At a given level of knowledge of the event, both can be possible.

To put it another way, if I were to prove without a shadow of doubt that it was not secret military tech - it would not mean it was alien tech, it would not mean it was not. It would simply mean it was not secret military tech.
 
Lysander said:
It will continue to go round in circles ad nauseam, because you are not engaged in an open-minded discussion which explores all logical possibilities in search of the truth, you are purely fighting defensiveness and egoism. If I were you, I would spend your time elsewhere, as I shall.
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Err, okay. Likewise.

Right I'm done here, this has been done to death.
 
esmozz said:
To be fair, you have very selectively quoted an article out of context to fit your narrative.

Also, I'm pretty sure USN carrier battle groups don't routinely prank their pilots by sending them on comedy combat intercepts. And then post it on the internet. It would be incredibly stupid and dangerous.
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Maybe it was a one-off, who knows? Like you said, even if it was a prank, the authorities would undoubtedly deny any involvement so we're back to square one.
But it still remains a more plausible explanation because it doesn't require a belief in magic, gods, unicorns, Bigfoot, aliens or alien ghosts.

esmozz said:
Yes, you may well be right. But there is a logical fallacy there, its not one or the other. At a given level of knowledge of the event, both can be possible.

To put it another way, if I were to prove without a shadow of doubt that it was not secret military tech - it would not mean it was alien tech, it would not mean it was not. It would simply mean it was not secret military tech.
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You would be correct but I'm sure I never stated it was one or the other - if I did I shouldn't have, just as you've pointed out.

However, we have a plethora of evidence where secret military tech has been kept hidden from the public, whereas we don't have *any* evidence of aliens or alien tech. To quote a great man: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

On that basis aliens, alien tech, and (sadly) alien ghosts can be dismissed.
 
That's definitely alien, whether it's actual aliens, alien artificial intelligence or alien reverse engineering. What's not going to happen is as the op suggested disclosure soon; disclosure has happened many times, in 1982 some investigators applied the latest technology to disprove Billy Mier but couldn't, in 2006 Leslie Kean wrote a best selling NYTimes book which basically said the overwhelming body of evidence suggests we can't rule out alien visitation. Now we have the US Navy tracking UFOs with advanced radar and visual confirmation from pilots over many days at sea. Complete with a plain clothes agency taking away all the evidence and having them sign NDAs. This story was leaked over 5 years ago, here's a summary of the evidence, or for those who don't like to read here's a mini documentary and a recorded interview with the pilot in command.
 
BlueMerle said:
Couldn't have said it better myself.

The OP's entire premise is based on an assumption that he wants to be true. That life, in his case intelligent life, exists beyond the Earth. It's an assumption, nothing more.
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My 2P.... It is pretty absurd to think that there ISNT intelligent life somewhere other than earth ..... However whether or not it will ever be possible for them to visit us or vice versa is a whole other problem and sadly (or possibly thankfully) this is a much longer shot imo

Hasn't methane been detected on Mars? IF there is any form of life even microscopic , or if it can be proven there has ever been life on Mars even if not any more the surely that adds some weight to the likelihood of extra terrestrial life?
Of course I suppose it is feasible that an asteroid from mars seeded life on earth I guess.... Which would mean ultimately they came from the same place and so only really 1 .biogenesis event

In truth I suspect we will never know. I choose to have faith other life exists.if not it is quite sad given on a cosmic scale all life on earth will be gone in a blink
 
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ritcH said:
That's definitely alien
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If the crewmen featured in that docu were made to signs Naval NDAs that they shall never talk about the event, then why are they going on a TV show talking about the events? Also I find it hard to believe that a naval sub also in the same region could not see the objects on their highly advanced radar systems, nor could the hawk in the air providing radar telemetry yet the Nimitz could and the crew in the fighters obviously saw them physically. I'd be more inclined to believe the NImitz was subjected to a top secret test exercise since it was already on a training mission carrying no live payloads to fire with. Ranks higher up the chain choreographed this and as soon as the incident was over swooped in to confiscate the data recorders and have the crew sign NDAs

bigmike20vt said:
Hasn't methane been detected on Mars? IF there is any form of life even microscopic , or if it can be proven there has ever been life on Mars even if not any more the surely that adds some weight to the likelihood of extra terrestrial life?
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There is absolutely no doubt that non intelligent life exists in our solar system other than on Earth. It's intelligent life that's open to mixed debate, with both sides healthily valid.

Methane has been detected on Mars but natural conditions can produce Methane as well. NASA's Insight mission has recently detected active Earthquakes on Mars. And orbiter images reveal active landscape movement on the surface with ice at the poles.

Take note though that Mars was once like Earth and it stayed like that for millions of years before solar winds stripped away its atmosphere.

So if life thrived on Mars back then, then evidence will be below the surface which is why NASA will be sending new missions for that purpose over the next decade.

Venus was also once in a much better state (20-50 degree surface temps) for 3 billion years before all the water evaporated based on recent NASA climate simulations. Also recently it turns out some of Jupiter's moons may have conditions suitable enough that could support life as well.

So we have at least one other planet excluding Earth and a few moons that definitely had the right conditions to harbour life, and today may still harbour some form of life under the their surface.

If near future exploration missions prove conditions are right and that life is found (some NASA scientists think we will discover life on Mars during the next mission) then this will change the entire outlook on how life survives in the Universe.

It's worth keeping in mind that 470 million years ago something big crashed into the asteroid belt hurling lots of space rock in our direction and this allowed for a greater biodiversity on Earth. A whole host of natural events lead to randomness and offer a chance for something to just happen. Earth has had a number of extinction level events in its past and we are long overdue another. It just so happens we're in a region of the solar system that is heavily protected by two gas giants redirecting the bulk of the cosmic mess away from us, but big rocks don't always obey gravitational pulls to the T...
 
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We still use toilet paper to wipe our butts clean after a poop, why is it difficult to imagine a civilisation thousands of years more advanced than us has developed tech to make navigating the cosmos effortless ?
 
mrk said:
If the crewmen featured in that docu were made to signs Naval NDAs that they shall never talk about the event, then why are they going on a TV show talking about the events? Also I find it hard to believe that a naval sub also in the same region could not see the objects on their highly advanced radar systems, nor could the hawk in the air providing radar telemetry yet the Nimitz could and the crew in the fighters obviously saw them physically. I'd be more inclined to believe the NImitz was subjected to a top secret test exercise since it was already on a training mission carrying no live payloads to fire with. Ranks higher up the chain choreographed this and as soon as the incident was over swooped in to confiscate the data recorders and have the crew sign NDAs
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In a first, the US Navy itself has confirmed this happened, I guess those who have come forward felt it was such a life altering experience that it was wrong to cover it up. Clearly many more have not come forward. Apparently Harvey Weinstein used NDAs to stop women he raped from coming forward but they didn't keep quiet either! Humans huh!?

I think the naval sub didn't spot the larger craft that was thought to be underwater on its sonar. The visual encounter was with the smaller tic-tac shaped object, but before the pilot started to track that he/she was looking at the craft just below the waves. I'm not exactly sure which radars did or didn't pick up these UFOs, although the details are in the links shared. I've been following this stuff for decades, it's not a surprise anymore so I don't pour over it. Actually this was the first UFO story I've read about for 5-8 years! It's a good one though, also my experience makes me totally unsurprised to see how little it was reported or its effect on minds stuck in the dominant paradigm.
 
bigmike20vt said:
My 2P.... It is pretty absurd to think that there ISNT intelligent life somewhere other than earth ..... However whether or not it will ever be possible for them to visit us or vice versa is a whole other problem and sadly (or possibly thankfully) this is a much longer shot imo

Hasn't methane been detected on Mars? IF there is any form of life even microscopic , or if it can be proven there has ever been life on Mars even if not any more the surely that adds some weight to the likelihood of extra terrestrial life?
Of course I suppose it is feasible that an asteroid from mars seeded life on earth I guess.... Which would mean ultimately they came from the same place and so only really 1 .biogenesis event

In truth I suspect we will never know. I choose to have faith other life exists.if not it is quite sad given on a cosmic scale all life on earth will be gone in a blink
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I agree. It's highly unlikely that there isn't intelligent life somewhere else in the Universe. But at the end of the day it's nothing more than an assumption. A guess. There is zero evidence to support that claim.

Now factor in the absurd likelihood that this intelligent life has mastered space travel, something we know to be all but impossible, (I'm not talking about going to our moon or even Mars, I'm talking about going to the stars.) and you begin to get a sense of the absurdity of the premise.

It's just not reasonably possible. Regardless of how advanced a civilization is. Space travel is beyond us... and them.
 
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