More PS3's sold than the 360 in Europe

lol if im wrong then shoot me. i cant see things getting much better at all really. hopefully the standard of the poor games will rise but the AAA titles im just not sure about. the cell is great and they might well tap more power from it, but it's let down by the gpu. with multi platform games when it comes down to it, it always ended up in a graphical debate and the ps3 versions are pretty much all equal or end off worse. its been like that for well over a year now. Now i know all about the wonderful promises of things changing when the ps3 becomes the lead platform but when is that actually going to happen? i cant see the balance tipping in favour of sony as much as people would like to think, now. sony may well have a 10 year expected life span, but by year 6 i bet another xbox is out and by that point - its not really going to matter. MS would then have a more powerful and easier console to program for. that isn't good for sony.

if sony are going to pull it, i believe they are going to do it by being completely original which isnt somethign they've been too hot at in the past lol

Surely multi platform games are the worst to consider though - all devs are concerned is getting it out working , not actually streamlining to each consoles best capabilities (imo of course)

I know its a lot harder to compare but I personally think the full GT5 will be easily comparable with Forza3 or whatever on the X360 at the time, and the same with other genre of games

Dont get me wrong maybe some aspects of one version will be much better (lets say lighting and effects) where as physics etc will be better on the other one - but there will be marked differences/improvements

Of course it would help the PS3 if it was the lead console of choice for most independant devs but that wont happen with the overall sales figures still heavily in MS's favour (even if Sony are catching up)

I think you are wrong with BC only costing "a few quid" as Im sure the savings on not having that part of the production line working is worth a pretty penny - plus the PS3 has sold outstandingly well since it was removed (although this is only a byproduct admittedly)
 
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Surely multi platform games are the worst to consider though - all devs are concerned is getting it out working , not actually streamlining to each consoles best capabilities (imo of course)

I know its a lot harder to compare but I personally think the full GT5 will be easily comparable with Forza3 or whatever on the X360 at the time, and the same with other genre of games

Dont get me wrong maybe some aspects of one version will be much better (lets say lighting and effects) where as physics etc will be better on the other one - but there will be marked differences/improvements


well i hope so. gt5p is already looking VERY good, i cant deny that. but from what a lot of people are saying, that have a lot of work to do on the physics before it catches up with forza2. it's already the case now where forza has the better scenery and physics and gt5p has the better (almost stunning) cars. what makes the better game is down to the individual but i dont think there will be one clear winner. thats not good when forza2's already been out for 11 months and counting lol

Of course it would help the PS3 if it was the lead console of choice for most independant devs but that wont happen with the overall sales figures still heavily in MS's favour (even if Sony are catching up)

thats another worrying problem. it might not happen untill late in the ps3's cycle. hopefully for sony's sake thats before the next xbox arrives.
 
Hmmm i wouldn't say Forza 2 had better scenery than gt5 P , honestly thought forza 2 was a dissapointment graphically, i have both and i much prefer prologue.
 
lol if im wrong then shoot me. i cant see things getting much better at all really. hopefully the standard of the poor games will rise but the AAA titles im just not sure about. the cell is great and they might well tap more power from it, but it's let down by the gpu.

I'm still in disbelief that you think the PS3 has peaked already before even it's first set of exclusive titles are released, and as for the GPU, you know how the PS3 is engineered, developers are finding new and innovative ways to get around the limitations of the GPU on the PS3 all the time, just take a look at insomniac's development slides on how they were taking advantage of the PS3's architecture on RFoM and compare them to the new slides that they have on how they are taking advantage of the PS3 in Resistance 2, it's crazy how far they've come terms of innovation and development of PS3 games and thats in just a few years, thats why I believe the the PS3 over the course of it's life is going to grow from strength to strength because every year the developers technique's and how they programme the PS3 are going to evolve to make better use of the PS3's architecture like they did with the PS2.

with multi platform games when it comes down to it, it always ended up in a graphical debate and the ps3 versions are pretty much all equal or end off worse. its been like that for well over a year now.

But honestly think about it, most of these multi-platform games that are coming out took 2/3 or more years to develop and that development was lead on the 360, we all know this, if Sony say for example today end up convincing a few development teams to use the PS3 as the lead platform it would take years before we saw the out come of that, this is not something that's going to happen over night, that's why I say believing that the PS3 has had it's peak already is just madness seriously, especially considering the position it's currently in.

sony may well have a 10 year expected life span, but by year 6 i bet another xbox is out and by that point - its not really going to matter. MS would then have a more powerful and easier

This I actually think could be a possibility, but it's a possibility I think that anyone with any sense would not like to see happening, I really don't need to go into the pitfalls of a console market without any healthily competitors, this would be very bad for the consumer, actually it's quite a worrying prospect.

id love to know why they got the ps3 to market a year and a half later than they should have done. one that graphically at least is really on par with the 360 when it should have been much better.

I'm really not sure why people say this, firstly it wasn't a case of having an extra year and a half it was more a case that they was a year and a half behind, another reason for the delay also is that they was having mass production issues with the blue laser diode, I'm sure people have selective memory problems on here sometimes.

they might know the market, but they always seem to act as if they are cutting their own feet off. remove bc from the 40gb - why? even if i dont use it on my 60gb, its still a selling point, and 'cost' is a rubbish reason, the chipset costs a few quid at most. thats just one example lol.

This is funny, that was actually one of the better moves that they did, and it's probably the reason why the PS3 is the lead console in Europe today, because of the streamlining they did by introducing the 40gb PS3 with no back compat, no card reader, 2 less USB's and no SACD they was able to offer the PS3 at a more respectable price and this bumped up sales, it was even noted in this years SCEE Gaming Conference "A price cut in the summer of last year helped lift PlayStation 3 sales", seemed like a clever move to me, ok, most people in this forum may of been bummed out thinking "oh why did they drop BC etc" but you have to think outside the box, think about the main demographic, obviously this wasn't such a big issue as everyone thought it was because the 40gb pack has been selling like hot cakes in Europe.

oh thats another thing - sacd. why remove it from the 40gb? :rolleyes: they could have kickstarted the entire format again - people with 60gb's and a hdmi amp have been enjoying some brilliant multi channel albums from the likes of floyd, snow patrol, peter gabriel, the endless amounts of classical material ect and thanks to the ps3 doing so very cheaply - but sony in their wisdom chose to kill it stone dead instead. great move sony!

To cut down costs, it's that simple, did you know that Sony had to pay an extra licensing fee for every console sold for it to be enabled to play SACD?, cutting SACD out of the PS3 saved them a hell of allot of money, end of the day it was feature that barely anyone cared about tbh, or even new what it was, I know you an audiophile and and enjoy SACD, I enjoy it also, and DVD-A's, but lets face it, they are pretty much a dead format, and to trying to revive it in a time were CD sales declining at an alarming rate and more people are purchasing from on-line music stores than in retail it would have been a very silly move.
 
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I'm still in disbelief that you think the PS3 has peaked already
great.
before even it's first set of exclusive titles are released, and as for the GPU, you know how the PS3 is engineered, developers are finding new and innovative ways to get around the limitations of the GPU on the PS3 all the time, thats why the PS3 is is going to evolve in terms of development over the course of it's life because every year the developers technique's and how they programme the PS3 are going to evolve also to make better use of the PS3's architecture like the did with the PS2.

they are finding ways to get round limitations that shouldnt be there. in other words, they are bringing it up to speed. is it that much better than an xbox? no:/

This I actually think could be a possibility but it's a possibility I think that anyone with any sense would not like to see happening, I really don't need to go into the pitfalls of a console market without any healthily competitors, this would be very bad for the consumer, actually it's quite a worrying prospect.

yes it is. but i dont see why fresh competition is bad for the consumer. MS might take the opertunity to sit on the 360 for a while longer as use time to actually get the 360 right. i wouldnt blame them. however, that could lead to consoles hitting a brick wall, much like graphics cards have. nvidia could have done some serious damage to ati had they kept releasing cards but they didnt. good for everybody in the long run, but that leaves us twiddling our thumbs for 2 years. nothing fresh on the market isnt the greatest prospect either.


I'm really not sure why people say this, firstly it wasn't a case of having an extra year and a half it was more a case that they was a year and a half behind, another reason for the delay also is that they was having mass production issues with the blue laser diode, I'm sure people have selective memory problems on here sometimes.
i said it because sony are supposed to know the market. "a year and a half later than it should have done" means it was a.....year and a half behind shock. so whats this 'firstly' all about? they should have got it right and delivered the console a long time before they did. i love the way you are moving on to 'memory problems'. what affliction will i suffer from next i wonder?

This is funny, that was actually one of the better moves that they did, and it's probably the reason why the PS3 is the lead console in Europe today, because of the streamlining they did by introducing the 40gb PS3 with no back compat, no card reader, 2 less USB's and no SACD they was able to offer the PS3 at a more respectable price and this bumped up sales, it was even noted in this years SCEE Gaming Conference "A price cut in the summer of last year helped lift PlayStation 3 sales", seemed like a clever move to me, ok, most people in this forum may of been bummed out thinking "oh why did they drop BC" but you have to think outside the box, think about the main demographic, obviously this wasn't such a big issue as everyone thought because the 40gb pack has been selling like hot cakes in Europe.

it would have cost a few quid. literally. whats another £10 on the price when its still going to be £100 cheaper or more than the 60gb. they could have kept it in and i dont think it was a good move for sales. and for god's sake before you say anything, i havent used my BC. not once. so this isnt about me being close-minded or arrogant. got that?

To cut down costs, it's that simple, did you know that Sony had to pay an extra licensing fee for every console sold for it to be enabled to play SACD?, cutting SACD out of the PS3 saved them a hell of allot of money, end of the day it was feature that barely anyone cared about tbh, or even new what it was, I know you an audiophile and and enjoy SACD, I enjoy it also and DVD-A's, but lets face it, they pretty much a dead format, and to try to revive it in a time were CD sales declining at an alarming rate and more people are purchasing from on-line music store than in retail it would have been a very silly move.

sony and phillips invented the format. there isnt much you cant tell me about SACD that i dont already know. like i said, they could have kickstarted the format again with a very good chance of sales. how much do you think it was costing them to have sacd compatibility on there, then? as for silly move - possibly. but id rather that than the continual decline of music in general thanks to the 'ipod generation'. i could probably count the decently produced cd's in the last couple of years on one hand. but thats a different discussion

Am i not going to get an apology then lowrider?
 
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They couldn't have kick started the format. Your average joe has never heard of SACD, let alone owns one. Combine that with the fact that physical music sales is a dying market its a prudent move to drop support.
 
They couldn't have kick started the format. Your average joe has never heard of SACD, let alone owns one.

yes, would have been a good opportunity to try if you found yourself having 10 million sacd players in homes around the world. it might have worked, it might not. but as it stands, they have probably already sold more sacd-playing ps3's than every stand alone player combined lol.

its a shame cd are going the way they are. there are a lot of people around who would happily still buy cd's if the general quality of the audio returned to form. and if the price was right, they'd buy sacds too.
 
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I don't quite understand the 'strong' belief of some that the PS3 has only had it's surfaced scratched, and yet seem to think the 360 is at it's peak?

Seems to me like the 360 is continuing to improve at a great rate as well?

The one thing I will say is that Sony are playing it clever, take games such as LBP/GT5/KZ2, these have had amazingly long development cycles, and they are doing their utmost to make these 'look' superb, and good on them, but we will never know if you throw the same resource at the 360 if the same isn't possible..

Regarding previous console 'leaps' in performance through their lifecycles, well most of the major advancements have already been done, texture streaming, etc, etc, etc have all had singnificant impact performance, but it's not hardware performance related, it's a design 'method' improvement, and gamesdevs seem to have a good understanding of where the hardware problems lie, and what is/isn't possible on the current platform, and they seem to think that they stack up quite evenly.. any major improvements I think will come from visual 'trickery' rather then unleashing the 'beast' from within, and so will apply to both consoles..
 
they are finding ways to get round limitations that shouldnt be there. in other words, they are bringing it up to speed. is it that much better than an xbox? no:/

The PS2 had the same problems and it turned out to be one of the most successful consoles in the world, so your point is ?, and this argument isn't about graphics, it's about the success of the PS3 and the fact that you think that it's already peaked in terms of development.

yes it is. but i dont see why fresh competition is bad for the consumer. MS might take the opertunity to sit on the 360 for a while longer as use time to actually get the 360 right. i wouldnt blame them. however, that could lead to consoles hitting a brick wall, much like graphics cards have. nvidia could have done some serious damage to ati had they kept releasing cards but they didn't. good for everybody in the long run, but that leaves us twiddling our thumbs for 2 years. nothing fresh on the market isnt the greatest prospect either.

Nothing fresh, the Nvidia problem is completely different issue for a completely different market aimed at completely different people lol, end of the day we could be stuck with the 360/PS3 for the next 6/7/8 years, as long as they keep releasing new decent games for both platforms then there really won't be an issue, In-fact I think it's something that the consumers would prefer tbh, the fact that the PS2 is still selling as well and sometimes better than the PS3/360 in some parts of the world says allot, the problem is your thinking about it from a 'geek gaming' forum type of mentality, the main demographic really don't care much about IQ super AA and AF etc, they just want to play decent games, their not thinking after a few years, 'OMG I need a new console with more pixels on the screen', outside of this forum I barely know anyone that thinks that way tbh.


i said it because sony are supposed to know the market. "a year and a half later than it should have done" means it was a.....year and a half behind shock. so whats this 'firstly' all about? they should have got it right and delivered the console a long time before they did. i love the way you are moving on to 'memory problems'. what affliction will i suffer from next i wonder?

They are not perfect, they made a mistake, I've already said in earlier posts that Sony are to blame for Microsoft gaining the upper hand, they was behind in development and also they had poor relations with the publishers/developers in the beginning, that is starting to change now and Sony have said this is one of their main focus points atm so hopefully we will see a change but like I already said it will take time.


it would have cost a few quid. literally. whats another £10 on the price when its still going to be £100 cheaper or more than the 60gb. they could have kept it in and i dont think it was a good move for sales. and for god's sake before you say anything, i havent used my BC. not once. so this isnt about me being close-minded or arrogant. got that?

But your are being closed minded because you believe what was a good feature for you would also be a good feature for everyone else, beyond audiophiles no one cares about SACD mate, even when it was in it's prime barely anyone know what it was, you can't believe that SACD sold consoles honestly, or even believe that there could have been a revival of the format, my god, unbelievable.



sony and phillips invented the format. there isnt much you cant tell me about SACD that i dont already know. like i said, they could have kickstarted the format again with a very good change of sales. how much do you think it was costing them to have sacd compatibility on there, then?

Well you can't tell me how much the licensing fee was :rolleyes:, and read my above post in regards to you thinking it was possible for Sony to kickstart SACD again.

where's my apology lowrider?

Please, don't make me laugh.
 
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The PS2 had the same problems and it turned out to be one of the most successful consoles in the world, so your point is ?, and this argument isn't about graphics, it's about the success of the PS3 and the fact that you think that it's already peaked in terms of development.

the ps2 didnt have competition on anywhere near a level pegging. big difference.
Well you can't tell me how much the licensing fee was :rolleyes:, and read my above post in regards to you thinking it was possible for Sony to kickstart SACD again.
excuse me? you told ME it was costing them. i asked YOU how much. but you have no idea?

But your are being closed minded because you believe what was a good feature for you would also be a good feature for everyone else, beyond audiophiles no one cares about SACD mate, even when it was in it's prime barely anyone know what it was, you can't believe that SACD sold consoles honestly, or even believe that there could have been a revival of the format, my god, unbelievable.

everybody needs it? sacd's sell consoles? when did i say this? your making this stuff up LOL, what a joke.
Please, don't make me laugh.

you arent capable of a decent discussion and you've already tried to insult me more than enough. that is one amazingly childish attitude youve got there.
 
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Im not sure how worthwhile SACD compatability is on the PS3 - the format was practically dead before PS3 was released, its nigh on impossible finding any SACD's that are available to buy and no matter how popular the PS3 was /is going to be - this was really only focused on the people who had already got discs, rather than future purchases (launching another format alongside BR - or re-launching an old one - was never going to happen and could have caused confusion for the average person)

I will always prefer a disc medium to downloads, and SACD would be great IF you could get hold of them, but they never really made it in any shape or form

X360 does have great games, but has it really improved that much in the last 6-12 months? Its difficult to tell as different games highlight different aspects, but to me it hasnt really improved

Not sure where anyone gets the idea that "the same resources" are not thrown at the X360 games, of course they are - unquestionably MS and each dev wants to make everything work/look/feel the best possible

The hardware is considerably different on the two consoles - and the X360 is a more usual design, so it would therefore follow that its easier to develope for and get the most out of quicker.

I would be a highly paid developer myself if I knew exactly the ins and outs of it all, it just stands to reason that the unusual design of the PS3 (like past Playstations) will make it harder to extract the same results - not to mention some Sony devs saying they are only using 1/3 of the capabilities on current games
 
Im not sure how worthwhile SACD compatability is on the PS3 - the format was practically dead before PS3 was released, its nigh on impossible finding any SACD's that are available to buy and no matter how popular the PS3 was /is going to be - this was really only focused on the people who had already got discs, rather than future purchases (launching another format alongside BR - or re-launching an old one - was never going to happen and could have caused confusion for the average person)

I will always prefer a disc medium to downloads, and SACD would be great IF you could get hold of them, but they never really made it in any shape or form
this is it really. they killed the format through a combination of hardware costs and lack of actual media. if say, sacd had been released now, the hardware wouldnt have been a problem. they'd already have millions of players in homes. they'd only have to produce the media. its a bit of a shame really. Apparently, i think everybody needs it and i think SACD's sell consoles. what i actually said was the consoles could have sold the sacds, bit of a difference.


but still, im to close-minded to see the possibilities.
 
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i said it because sony are supposed to know the market. "a year and a half later than it should have done" means it was a.....year and a half behind shock.

It may have been released slightly later than planned but 360 was certainly also way too premature, it was rushed on to market with little to no quality assurance testing.

Sony can't afford to skip such vital stages and get labelled with the unreliable garbage tag because it would hurt all their other electronic device ranges.
 
<sigh>

ok then, if thats the way you feel, like I said before I bare no grudges dude, I don't have a problem with you I just disagree whole heartedly with your stance on this issue.


you are full of crap as well:rolleyes: youve questioned my mental health, my memory retention, you've been rude and abrasive throughout this discussion and others with me as if its some soft of justification for yuor otherwise weak arguments.....and i spared you the same childish responses. look back and tell me this is incorrect. until you apologize (quote: "dont make me laugh") this is my last response to you or any of your posts. i haven't changed at all. you however, are acting like a child and that isnt really my problem. i'll be damned if im going to put up with it either.

It may have been released slightly later than planned but 360 was certainly also way too premature, it was rushed on to market with little to no quality assurance testing.

Sony can't afford to skip such vital stages and get labelled with the unreliable garbage tag because it would hurt all their other electronic device ranges.

this i can not argue with. actually i think both of them got through with the skin of their teeth this time around. no console would have survived in the market with the 360's problems if it wasnt from MS or sony. no console would have gained support like the ps3 has it it wasnt from sony or MS. reputation i believe is about all they survived with. that and bag fulls of money lol.
 
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Sony can't afford to skip such vital stages and get labelled with the unreliable garbage tag because it would hurt all their other electronic device ranges.
Spot on. Sony rushed the PS2 through and had all sorts of issues with lasers in certain batches (mine being one of them) and the PS2 actually got off to a slow start, it came to life around about the same time the PS3 is now.

Next time around I expect both to be released together and both to have been QA'd very well.
 
the ps2 didnt have competition on anywhere near a level pegging. big difference.

Yes I agree the competition is stronger this time around but Sony only had themselves to blame on this matter, I've already explained this, Sony made a mistake, they got caught with their pants down, simple as, they are now trying to fix that damage, considering that the PS3 is not the console of choice for lead development atm and only 1 of it's major exclusives titles has been released, AND it was a year late hitting the shelves, and on top of all that it still has a larger install base in the EU and Japan, that is the power of the Playstation brand.


excuse me? you told ME it was costing them. i asked YOU how much. but you have no idea?

You was the one that said "there isnt much you cant tell me about SACD that i don't already know." so I presumed you would know, I don't know how much the fee was, even if it was £1 on 10 million consoles sold that's 10 million pounds wasted on a feature for an already dead format.

everybody needs it? sacd's sell consoles? when did i say this? your making this stuff up LOL, what a joke.

you said,

"they could have kept it in and i dont think it was a good move for sales"

and by my logic, I said taking it out was a good thing, you say the above and disagree saying that you don't think it was a good move for sales (taking out the SACd feature), which means keeping it in the sales would have been better in your opinion, no chance, because the consoles would have had to of been priced higher thus selling less, Sony wanted to hit the 299rrp marker and to do that they had to cut down on as many features as possible.

you are full of crap as well youve questioned my mental health, my memory retention, you've been rude and abrasive throughout this discussion and others with me as if its some soft of justification for yuor otherwise weak arguments.....and i spared you the same childish responses. look back and tell me this is incorrect.

you are incorrect, you've taken everything out of context, I said,

wtf, are mentally ill

It's a simple question, I didn't say that you was mentally ill

Also,

I'm sure people have selective memory problems on here sometimes.

where have I said YOU have memory problems, I was generalising, thats why I said PEOPLE, like I've said you've taken what I've said out of context.
 
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Can't believe that tbh, unless all the ps3's have been sold to those above pensionable age. Also played GT5 prologue today, can't believe how boring it is. Sony, how did you manage to completely remove all the fun from driving????
 
It may have been released slightly later than planned but 360 was certainly also way too premature, it was rushed on to market with little to no quality assurance testing.

Sony can't afford to skip such vital stages and get labelled with the unreliable garbage tag because it would hurt all their other electronic device ranges.

I agree mmj_uk
It wasnt that the PS3 was 18 months late, It was the Xbox360 was 18 months to early.
The end result of this Is that the xbox360 had way more failure rates and before people defend this, then why did Microsoft comit to putting £1billion aside for repairs?

PS- I love my Xbox 360 but I will "consider" hanging on, on launch day of their next console, just to see if they all blow up in a week lol.

another thing when Sony say that the PS3 has a 10 year cycle, dont confuse this with they wont relase another console before that. the PS2 is still selling despite the PS3 launch.
 
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