Motorsport Off Topic Thread

sunama said:
You think an F1 team can be top, just because of 1 man?
Do you really believe that?
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Where would Ferrari have been without Michael Schumacher? Yes, they had an incredible array of talent at that team for the period he was driving for them - but they were there because Michael was there.

Same goes for Red Bull. Yes, Vettel is an incredibly talented driver. Yes, there are many people working very hard at that team to bring home trophies. Where would they be without Adrian Newey there? Upper midfield, IMO. Newey's first two cars for the team were hamstrung by cooling problems - the RB3 - and a lack of power - the RB4, which was the last RBR car to run before Renault were allowed to ignore the engine freeze and catch back up. His third car was probably the best car on the 2009 grid - the McLaren and Ferrari were awful cars elevated by inspired driving, the Brawn was a starting money special that had no right to be as quick as it was early in the year, the BMW was useless, the Renault not much better. And he's not built a duff one since. He does occasionally get it a bit wrong (*cough* McLaren MP4-18 *cough*)¹, but more often than not he builds 'em right.

¹ - also the MP4-19, and the early season Williams FW16
 
Duke said:
One does not simply get bored of BTCC
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This so much! Annoyed that I've missed a couple of races this year and the ITV highlights online are hard to find sometimes! (probably user error :D)
Indy500 said:
Some of us get bored of Plato vs Neal confrontations :p
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That's the best bit :D

Always got to laugh at the commentary too. Mentioning Plato's push to pass tactic last race had me chuckling!
 
JRS said:
Where would Ferrari have been without Michael Schumacher? Yes, they had an incredible array of talent at that team for the period he was driving for them - but they were there because Michael was there.
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Hard to say it was all down to Michael being there, Byrne probably yes.
 
Mr Men said:
Hard to say it was all down to Michael being there, Byrne probably yes.
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But the point is, Rory wouldn't have been hired if Schumacher wasn't there. Everything about that Ferrari steamroller era grew out of hiring him.

Or possibly the hiring of Jean Todt in '93, but since he's about as well liked as The Almighty Satanic Evil That Is Bernard Charles Ecclestone™ on here I figure the less said the better in that regard....
 
Bernie's been great for F1.
Without him, teams would probably still have small budgets, a racing calender of 12 races/year, with poor TV coverage.
Bernie has done a lot for the sport - and made plenty of cash in the process.
 
JRS said:
Same goes for Red Bull. Yes, Vettel is an incredibly talented driver. Yes, there are many people working very hard at that team to bring home trophies. Where would they be without Adrian Newey there?
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JRS.
In order for a team to dominate (I mean dominate and not just luck into a title), for many years, the entire team has to be top class...not just the designer.

If it was as simple as hiring a top designer and winning a title, you would base your entire team around the designer; pay him $US40M/year and hire drivers for US$1M/year, as they are merely chumps. Also put the rest of the team on low wages - as these chumps can be replaced.

To dominate, which is what RBR are doing right now, you have to have the right management strategy in place, the right designer, the right pilot, the best design and engineering departments (not just one person), the best pit crew, etc. From top to bottom, you have to be either the best or 2nd best. Hiring chumps wont allow you to dominate in the way that RBR have.

For sure, the designer is important. I'm not disputing this. But having Vettel, Horner, (even Webber - who doesnt get in Vettel's way), a great pit crew and garage (on F1 weekends) are equally important.

My belief is that Newey did not build or design this car by himself. He had plenty of help/ideas. And no single person can claim credit for the domination. It really is a team effort.

Perhaps Sparky can comment on this - and give us an insiders point of view.
 
This will probably be a "muppetry comment" from me but I get a snaeking feeling Alonso will bail from Ferrari and head over to McLaren.

Obviously not this season !
 
British racing driver Dario Franchitti has fractured his spine after crashing at the IndyCar Grand Prix in Houston.
Crash @ 35 seconds
@ 57 seconds looks like he was so close to leaving the track
 
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sunama said:
JRS.
In order for a team to dominate (I mean dominate and not just luck into a title), for many years, the entire team has to be top class...not just the designer.

If it was as simple as hiring a top designer and winning a title, you would base your entire team around the designer; pay him $US40M/year and hire drivers for US$1M/year, as they are merely chumps. Also put the rest of the team on low wages - as these chumps can be replaced.

To dominate, which is what RBR are doing right now, you have to have the right management strategy in place, the right designer, the right pilot, the best design and engineering departments (not just one person), the best pit crew, etc. From top to bottom, you have to be either the best or 2nd best. Hiring chumps wont allow you to dominate in the way that RBR have.

For sure, the designer is important. I'm not disputing this. But having Vettel, Horner, (even Webber - who doesnt get in Vettel's way), a great pit crew and garage (on F1 weekends) are equally important.

My belief is that Newey did not build or design this car by himself. He had plenty of help/ideas. And no single person can claim credit for the domination. It really is a team effort.

Perhaps Sparky can comment on this - and give us an insiders point of view.
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With RBR we have the situation that they have one of the best drivers on the grid, the best designer and the largest budget (plus a willingness to ignore the resource restrictions).

This is coupled with the modern F1 cars being exceptionally reliable and much easier to keep on track (watch the amount of steering input required to keep an MP4/4 going in a straight line let alone a corner compared to a current car) means that you don't have the random failing to finish issues that used to occur.

The result of this is that the RBR is the fastest car and generally will finish the race still leading.
 
Red Bull had Adrian Newey for 3 years before they were anywhere near capable of challenging at the front (though you could argue that much of the Toro Rosso with which Vettel won the Italian GP of 2008 was Newey derived).

It's not about the designer. It's not about the driver. It's not about the any individuals, it's the team they set up around them. Perhaps without Vettel, they might not have won a title (unlikely, but then it's extremely doubtful that Vettel's replacement would have won 4 titles on the trot). Without Newey, the design team wouldn't likely be up to the standard it is now. Without Horner, Red Bull perhaps would have been free to employ only Austrian Red Bull addicts.

It's the blend and every aspect of that team is at the top level, only missing out a bit of reliability (and really only on the one car).

Newey's Williams (when design teams were much less resourceful than they are now) were stunning cars, but he didn't design the electronic and hydraulic systems that went a long way towards them dominating in the 1992 and 1993 seasons in particular. He likely did however go a long way towards shaping the team that did. While he's obviously a top designer, in my opinion his true art is surrounding himself with people that work well under him.

It'll be interesting to see where Mercedes lie in a few seasons, and whether employing every other designer and engineer in the paddock has a detrimental effect or not. Currently it seems to be working well though.
 
Rumours of Ross Brawn moving to mclaren in time for the honda link up.
Mercedes are downplaying it though.

I think that would be the best move mclaren have made in years, if it turned out to be true. Im not sure why brawn would go there though.
 
"Murray Walker's 90th birthday special, 11:00 & 17:00 BBC Red Button Oct 10th" should be good to watch :)
 
Rumour has it he's not happy with Lauda/Wolff and the restructuring that came with that. Doesn't look like there's room for him at Ferrari or Red Bull, so the next most competitive team (long-term) is McLaren. Presumably he would be taking a step backwards, as Whitmarsh is likely to continue as team principal, but maybe he feels a technical role would suit him more?

Obviously, some speculation on my part, there.
 
arknor said:
British racing driver Dario Franchitti has fractured his spine after crashing at the IndyCar Grand Prix in Houston.
Crash @ 35 seconds
@ 57 seconds looks like he was so close to leaving the track
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Every time I see a crash like that, and there are a lot, I wonder why they never seem to improve the fencing. It seems to do nothing other than shred the car and sends bits of fence and debris into the crowd.
 
Skeeter said:
Every time I see a crash like that, and there are a lot, I wonder why they never seem to improve the fencing. It seems to do nothing other than shred the car and sends bits of fence and debris into the crowd.
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It's the age old balance between making it 101% safe and making it so you can actually see the track from the grandstands. Hell of a lot of energy in a crash like that, and you need the fence to bend a bit to try and dissipate some of that energy. It's a bad deal though, all my best to Dario.
 
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