Motorsport Off Topic Thread

How could they improve it though? Crashes like that are very rare, and the fence did its job - it kept the car on the track.

Put too much protection in and it won't be worth going to watch live.
 
The_Abyss said:
Crashes like that are very rare, and the fence did its job - it kept the car on the track.
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Conversely the fence has cost lives. I believe Dan Weldon died when his head struck a pole supporting the fence. I remember some conflicting reports that Jeff Krosnoff hit a supporting pole or a tree (both were in close proximity, but I don't remember reading any clarification). There must also be other instances in lower formulas around the world.

There have been some truly horrifying NASCAR crashes where all that is left is part of the rollcage (I don't watch enough NASCAR to know if there have been any fatalities in such crashes), but there must be a better way.

All I can think of is perspex (though I'd imagine that would be frustrating for fans due to reflections) or a netting (would surely be better than a cheese grater, but potentially strangulation issues?). But surely in this day and age where we're coming up with super hi-tech materials, that we can't come up with a simple transparent barrier above a concrete wall that doesn't cause nearly as much damage as it prevents?
 
this_is_gav said:
There have been some truly horrifying NASCAR crashes where all that is left is part of the rollcage (I don't watch enough NASCAR to know if there have been any fatalities in such crashes), but there must be a better way.
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There have been several over the years. One of the worst ones I've ever seen was Geoff Bodine, inaugural Truck series Daytona race in 2000. He was on the outside, trucks got into each other next to him and one of them bobbled up into him. He got a launch into the catch fencing that just shredded the truck. He got hit again after landing as well. A concussion and some broken bones was the result. Amazing that he lived, really. Good thing they build those trucks (and the drivers!) tough.

 
Sato got sideways in the equivalent of a wider-radius 130R. He was significantly below the usual speed of ~150mph there. As Le Mans demonstrates, cars with high speed differentials colliding can cause spectacular crashes:


Dario had surgery to fix his ankle and will leave for Indianapolis shortly. It might well be an exaggeration of the injury he picked up in Nascar:

 
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The_Abyss said:
How could they improve it though? Crashes like that are very rare, and the fence did its job - it kept the car on the track.

Put too much protection in and it won't be worth going to watch live.
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I guess they could use bullet proof plastic or something but I bet it would be a lot of expense and they might not absorb as much as the impact as a bendable fence
 
The_Abyss said:
How could they improve it though?
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While it stopped the car leaving the track, large chunks of fence appear to have made it into the crowd, which is something I think they should seriously look at.

There was an NNS race earlier this year where the engine block ended up outside the fence too.

While the fence does its job, I think there are some improvements to be made around the area where the fence connects to the concrete wall. It seems to fail all to often.
 
sunama said:
JRS.
In order for a team to dominate (I mean dominate and not just luck into a title), for many years, the entire team has to be top class...not just the designer.

If it was as simple as hiring a top designer and winning a title, you would base your entire team around the designer; pay him $US40M/year and hire drivers for US$1M/year, as they are merely chumps. Also put the rest of the team on low wages - as these chumps can be replaced.

To dominate, which is what RBR are doing right now, you have to have the right management strategy in place, the right designer, the right pilot, the best design and engineering departments (not just one person), the best pit crew, etc. From top to bottom, you have to be either the best or 2nd best. Hiring chumps wont allow you to dominate in the way that RBR have.

For sure, the designer is important. I'm not disputing this. But having Vettel, Horner, (even Webber - who doesnt get in Vettel's way), a great pit crew and garage (on F1 weekends) are equally important.

My belief is that Newey did not build or design this car by himself. He had plenty of help/ideas. And no single person can claim credit for the domination. It really is a team effort.

Perhaps Sparky can comment on this - and give us an insiders point of view.
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Dont agree with that at all.

RBR are without a doubt a fantastic team even without Newey. Im not questioning that at all. However AN is SO FAR above every other designer that it just doesnt matter how good the other designers are (even if there is a better "team" in the pitlane) the whole RBR concept built up by Newey over the years is unbeatable currently.

The only hope for the rest of the teams is IF (and Im not by any means saying they will) Renault come up with a bit of a duff engine to compensate for the design brilliance of AN. He is well known for liking "tight" packaging, and for whatever reason if excessive heat can become a problem for the RBR for the next few years this is also a sight glimmer of hope for entertainment value of F1 in the near future


Ive always wondered how much hands on technical design Brawn has done since Merc took over (there were rumours he was unhappy as soon as Lauda appeared on the scene, but it didnt appear to come to anything). whether its a good move for him personally, I cant see it being a bad move for McLaren if they can get him (seems a bit of a strange one though in certain respects).
 
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Skeeter said:
While it stopped the car leaving the track, large chunks of fence appear to have made it into the crowd, which is something I think they should seriously look at.

There was an NNS race earlier this year where the engine block ended up outside the fence too.

While the fence does its job, I think there are some improvements to be made around the area where the fence connects to the concrete wall. It seems to fail all to often.
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I don't disagree that it could be improved - clearly it could as the fence doesn't stop anything. My point was that this is a live spectator sport, and that I don't actually know what improvements they could make without greatly detracting from the race experience. There'll always be an accident that defies logic and seemingly defies physics and puts lives at risk.
 
The_Abyss said:
I don't disagree that it could be improved - clearly it could as the fence doesn't stop anything. My point was that this is a live spectator sport, and that I don't actually know what improvements they could make without greatly detracting from the race experience. There'll always be an accident that defies logic and seemingly defies physics and puts lives at risk.
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The grandstands in FIA events are positioned further back than this particular one at Houston was (would have been better on the inside of the corner to avoid potential debris issues), although there is still the matter of driver injury. That said, I wouldn't want to see a huge tarmac run-off either.

I read some comments from Sato, and it seems he was driving a damaged car on the last lap. Dropped from 7th to 10th (he was passed by Oriol Servia, Charlie Kimball and Mike Conway before the crash). Knowing his history of spectacular crashes, I'm inclined to believe his decision to push at 10/10 through a high-speed section was a contributing factor to Dario getting in the fence.

Racer.com said:
Sato believes that damage from a brush with the wall caused his Dallara-Honda to get sideways in front of Franchitti's Ganassi car.

"It looked like it was going to be a very close finish with Simon Pagenaud [for sixth place], and I didn't know if I could gain a position but at least I wanted to try," said Sato. "As a result of that battle I put a wheel on the curb at Turn 8 [on the penultimate lap], the car bounced and I ran wide, I caught the marbles and brushed the wall on the exit.

"Because the field was so close together I lost a few places and we think I might have damaged a toe link at the rear. From there all the way around to Turn 4 on the next lap it's all left-hand corners. I could feel the car drifting and had so much marbles on the tires.

"At that point, I was just doing what I could to finish the race. But as soon as I got to Turn 5, which is right-handed, it was fully loaded on the left rear where possibly I had the toe-link problem.

"It's a very tricky corner and I tried to hold the inside line, but unfortunately I had a sudden huge snap oversteer and drifted wide one car length, just as Dario was overtaking me. It was a huge accident at very high speed."
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Maria de Villota has been found dead in her hotel room in Seville at the age of 33.

A message on de Villota's Facebook page read: "Dear friends: Maria has left us. She has gone to heaven and all the angels. We thank God for the year and a half more that we had together. Signed: Family Villota."

Various reports state that de Villota was found in her hotel room by emergency services on Friday morning. She was due to appear at a 'What Really Matters' conference in Seville, which has since been suspended.

De Villota - the daughter of former Formula One driver Emilio - lost her right eye after a crash while testing for Marussia in July 2012. She suffered serious head injuries after crashing in to the back of a truck at Duxford Airfield.
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No indication towards the cause of death.

From the families statement it sounds like it was almost expected.

Could there have been complications following the crash? It sounded like she had a made a complete recovery.
 
Irish_Tom said:
No indication towards the cause of death.

From the families statement it sounds like it was almost expected.

Could there have been complications following the crash? It sounded like she had a made a complete recovery.
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Apart from losing her eye of course, physically she seemed OK.

I know she was cleared to "drive a car", but I presume that's just the OK to drive on the road. I doubt she'd ever have been allowed to compete in a serious racing event again (from club racing up), and that must have been horrible mentally.

RIP. :(
 
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