Motorsport Off Topic Thread

[Mr Jack]

That's for Red Bull to decide, they may see whatever PR damage this causes to be worth less than the damage of him leaving on short notice without proper hand over/ training his successor. Overall Red Bull are great PR machine with all the things they get involved in. Losing some F1 fans and maintaining their performance is likely worth more than small (relatively speaking) loss of fan base, which they can recover by continuous success in the future.

If it was just the F1 team, I think they'd probably stick it out. But the F1 teams is a small part of the whole operation and the last thing Red Bull proper want is the F1 team harming the main company. Ultimately the F1 team is marketing to them, and if marketing is generating negative publicity...

I think it's obvious Horner has done a great job as team principal, and they've benefited an enormous amount from sticking with a stable setup, but I don't think he's irreplaceable. They will still have Newey and Verstappen, and all the other engineers and so on that are making the team such a success if he leaves. It seems rather unlikely that there isn't someone else who could step in and lead the team to continued victories.

 

[Journey]

That's for Red Bull to decide, they may see whatever PR damage this causes to be worth less than the damage of him leaving on short notice without proper hand over/ training his successor. Overall Red Bull are great PR machine with all the things they get involved in. Losing some F1 fans and maintaining their performance is likely worth more than small (relatively speaking) loss of fan base, which they can recover by continuous success in the future.

I'm not talking about Red Bull I am talking about the individual involved who happens to work for Red Bull.

 

[koolpc]

If it continues, Horner will have no choice but to step down. Its not good for his team and the sport to be shrouded in all of this...

 

[Stu999]

A story Autosport got from the mail newspaper, so that'll be true then
I quote from Autosport: "Speaking to the Daily Mail, Verstappen Sr said: “There is tension here while he remains in position.".
So probably the usual pack of 'we made it up' from the mail

Nah, they got it from De Telegraaf.

Christian Horner: Jos Verstappen says controversy 'driving team apart'

The controversy surrounding Red Bull boss Christian Horner is "driving people apart", says the father of world champion Max Verstappen.

www.bbc.co.uk

Verstappen Sr. doesn't want the team "torn apart" so goes to the press with something inflammatory that will contribute to tearing the team apart. Genius move.

 

[bayo000]

If it was just the F1 team, I think they'd probably stick it out. But the F1 teams is a small part of the whole operation and the last thing Red Bull proper want is the F1 team harming the main company. Ultimately the F1 team is marketing to them, and if marketing is generating negative publicity...

I think it's obvious Horner has done a great job as team principal, and they've benefited an enormous amount from sticking with a stable setup, but I don't think he's irreplaceable. They will still have Newey and Verstappen, and all the other engineers and so on that are making the team such a success if he leaves. It seems rather unlikely that there isn't someone else who could step in and lead the team to continued victories.

That's actually precisely why I think he'll stick it out. I doubt many people outside of F1 care or even know about this. Even in the office earlier this week when group of us were talking about F1 it hardly got a mention and no one really cared, not even Merc fans.

As you say they still have a very strong core and I'm sure there are now plans being made for transition. Unless something big drops from leaks I expect he'll be gone at the end of the season saying the team is now preparing for reg changes in 26 with new leadership etc.

I'm not talking about Red Bull I am talking about the individual involved who happens to work for Red Bull.

Fair enough but it's not unusual for really successful individuals to be **** and not care what other people think.

 

[Mr Jack]

A story Autosport got from the mail newspaper, so that'll be true then

The Daily Mail story is a direct quote. The Mail aren't a reliable source; but they're not making up direct quotes level unrealiable either. Of course we don't know whether this:

'There is tension here while he remains in position,' Verstappen Snr told Mail Sport.

'The team is in danger of being torn apart. It can't go on the way it is. It will explode. He is playing the victim, when he is the one causing the problems.'​

was taken from a wider context that puts a different spin on things; but I can't see any great reason to disbelieve that Jos would think or say this. It's obvious to everyone that the Horner fracas is bad for Red Bull and a distraction from the racing. Jos has loyalty only to his son, if he thinks Horner is damaging he will want him gone.

That's actually precisely why I think he'll stick it out. I doubt many people outside of F1 care or even know about this.

It has been front page news on mainstream UK newspapers. The Ginger Spice angle gives it a wider draw than F1 alone.

 

[bayo000]

It has been front page news on mainstream UK newspapers. The Ginger Spice angle gives it a wider draw than F1 alone.

Yeah but only small part of them will make connection to the F1 team and even less to wider Red Bull. Vast majority will just think that he's an idiot and continue with their life.

 

[Mr Jack]

Yeah but only small part of them will make connection to the F1 team and even less to wider Red Bull. Vast majority will just think that he's an idiot and continue with their life.

That's true.

But that's also true of pretty much every situation where we've seen people forced out over similar. I think it depends whether it goes away, or whether there are further leaks and revelations. It's been running for weeks already, but it matters more when the season is running and many more eyes on the team. If there's another leak next week. And then another in Australia. And then someone else comes forward with new allegations. And... and... The pressure will rise until something gives. If, on the other hand, there isn't any more to come then I think Horner will successfully brass it out.

 

[bayo000]

As you say lot depends on whether there will be other leaks or not. Assuming there's nothing new this is pretty much over. As the season goes on the focus will be on that rather than some rumours from pre season.

 

[cuke2u]

The Daily Mail story is a direct quote. The Mail aren't a reliable source; but they're not making up direct quotes level unrealiable either. Of course we don't know whether this:

'There is tension here while he remains in position,' Verstappen Snr told Mail Sport.​

​

'The team is in danger of being torn apart. It can't go on the way it is. It will explode. He is playing the victim, when he is the one causing the problems.'​

was taken from a wider context that puts a different spin on things; but I can't see any great reason to disbelieve that Jos would think or say this. It's obvious to everyone that the Horner fracas is bad for Red Bull and a distraction from the racing. Jos has loyalty only to his son, if he thinks Horner is damaging he will want him gone.



It has been front page news on mainstream UK newspapers. The Ginger Spice angle gives it a wider draw than F1 alone.

Sky F1: "Horner and Jos Verstappen were seen in the paddock throughout the week in Sakhir but the pair also shared a meeting inside Red Bull's hospitality on Saturday night, which ended in an embrace."
So just another hatchet job by the Daily Mail, not even fit to use as toilet paper...

 

[sidimmu]

So just another hatchet job by the Daily Mail, not even fit to use as toilet paper...

Shame people read the daily mail and them come in here and use their nonsense story as gods word across the paddock.

 

[Eddie99]

Shame people read the daily mail and them come in here and use their nonsense story as gods word across the paddock.

Pretty sure they're not going to make up direct quotes like that even if they are the daily mail.

 

[sidimmu]

Pretty sure they're not going to make up direct quotes like that even if they are the daily mail.

have you seen half the things the DM have had to formally apologise for?
Also there is evidence of it in this thread in relation to Geri;
-not going to bahrain
-going to bahrain
-finding out in the air
-not going to the race

to showing up to the race and supporting her husband.

 

[Eddie99]

have you seen half the things the DM have had to formally apologise for?
Also there is evidence of it in this thread in relation to Geri;
-not going to bahrain
-going to bahrain
-finding out in the air
-not going to the race

to showing up to the race and supporting her husband.

So you think they just made up a direct quote like that and Jos or Red Bull wouldn't have denied it by now?

 

[Eddie99]

BBC Article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68461379

Verstappen told BBC Sport he made the comments to the two newspapers after falling out with Horner in Bahrain.
He added that Max Verstappen had seen the comments and did not say anything.

 

[imtoooldforthis]

A story Autosport got from the mail newspaper, so that'll be true then
I quote from Autosport: "Speaking to the Daily Mail, Verstappen Sr said: “There is tension here while he remains in position.".
So probably the usual pack of 'we made it up' from the mail

Unlikely to be nonsense as the original article was from Jonathan McEvoy who whilst being a bit of a helmet is actually a long time F1 journalist who attends every race and has been reporting on F1 for decades. He’s not the type to completely fabricate quotes out of thin air even whilst working for an awful rag like the Daily Mail.

So many other well known sources have run the story now that I’d wager there is truth behind it.

Edit: Jos has now confirmed it.

 

[Thomas. PLease.]

I think the worst of it is MBS asking Max to give Horner his support. When you consider him pursuing Susie Wolff for nothing, and actively avoiding any review of RB goings on it all becomes a little clearer.

 

[sidimmu]

I sense Max will fall out with Jos before he falls out with CH, the guy that has given him everything he needs to become a champion and his complete attention and support.

 

[Eddie99]

I sense Max will fall out with Jos before he falls out with CH, the guy that has given him everything he needs to become a champion and his complete attention and support.

Really? I thought the rumor was that Max was loyal to Jos and does what he's told. If Horner refuses to leave and has the backing of the Thai owners, I wonder if Jos will try to use Max as leverage.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

Responsibility for the company, it does not give the world access to your private life still.
But if you want to justify intervening in someone's personal life over and over again, trying to justify them losing their job for a private mate, allowing for others to gain, shows you have a bias here.

Dont you remember the words "super injunction"?
Its called damage mitigation, does not matter if you are in right or wrong, its what you do to protect your brand.

Its like some people in here forget what actually happens in the world, because when someone they dislike is the next target, nothing matters they must go.

Oh, I am not fan of Horner the man, I make no secret of that. His previous behaviours have shown he is not really a moral man, but in this case I would be saying the same thing for any other team principal.

Also in regards to "forget what actually happens in the real world" I have actually seen this happen at very famous multinational corporation that I worked at. A very senior married exec who I worked under made several unwanted advances to at least 2 female members of staff (one I was witness to a number of times) and he "got away" with a severe demotion and moved to another region.

Unfortunately "it" comes with the territory in F1, and more so due to the sponsors and media commitments!

I would also always argue that it ceases to be a purely personal matter the moment it affects your business. If you are fooling around with junior staff, that's not someone I would want in a very senior position running my business.