Mourinho Sacked! Solskjær new interim manager

[FrankJH]

Will it though? He's already beaten Spurs/Arsenal which i'm not sure anyone particularly expected.

I'd say that all of those teams (bar possibly Chelsea) have a much better first team than us and you would expect us to lose. He could probably go out and try not to lose and maybe nick a win in one game and a couple draws, but if PSG/Liverpool/City bring their A game then with our defence i don't think he should be blamed if we lose every game.

Two things though (even if Utd lose, as most people possibly rightly expect with our defence)

Whether Ole has the right tactics for each game (or at least learns from each one, which might be harder to prove until next season) and the defence lets us down & also how we bounce back against …..Crystal Palace I think is the next EPL game after Liverpool ….and again how we bounce back after facing City in the league as well.

but we are still 4 players short of a team that should be competing for the top spots in the league. .

Actually slightly disagree with this - I actually think if this team was playing to its potential all season we would be in the top 3 today .

Just think - if Ed had had the balls to sack JM even a month earlier, would we really have drawn at home to Arsenal or drawn away to Southampton - that's 4 points right there to get us above Chelsea ...and Im sure there are just as obvious points dropped even earlier in the season (away to Chelsea for example).

Given JM's tendency to go negative once in the lead....its quite probable we would have benefitted more from the players being happy and knowing what they are doing rather than playing scared.


Four players would be fantastic....but Im not actually convinced we NEED 4 players to get back to the top (and also it can make it harder bringing in a lot of players at the same time)
1 Centre Half
1 more experienced right full -back (see below)
1 CM / DM

Lets see how long it takes for Greenwood to be given his debut and minutes after that as he is tearing it up in all the academy age-groups , I would hate to block his growth by getting a young right winger coming in (the same could be said for Dalot so its a hard balance to make)

 

[BaZ87]

No decision on Solksjaer should be made based on the outcome of a couple of matches. As I've been saying since before Mourinho was sacked, Utd need to decide on a plan for the way forward and appoint the best people to implement that plan. Appointing Solksjaer because he's had a good few months and not having a plan for what you're going to do in the summer and beyond is madness.

That's not to say he shouldn't get the job btw, just that I'm not sure how you can decide that he's the right man until you know what you want from him.

 

[father-ted]

The Club obviously know what they want from the manager of Manchester United, that is to win the league and the Champions League.

The million dollar question is if Ole is the man for the job, or Poch.....or somebody else?

The performances and results that Ole gets out of the team between now and the end of the season will most probably decide that......it’s in Ole’s own hands if you think about it.

 

[BaZ87]

The Club obviously know what they want from the manager of Manchester United, that is to win the league and the Champions League.

If that's the case then the only man for the job is Houdini. Once he's magiced up a way to come back to life, his biggest trick would be achieving what you want of a Utd manager.

In all seriousness though, you've misunderstood what I was getting at. Are Utd going to be appointing a director of football that's going to set out an overall direction regarding recruitment, style of play etc? And if so, who is the right man to work alongside him? The relationship between a coach and DoF is more important that the ability of both in isolation because if they can't or won't work together then it'll only end in tears. Equally are Utd intending to stick with the same Manager/Chairman set-up, meaning there's greater emphasis on the manager in terms of recruitment.

How can you decide who's the best man for the job when you don't know what roles that man is expected to fulfill? Unless of course Utd are going to carry on walking with their eyes closed, hoping for the best.

 

[placeholder]

If that's the case then the only man for the job is Houdini. Once he's magiced up a way to come back to life, his biggest trick would be achieving what you want of a Utd manager.

In all seriousness though, you've misunderstood what I was getting at. Are Utd going to be appointing a director of football that's going to set out an overall direction regarding recruitment, style of play etc? And if so, who is the right man to work alongside him? The relationship between a coach and DoF is more important that the ability of both in isolation because if they can't or won't work together then it'll only end in tears. Equally are Utd intending to stick with the same Manager/Chairman set-up, meaning there's greater emphasis on the manager in terms of recruitment.

How can you decide who's the best man for the job when you don't know what roles that man is expected to fulfill? Unless of course Utd are going to carry on walking with their eyes closed, hoping for the best.

I think that might be the plan.

Its quickly getting to the point that no matter what the original plan may have been there will be no way they cannot give the job to Solskjaer. If (and it is a big if) he continues in the manner he has started then there is no way they can realistically not give him maybe a two year contract and an opportunity to see if what he is doing short term can become a long term option.

The problem is that even if they have another man lined up the record of Solskjaer will be a stick to beat him with from day one. The very real possibility is that in a permanent role he will fail - its a very different job from simply minding the shop - just ask Di Matteo and Dalglish but in both cases the clubs really didn't have much choice and in this case they may not either. Also its not as if United would be passing up an opportunity to appoint a Pep Guardiola type in the summer anyway so why not give to the guy that knows the club? The dogged experienced PL manager didn't world, the experienced successful worldly wise coach didn't work and the guaranteed trophies man didn't really work, might as well try the ex player!

 

[BaZ87]

Oh I understand the issue Utd face the longer Solskjaer does well. I'm pretty sure I wrote on here at the time that our owners didn't want to sack Hodgson because of the potential issues that bringing in Dalglish as caretaker brought up. As soon as Dalglish done well he had to be given the permanent job because his shadow would have hung over whoever got it instead. I don't think it would be quite as big an issue for Utd as it was us - Dalglish, alongside Shankley is the biggest legend in our clubs history and I'm not sure Solskjaer is quite that to Utd. Never the less, you only have to read these forums to see there's huge support for him getting the job already and if another manager doesn't hit the ground running there will be calls for Solskjaer quite quickly.

Assuming Utd do have a plan in place moving forwards and that Solskjaer isn't the best candidate for that job then they are faced with a huge decision. Utd are in the mess they are because they seemingly either haven't had a long-term plan or simply didn't have the conviction to stick to it. Too often they took the easy, short-term option because of short-term results. Sometimes you have to be brave and make a call that won't please everybody, if you believe it's the right decision and accept that there might be some short-term pain. Take Poch as an example. I can remember when he got the Southampton job - there was uproar when Adkins was sacked (as you can see here) but Southampton backed themselves that they were making a better appointment by bringing Poch in.

 

[adam cool dude]

But at the time bringing in Poch was a huge risk.They never had a clue how he was going to turn out but it worked for them. Also Solskjaer managing UTD is a completely different situation to King Kenny's second term. You need to compare it to his first as he was also an unknown at the time but took over in a much better position. (Liverpool were still pretty much the top club in England 30 years ago). If anything Kenny quitting Liverpool did more harm than good as that continuation of winning mentality was brought abruptly to an end.

 

[fez]

Like Baz and many of us have said, Solskjaer can't be judged until the end of the season. The problem is that we realistically can't actually give him until the end of the season if we want and think we can get Poch. I don't think we can get to the end of the season, decide we want Poch and sort that out in the first few weeks of the summer. If we want him, the groundwork and initial negotiations with Levy will be starting already.

The one thing that worries me about Solskjaer currently is his team selections. We should have played a much stronger first XI against Burnley and subbed players off once the game was won. As it was, we were lucky to scrape a draw due to a poor starting XI and a fired up Burnley. I know you need to rotate the squad but no games in the PL are a gimme and changing 4 of your first choice XI is just stupid.

It will be interesting to see what United do honestly. Its a hard decision currently.

 

[father-ted]

Who knows what the Board are planning....do they even know?
Ed Woowoo is a businessman with no footballing knowledge or even the ability to close down contract negotiations with top players.

Ole has done a cracking job so far, if he keeps this up until the end of the season then the Board have a real headache decision.
Although, it would be a lot cheaper for them if he does well and they let him have the job.

DoF?.....who knows, pointless even trying to guess them.

 

[placeholder]

Ed Woowoo is a businessman with no footballing knowledge or even the ability to close down contract negotiations with top players.

That is just not true though. Leaving aside the choice of personnel United have signed more high profile and expensive players in the last 5 years than in any other point in time. You may not agree with the names but they were highly complex and involved transfers and whatever else can be levelled at him he got them over the line with contracted signed and sealed.

 

[father-ted]

Sorry but I totally disagree here - the amount of players signed does not indicate he has done a good job, that comment is just silly.
You are also totally ignoring the players that he has lost / let slip through our fingers.
Look at how he messed up the Pedro transfer = player wanted to join us, Barca were willing to sell to us....he still messed it up....Chelsea took him whilst he was dawdelling around.
Bale transfer....he thought it was in the bag....he messed it up......Fellaini brought in instead LOL
Leighton Baines.....failed
Fabregas.....failed
LvG asked him for 3 defenders, a midfielder & a wide player.......he got 1 defender but not Vermaelen (as requested), DiMaria (who didn't want to be at Old trafford, we only really got him because PSG could not pay the fee, but we could) and Falcao.
Woowoo signed them in desperation - look how they ended.
There will be more but I don't think I need to go on here.
I am sure he missed a few transfer deadline day deals as well.

Businessman yes, football brain and an ability to get the right players and manage the negotiations = definitely NO!

 

[placeholder]

Vermaelen

Sorry but I totally disagree here - the amount of players signed does not indicate he has done a good job, that comment is just silly.
You are also totally ignoring the players that he has lost / let slip through our fingers.
Look at how he messed up the Pedro transfer = player wanted to join us, Barca were willing to sell to us....he still messed it up....Chelsea took him whilst he was dawdelling around.
Bale transfer....he thought it was in the bag....he messed it up......Fellaini brought in instead LOL
Leighton Baines.....failed
Fabregas.....failed
LvG asked him for 3 defenders, a midfielder & a wide player.......he got 1 defender but not Vermaelen (as requested), DiMaria (who didn't want to be at Old trafford, we only really got him because PSG could not pay the fee, but we could) and Falcao.
Woowoo signed them in desperation - look how they ended.
There will be more but I don't think I need to go on here.
I am sure he missed a few transfer deadline day deals as well.

Businessman yes, football brain and an ability to get the right players and manage the negotiations = definitely NO!

With respect most of that is rampant speculation.

The facts are that he closed out many many deals over the last 5 years to the tune of £800m+ of players. he managed all these negotiations fairly successfully I would suggest. the first window did not go well whether that was down to him of dawdling Dave we will never really know I suspect but that aside he seems to have secured many of the targets he was asked for and certainly I wouldn't use the non-signing of Baines, Pedro and Vermaelen as a stick to beat him!

Unless you are of course suggesting that Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho didn't pick the players that were signed and were happy to work with the random collection they were handed which I don't believe for a second.

 

[BaZ87]

To be fair, I think the role of the CEO, Chairman, DoF etc is often underplayed in terms of transfers. I'm not going to say Woodward was to blame for issues in the past because as you say, there's no real evidence to back anything up but dealing with in the transfer market isn't always as easy as identifiying players and writing cheques. There's all sorts of games that are played by clubs and agents and being able to understand and deal with these things are just as important.

It's something I felt Liverpool suffered with early on when we introduced our transfer committee/sporting director model. We didn't have the connections with agents and possibly got played chasing signings that weren't going to join us. We thought we had Diego Costa in the bag a year before he joined Chelsea but in the end he signed a new deal at Atletico.

One of the positives of having Mourinho as manager was that this was less of an issue for him - he always seemed to have good connections with the leading agents.

 

[FrankJH]

That is just not true though. Leaving aside the choice of personnel United have signed more high profile and expensive players in the last 5 years than in any other point in time. You may not agree with the names but they were highly complex and involved transfers and whatever else can be levelled at him he got them over the line with contracted signed and sealed.

doesn't have any baring on whether the team needed those big names at that time or not, or there was any tactical reason for buying them - they were bought only Because they were big names. Pogba, Di Maria, Sanchez at the very least were commercial signings led by marketing numbers/ twitter followers , regions of the world where Utd wanted to sell more shirts etc and not actually what a particular manager needed at the time (Pogba couldn't have been chosen by JM for instance because they arrived in the same summer, and that level of deal takes 18 months - 2 years to get negotiated). JM may well have agreed at the last minute, but its pretty obvious to anyone that it was never going to work between a player who needs freedom to express himself and a manager who wants more rigid and defined players / tactics. Im sure if JM actually had a choice of spending that ~£100m anywhere else it wouldn't have been on Pogba.

Sanchez and Di Maria were opportunistic signings with very little thought for the team - look at how Rashford /Martial were dovetailing brilliantly on the left wing between them from Aug - Dec and then hit a cliff as soon as Sanchez arrived and took that spot. Di Maria would have agreed to go nearly anywhere to get out of Madrid, and imo it was obvious Utd was always a 1 year escape route to PSG.

People on here were even saying the same summer of 16 and 17 but now it doesn't suit their purposes they argue the other angle. Even all the newspapers at the time of the Pogba deal were saying "Utd want to prove to other clubs they can still compete at the upper levels of the transfer market (and complete these deals)". It was always about marketing and getting the branding to be seen (at a time when Rooney was fast fading out of the picture and they needed a new main face for advertising).

 

[father-ted]

Unfortunately in the modern game, the Chairman, COE, DoF etc play the biggest part in the actual transfer dealings.
A manager usually gives them a list of players they would like, and off they go.
Mourinho gave him a list of defenders.....he didnt buy them.....plain to see now how flaky our defence is (I am not defending Mourinho here BTW, I am glad he is gone).

Yes United have repeatedly signed players from areas of the World where they want to sell more shirts (lots of Clubs do it) - and that is exactly what Woowoo is good at = the business side of his role.
Do you seriously think that the manager would ask for the likes of some of these signings? Not a chance.
He has been seen floundering numerous times on transfer dealings and has ballsed up some great signings that were in the bag - Pedro to Chelsea a prime example.

Woowoo is a clown from what I have seen and from what I have been told from sources close to the Club, he is nothing more than a lapdog for the Glazers.
If I had to rate his transfer dealings then it would be 'incompetent'.

 

[BaZ87]

While I agree with what you say about directors playing their part in transfers, the specific criticisms you've made aren't fair. Just because a manager gives his ceo or chairman a list of players, it doesn't mean he has to sign one of them. This idea about buying players to sell shirts drives me nuts too and simply isn't true. Do you think there's a big market for Utd merchandise in Chile?

Had you mentioned the lack of structure he's put in place, the inconsistent way Utd have dealt in the transfer market (not signing expensive ageing players, then signing some then not wanting to again) and reportedly being lead a run around by the likes of Ramos and more recently Bale then you'd have more of a point.

 

[placeholder]

We are dealing with press speculation in most of the names mentioned here. I was under the impression that the manager at the time got cold feet on the Pedro deal but if we are really suggesting that not signing Pedro is a stick to beat him with then I will respectfully disagree. This Summer was odd I will grant that to anyone saying that but what Im objecting to is the concept that a) He cant get deals done when has actually spent £800m and b) hes been playing Football Manager and signing players that he wanted and the managers didn't. Unless there is any hard evidence to back that up Im not entertaining the concept of shrinking violets like Mourinho and Van Gaal handing over a list of players they want and being presented with £800m of completely different players by the end of each window. That's just not credible.

Im not a massive fan of Woodward nor am I a huge critic, I just think its lazy to suggest he hasn't a clue what he is doing and cant close a deal when he has spent more money than anyone in his position. If we want to complain about signing players we need only look to the regime of the PLC that was in place before the Glazers took over when Fergie was being thwarted at every turn to sign top players. In the lists of things that have gone wrong at United since 2013 Woodward is probably on it, but he is well down the pecking order.

 

[_Jimlad_]

The reality is football has changed in the last 15 years. Woodwood and the manager are not the ones who sign players. It's a whole department of steak holders, scouts and financial players who will be involved. I am sure a massive list is generated by the current manager and that is whittled down to some viable players. I am sure in many cases woodwood just signs the cheque

 

[father-ted]

While I agree with what you say about directors playing their part in transfers, the specific criticisms you've made aren't fair. Just because a manager gives his ceo or chairman a list of players, it doesn't mean he has to sign one of them. This idea about buying players to sell shirts drives me nuts too and simply isn't true. Do you think there's a big market for Utd merchandise in Chile?

Had you mentioned the lack of structure he's put in place, the inconsistent way Utd have dealt in the transfer market (not signing expensive ageing players, then signing some then not wanting to again) and reportedly being lead a run around by the likes of Ramos and more recently Bale then you'd have more of a point.

Ok fair point, I put my point across there very badly, I concede.
You have pointed out some of his weknesses far better than I did.

He is very apt at the business side, EG:growing non-football revenues (sponsorships etc); but as a negotiator and the man in control of transfers he has repeatedly made himself and Utd look a joke.
Paper talk is paper talk we all know that, but it is not all lies and untruths is it? Quite often, they do talk a lot of sense (and truth)
Even if 50% was garbage (which it isnt), it still paints an extremely poor picture of him.
He has left negotiations too late (then other Clubs nip in and steal the prize) and has tried bartering other CLubs down too much and then the deal falls through.

Quite a few at the Club are unhappy with the way he works and you would expect somebody to be more skillful in their trade when they are working on behalf of one of the biggest Clubs in the World.

 

[The Running Man]

Give heem the job