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MSI: *Offical* N460GTX Hawk 1GB OC Edition thread

robgmun said:
Seems a touch better now, i only had one blue screen, but that was due to something goig on with the CPU, in all i'm convinced the card is fine and it's the motherboard that's causing the problem
Click to expand...

Bit of a bump for 2 reasons:

1) Got my pack from MSI, nice little bunch of pens, playing cards and a wrist 2gb usb stick!! (and some kind of sticker which i couldn't work out)

2) I replaced my storage drive and suddenly my system is a lot more stable, has not crashed once in the last week?!?!?

Could it be my PSU all along? It was 1000W so i never suspected it.
 
GTX460Hawk experience

So, there are few things about this card. Some good, some bad...


The bad ones:

1. Afterburner 2.0 Final isnt working, i cant change the voltage at all. Triplevoltage is not working, i see only 10% 20% 30% in three sliders and when i try to move with them, after apply, they return back to 10% 20% 30%.

2. In some games and graphic applications the card is making strange sound, like silent beeping or buzzing. Example 3D Mark Vantage, feature test 4 (cloth) and test 5 (particles) where it is more noticable...

3. I found that my piece is doing microstuttering, even if it is only one card. Example: World of Warcraft (ultra quality, except shadows on high), with Vsync i have all the time 60FPS (even in full Dalaran, aso.). But after using fraps benchmark for testing frametimes, it shows Average framerate 60FPS, Apparent framerate ! 56FPS ! which is really noticable on 60hz LCD. So even that the game is absolutely smooth, the picture isnt. In other games the microstutter is from 2% till 8% with Vsync on, without even 16%.

4. Without custom fan control, the fan is really loud even when it is not needed.

4. 1ghz Core Clock (stable) on Air is joke, only marketing... I believe that only few will be able OC core to 900Mhz and few Mhz above (stable).


The good ones:

1. Afterburner 1.6.1 is working and allow me to change voltage till 1.087.

2. The card is stable (30min OCCT without errors) on cc 895Mhz/mc 2000Mhz with core voltage 1.087. At cc 900Mhz OCCT start to show errors, but not much. Maybe i will be able to put memmory more but i think max. to 2040Mhz, which is not big deal vs 2000Mhz. But for me stable = 100% error free after 30mins of OCCT. Temperatures with 80% fan speed are max. 78 degree in OCCT.

3. Factory Core Votage of my piece is 0.962, when the card is 100% stable at cc 835Mhz /mm 2040Mhz. Or this voltage Afterburner and other programs read. Funny that card is stable at cc 800Mhz/ mc 2000Mhz at voltage 0.925, again OCCT 30min 100% error free.

4. Fan is able to keep card till 60 degree only with 45% fan speed in most games. In some cases even at 40% (WoW for example). From about 47% fan speed you start to hear the fan and the fan above 60% is starting to be annoying. But the good thing is that with custom fan profile you will really not need more then 60% fan speed, except brutal benchmarks like OCCT/Furmark, Kombustor, but strange that Kombustor isnt able to show you if card is really stable or not where Furmark will do that job. And ithought they are technically the same. Still i believe only OCCT.


3D Mark Vantage Score (PhysX on) cca: P 20500, GPU 17000, CPU 51000. So at this settings card is better then stock GTX470 and comparable to GTX470 with core clock at 700mhz, but with custom fan profile much more silent and cool.

So after all it is good card, but still iam not sure if i will keep it or not, in our country we can return this kind of things till 14 days if you buy them through internet. The thing with strange sounds from card, microstuttering and not working triplevoltage makes me nervous.
 
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Im having a strange problem , When i open up a GPU intensive app or run some game benchmarks , i get distorted / crackly sound for a couple of seconds ? im using onboard sound though ? via optical on my ASUS mobo , Ive tried 2 different realtek drivers and i get the same problem

Ive even tried windows own HD driver , Also i notice in device manager i have 4x Nvidia HD Audio drivers ? is this right

How can this be causing sound issues ?

Thanks
 
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kramatos said:
Its going from graphic card or repros? If from repros, try to look in BIOS and put HPET to 32bit or disable HPET.
Click to expand...

Hi... There is a beta version of AfterBurner now (v2.1) that should sort the +10+20+30 problem you appear to have been having.
See http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=330499

As a "heads up". I'm not sure I would trust the voltage display that Nvidia Inspector displays for this card! As there are issues with any software reading the voltage regulators on this card (see some of my earlier posts). Only guaranteed way, is to use a multi Meter on the V-check points. Something else that hopefully Unwinder (the guy that wrote RivaTuner / AfterBurner) is maybe going to fix / create a work round for, at some point.

Also surprised to hear you say that you think the fans are noisy. For me, as long as it's under 60%, it's almost inaudible. Though I suppose it depends to a certain extent on your case acoustics (along with a number of other variables I suppose).

Though I agree (as I've commented a few times already) that hitting 1GHz is pretty much a pipe dream for most (everyone!?).
 
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Ah thanks,
will try that one, but after all i think i will not have bettere results even with triple voltage.

And about that noise, for me Noctua NF-S12B at 1200 (100% speed, in reality its almost 1300) is noisy, not problem is about 900 (but still i hear it). So maybe i just have more sensitive ears, thats all. For me the card is at 40% almost inaudible. At 47% barelly audible, understand it like from 47% i just start to notice the fans of card coller. But at 60% it is really not inaudible, it dependes what is noise for you...

And about 1ghz = as i said, i think if you have luck you will be able to reach core about 900mhz stable in OCCT. Even i can put 920mhz and no game will fail and i dont see no other visual problem with game (except that microstutter which i dont know if it is because of card itself, but i guess it is...). But its not OCCT stable... And i dont even believe that in reviews where they reached even more than 930 Mhz, it was OCCT stable, and if card is doing errors, its just not stable.

EDIT: Added I2C bus index filtering in uP6262 voltage regulators detection code
to prevent voltage regulator detection conflicts with DDC on the systems
with some specific monitor models. The conflicts resulted in displaying
fake +10/+20/+30 voltages on MSI GeForce N460GTX Hawk series

Can it means that something what is written here can cause the microstuittering problem, because thats the only real thing why iam not sure about keeping the card. Its really great that you have even xxxFPS in some games, but for what is it, if the picture isnt smooth (game itself is).
 
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kramatos said:
Ah thanks,
will try that one, but after all i think i will not have bettere results even with triple voltage.

And about that noise, for me Noctua NF-S12B at 1200 (100% speed, in reality its almost 1300) is noisy, not problem is about 900 (but still i hear it). So maybe i just have more sensitive ears, thats all. For me the card is at 40% almost inaudible. At 47% barelly audible, understand it like from 47% i just start to notice the fans of card coller. But at 60% it is really not inaudible, it dependes what is noise for you...

And about 1ghz = as i said, i think if you have luck you will be able to reach core about 900mhz stable in OCCT. Even i can put 920mhz and no game will fail and i dont see no other visual problem with game (except that microstutter which i dont know if it is because of card itself, but i guess it is...). But its not OCCT stable... And i dont even believe that in reviews where they reached even more than 930 Mhz, it was OCCT stable, and if card is doing errors, its just not stable.

EDIT: Added I2C bus index filtering in uP6262 voltage regulators detection code
to prevent voltage regulator detection conflicts with DDC on the systems
with some specific monitor models. The conflicts resulted in displaying
fake +10/+20/+30 voltages on MSI GeForce N460GTX Hawk series

Can it means that something what is written here can cause the microstuittering problem, because thats the only real thing why iam not sure about keeping the card. Its really great that you have even xxxFPS in some games, but for what is it, if the picture isnt smooth (game itself is).
Click to expand...

Hello again.

- As to noise levels, as you imply "it's pretty subjective". Maybe I should have said "inaudible over my other case fans". I certainly don't find it intrusive.

- Regarding your 1GHz comment. I totally agree.

- Regarding the "micro stutter" you mention. Can't help I'm afraid, I've not noticed anything. Though it might depend on what games you play etc. Only real mention I've come across regards this, is with people running SLI set-ups. Though I see from GOOGLE that some people seem to have similar problems with a single card (though not just in relation to the HAWK version of the card). If I had to guess, I'd say it's most likely a graphics card driver issue. Bare in mind that there's only been one WHQL driver release since the 460's came out. And that there is supposed to be a new release later this month.
 
Yeah, the microstutter problem isnt only problem of Hawk, actually iam a bit crazy, first card i had, when i decided to build computer (for a lot of years i was using only notebook) was Gigabyte 460 768. There was nothing like microstutter with this card, only problem was that this card wasnt able to play smoothly WoW, thats why a return it.

Why? I found after with Gigabyte 460 1Gb OC. It is a bit longer story... So when i looked in GPU-Z i found that WoW use sometimes more then 800Mb of video memmory at resolution 1920x1080 with all maxed (16x Antialias, 8x Multisampling). But with this card started a new problem, i didnt knew at that time what it is, game was smooth, but picture was strange. I played usually always without Vsync, but on this card even if FPS was much more then 60FPS (depends on places), picture looked just strange when i was moving with character. So i tried several games, and same problem. Then i read that vsync can help. And yes it helped but still picture wasnt smooth as i should expect. After that i found that people call this microstuttering and that it is usually problem of SLI/cross. Then the card started to do classical buzzing sound under load, so i returned it.

After that i decided that i will take Gigabyte GTX470 SO. The microstuttering wasnt so high as with GTX460 1Gb, but still noticable. But with this card the problem was different, card was really bad, at factory OC it wasnt able to pass OCCT without errors and i saw that screen is shaking occasionally. So again i returned it as reclamation. It was confirmed and i decided to take money back.

After this, for me it was end of Gigabyte and because i was using Afterburner, i decided to take some MSI product. So in that time the Hawk arrived and i bought it. Actually today is the last day when i can return it and i cant decide if i will do it or not.

As i found for 60hz LCD (i have Dell U2311H IPS) for really smooth gameplay you need constant 60FPS, so Vsync all the time. But as i wrote, if it shows 60FPS and in the reality you see 56FPS, then the picture isnt smooth. If it would bee constant 56FPS, it would look smooth probably.

But here is the problem, at 60FPS with Vsync on you should see 1 frame every 16.666ms, if it is like this the picture is totally smooth. But if it is like frame 1 at 16.666, frame 2 at 34.332 (17.666), frame 3 at 49.998 (15.666) and frame 4 at 66.664 (16.666) then you will see something isnt good. So i guess its not problem of drivers (i tried official MSI drivers, Nvidia Drivers, even last beta drivers), but of card itself. And as you said, its not about company, but about card (and i think it has to do something with video Ram).
 
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kramatos.

Just a thought... but are you overclocking the memory? It's just that GDDR5 memory can be very good at hiding problems (due to it's inbuilt error correction) IE. it can appear that you can OC it quite high, but in fact it will start to hold you back long before you start seeing graphical anomalies!

I'm also thinking as you appear to have seen this "micro stuttering" in a couple of different cards, I'm wondering if it is something else in your PC causing an issue? I would also not totally discount that it could be a driver issue.

Good luck.
 
As i said, now only to 2000mhz and i dont think more is needed and no problems, so i never OCed memmory much. 2000Mhz should be able with every GTX460, because they r usually using Samsung 1ghz memmories. And about that microstuttering, the problem was and is even at stock clock, and again it wasnt problem of all cards, first 460 hadnt this problem, so as with GTX470 it wasnt noticable, almost... I think, its just my bad luck, if there would be some else problem with my hardware, it will not cause microstuttering, but i would see perhaps falls of FPS directly, lags, aso. This is direct problem of card, question is if the newer drivers are able to deal with it and i dont think so...
 
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kramatos said:
As i said, now only to 2000mhz and i dont think more is needed and no problems, so i never OCed memmory much. 2000Mhz should be able with every GTX460, because they r usually using Samsung 1ghz memmories. And about that microstuttering, the problem was and is even at stock clock, and again it wasnt problem of all cards, first 460 hadnt this problem, so as with GTX470 it wasnt noticable, almost... I think, its just my bad luck, if there would be some else problem with my hardware, it will not cause microstuttering, but i would see perhaps falls of FPS directly, lags, aso. This is direct problem of card, question is if the newer drivers are able to deal with it and i dont think so...
Click to expand...

In that case. Only one answer here. It's time to RMA it while you can. Because if you hang on to it and the new drivers don't sort it, then I expect you will be gutted.

As to your comment about being able to hit 1GHzx4 on all 460's. While this "should" be the case, it's not a universal truth. I've seen at least 2 reviews where they did extensive testing (not the case in all OL reviews by any means) and they found anything above 3.8GHz caused problems.
For example: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/09/20/msi_n460gtx_hawk_edition_video_card_review/6
This does in fact make me wonder why most manufacturers chose to "apparently" under-clock the memory. Worth pointing out that some of the special edition 460's use different memory to the standard cards.

Let us know how you get on.
 
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So i tried to retun the card, and answer from local store was that because of PCB has dust on it, they will give me less 10% from price, which is bull****. Its almost impossible to put the invisible dust out from PCB. So i kept the card and i will see, how it will look and never will buy something again from them. I just hope that the buzzing/beeping issue will not be more obvious. The microstuttering problem isnt still too big as it was with Gigabyte 1Gb. But really they ****ed me off, dust on PCB... If you open the box even in 1 hour there will be a few pieces of dust on it.

And that new Afterburner is actually more worst for me, then the 1.6.1. 1.6.1 allows me to to get 895 Mhz on core, this beta, even that all sliders works, allows me only 890 Mhz on core. And because i dont see with 2.0.1 the voltage as with 1.6.1 i think the 100 put it to 1.062 or 1.075 which isnt high enough for 895, but its actually minor problem... Still i dont like the idea that i cant see the probable voltage directly (GPU-Z shows the factory voltage all the time with 2.0.1), compared to 1.6.1.
 
kramatos

Sorry to hear about your problem.

Not like it helps you now. But always better to buy things like this O/L, that way you can send them back under the Distance Selling Regulations. Taking things back to a shop is pretty much always a pain, as they are not really under an obligation to take anything back unless it can be proved to be faulty (unless their terms and conditions state otherwise).

Sorry the beta version of AfterBurner did not help you.

I expect you've worked this out yourself... but version 1.6.1 of AfterBurner (from what I understand) is not actually reading the voltage (rather like GPUz and other software monitoring software). It's just displaying the voltage range for this card. So that when you add say 50mV, it just displays the stock 3D voltage + 50mV. IE. it's not actually reading this voltage off the card. The only accurate way to do this, is to use a Multi Meter. It's something to do with the voltage regulators used on the HAWK version of the card. Hence why later versions of AfterBurner just show a voltage offset (EG. +50 etc.). And as the voltage draw (if that's the correct term) between different GPU's, can vary, the voltage displayed by earlier versions of AfterBurner is probably not that accurate. Again hence why the change in how it's displayed in version 2.0 onwards. Quite happy for someone to prove me wrong here, but I have done extensive research and testing here, including speaking to the guy who developed AfterBurner and a couple of folks that wrote O/L reviews. Though I admit while having been involved with computers for some 30 years + (I'm an Analysts/Programmer) I would be the first to admit that I'm no electronics engineer.

What we need is Unwinder (the guy who developed AfterBurner / RivaTuner) to sort out the issues with reading the voltage regulators on these cards (if that's possible).

As to your noises. Are you absolutely sure it's from the graphics card? Sounds like it could be coil / capacitor whine to me and the standard culprits here are the PSU (my Tagan was a swine for that, hence why I now have a Corsair), or even the motherboard. Though graphics cards can also be guilty. With the MSI Cyclone / HAWK versions, I would think unlikely, due to the high grade caps they use. Always possible I suppose. Not being rude here, but it can sometimes be difficult to track noises down.

If your noises were being generated via your speakers (pops crackles buzzing etc.), then I would have suggested trying something like a DPC Latency Checker. But doesn't sound (excuse the pun) like your problem.

Sounds like you are stuck waiting for later drivers and maybe a later (IE. retail so to speak) version of AfterBurner.

Good luck.
 
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Ah its just i had not good day, so i let it, i didnt want to make speech fight. Actually i wasnt even sure if i should return the card, because microstuttering isnt so annoying as with GTX460 1Gb from Gigabyte, but its there. And with my luck i think with next card there would be again some problem, and almost 900Mhz core clock (OCCT error free) is for me really good score. Usually people say how easily they putted theyr 460s to 900Mhz, i believe it, but show me OCCT errors, and i bet you will see pretty high numbers. I tried even 910Mhz and even with errors in OCCT, Vantage worked perfectly with (P) GPU score 17,700 and Furmark too. But its about feeling, again stable = OCCT 100% error free. :D So actually i said to myself, i will return it if there will be no problem with shop, and if there will be some problem i will keep it.

The sound seems strange to me, its not classical beeping sound from cards, its more like buzzing, but it goes from card, iam sure about it. I tried to remove PSU and HDD before and the sound was from card. I cant almost hear it from 50% fan speed, but still its there in some parts of games or benchmarks. Vsync didnt helped with it.

And to voltage, i thing that Afterburner 1.6.1 is reading it relativelly good. As i said, if i put in Afterburner 1.6.1 voltage to 1.087 i can reach core clock without OCCT errors 895Mhz, with 2.0.1 i can reach "only" 890Mhz. Interesting thing is, when i let my OC profile from 1.6.1 with voltage 1.087, uninstall it and install 2.0.1, the GPU-Z still reads 1.087, will try tomorrow the OCCT test like this with 895mhz. Iam really curious about it.

EDIT: I was just thinking, if 1.087 will really stay on card, so with next 100 it should be really nice score or card RIP... :D But i dont think so, still 1.187 voltage should be really interesting.
 
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Doggie2k said:
hmmm I was going to go for a gtx470 but the price and the quietness and coolness from what you guys say I'm thinking about swinging to the hawk. How long is the card? I currently have a gtx260 and that just squeezes into my antec sonata case.
Click to expand...

Its a bit bigger, because of the cooler also the power points are at the side and not on the top
 
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