Multirotor, multicopter and quadcopter discussion - The Drone thread

d_brennen said:
Oh and Genoma, i googled that camera, spec suggest it is a shade under 200g :p you want an all in weight of ~500g on a 250 sized quad, otherwise its a bit of porker. The Mobius action cam weights in at 39g, worth a look

E: in Columbo style, one more thing - threadlock, medium strength. Just use it :p
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Thanks, looks like the canon camera was a bit ambitious to hook up then :) Will add the Mobious to the shopping list, can get it cheap from China. Is there a tilt mount/mini gimbal that would work with that? Was thinking in just attaching it with cable ties to the frame to start with.
 
Genoma said:
Thanks, looks like the canon camera was a bit ambitious to hook up then :) Will add the Mobious to the shopping list, can get it cheap from China. Is there a tilt mount/mini gimbal that would work with that? Was thinking in just attaching it with cable ties to the frame to start with.
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I'm going to make a gimbal for my Mobius that just does tilt, if when I have the time I'll document it here. I had a full on gimbal for my tricopter and found the lack of feedback regarding the attitude of the craft distracting for pure FPV flying. Looks great on videos but since I use the Mobius for FPV and recording.

The Mobius does have some delay due to image processing. It's something in the region of 100-200ms, but you do kind of get used to it. I've only found it a problem flying in tight wooded areas and even then it's possible to adjust your flying to accommodate it. I've just zip tied mine, padded with a bit of gyro foam. Zero wobble on the video and that is with no balancing at all.

Fatshark make a CMOS camera/gimbal that slots right into the slot in the front of the FPV250 frame. Linky - Image
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It has 2 servos which can be hooked up to a KK2/2.1 for stabilisation. No onboard recording so you'd need a PVR on the ground if you wanted to record and then the quality is nowhere near the Mobius.

R.E. your prop question above, the R denotes right hand rotation. You need one non-R and one R prop in a pair on most multi rotors (tricopters notwithstanding). Also refereed to as CW and CCW. A typical rotation setup would be

CCW CW
.....X.....
CW CCW

bear in mind that the Gemfan and the other copied props are hugely brittle and will likely disintegrate in contact with *anything*, so have plenty of spares to avoid a short and frustrating trip to your preferred flying site (been here, done that) :D

I just get mine from MyRCMart, usually take about 10 days to 2 weeks to arrive. These ones aren't Gemfan and are a little less robust but for the money are quite good. Hobbyking sell good 5030 triblades, from the UK warehouse too. Twice the price as myrcmart and they are ALWAYS out of stock of one rotation/colour so you can't get a set :mad:

As above, HQ props are a good choice for 5030 or 5045 (iirc) 2 blade props. A lot stiffer than the cheapo ones, but give a little less oomf

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I recognised the frames they sell, Teslaquad, I think it's teslahed or multi-rotor.co.uk and here :cool:

Ordered a couple of sets, curious to see if there is a discernible difference between 5030 and 5040 profiles. I suspect not but what the hell
 
Just got my email saying I've passed my BNUC-S :). So I can now safely say that it was pretty easy!

I got 98% which is 1 incorrect answer which is annoying as I think I know which one it is as the question was wrong; all the multiple choice answers suggested that either Maximum Take Off Mass increases or decreases with altitude. As anyone with a basic GCSE knowledge of physics knows mass != weight and either way the effect altitude has on weight is negligible. Annoying!

Don't know whether to mention the question and query the mark either, given I've still got my flight exam etc to go :p.

Still, glad that's all done and we also ordered our S1000 setup today too.
 
Col_M said:
HQ Props 5x3 props are great, you can get them in the UK for not much here - http://makeitbuildit.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=25_28

The difference between 5030 and 5030R are the 'R' ones are reversed so they rotate in the opposite direction :)
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Ordered a few spares thanks! The guy I bought the kit from on the bay also threw in a few spare sets FOC which is a good start to the deal. :)

The "R" is pretty obvious when I think about it now, was wondering why I couldn't find CW and CCW props lol!
 
d_brennen said:
I'm going to make a gimbal for my Mobius that just does tilt, if when I have the time I'll document it here. I had a full on gimbal for my tricopter and found the lack of feedback regarding the attitude of the craft distracting for pure FPV flying. Looks great on videos but since I use the Mobius for FPV and recording.

The Mobius does have some delay due to image processing. It's something in the region of 100-200ms, but you do kind of get used to it. I've only found it a problem flying in tight wooded areas and even then it's possible to adjust your flying to accommodate it. I've just zip tied mine, padded with a bit of gyro foam. Zero wobble on the video and that is with no balancing at all.


/walloftext
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Thanks very much for all the info. You know I ordered the Mobious without even considering FPV... I just wanted to record the flight, but this is definitely a plus for the future!

Keep us posted on the DIY gimbal, I also want to look into adding a few LEDs for orientation. May even be a little project to have them light on with one of the spare switch/channels on the radio.

For props will 5030 be the right size/pitch in both three blade and 2 blade configs? Or should I go with 5045 for 2 blade, 5030 for three blade? Or is it all a bit subjective? :)
 
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TBH I've ordered some 5030 and 5040 HQ two blade props to find out. In theory the higher pitch blades should offer a bit more lift, more comparable to 5030 triblades, but I have a feeling that at this size the difference will be small. Having said that, a small difference in trust makes a pretty noticeable difference in stability with such small, stout quadcopters as these. I'm more interested in seeing the difference these will make to survivability in minor crashes/awkward landings. I went through about six props on Sunday trying to thread my FPV250 through some tight gaps in the trees but the biggest killer was the long grass :p

e: I've read that 5030 triblades are roughly equivalent to 6030 two blades thrust wise. IDK how accurate this is though. The triblades do have much higher drag so will reduce flight times a bit.

Out of interest, what batteries did you order? I've tried to stay with mini JST version because the connector is smaller and lighter, but XT60 connector batteries are far more common, especially from HK

You'll need the Mobius FPV cable to get video out, they usually come without one, there is a way to hack a normal mini USB cable but it's such a ballache and the cables can be had for a few USD from the likes of Banggood...
 
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I've ordered a two different batteries to try out, different weight and capacity to see which run well with the RCX motors.

I've also ordered a few 5030 2 blade HQs. Hope they will be OK but I've got a few of the 3 blades spare coming with the kit.

The batteries I got were 1x Turnigy 1000mAh 3S 89g and 2X Turnigy 1500mAh 3S 124g both are XT60. Wanted to see which would be the best for the RCX motors.

What video kit are you using for FPV? I've done no research on it yet as I still need to learn to fly! :)
 
Bog standard Boscam 200mw tx and RC305 rx, both with circular polarised antenna. Unable range is further than I'd want to fly a 250 size quad and obstacles like trees aren't much of a problem. I do have a 5.8ghz bare module to tinker with, which will save some weight. I'm using a 7" 800x600 monitor from Banggood, which is the only item I'm not that impressed by. The picture quality and brightness are fine but the screen is glossy (WHY!?!) and the viewing angle sucks donkey danglies
 
Looks like I've got a gig with my Vision. Bloke at work is pimping his car and when he's finished he wants me to film it from different angles etc. I already have a few ideas :)

He also wants me to film a wedding, again from different angles. It sounds good but Im fairly sure it wont happen due to 'laws' with using a 'drone' in public places.
 
I wouldn't touch a wedding with a barge pole when it comes to UASs. Nothing significant anyway. I run a wedding videography business and we're hoping to be either the first or one of the first to offer aerial filming (legally), but that would only be for empty aerial shots of the venue and some long range shots of the couple.

Wedding guests are rowdy and drunk at the best of times let alone when you introduce a UAS.

Also yes, you'll be breaking many laws. In fact filming anything commercially (so your colleague's car too) is also breaking the law, whether its paid for or not. Be careful :). It takes a lot of hard work to gain CAA permission so most people who have it are very protective of the industry (and rightly so) and you may even get a whistle-blower.
 
I'm not sure filming a colleagues car would be commercial.... Commercial to me means for your own financial gain, you can give you services to others. Though if they then use the footage commercially does that then filter down to you ? (I can't see it myself)

Edit do the rules you have to comply with commercially apply to those who are not commercial... I'm not sure they all do. For example a surfer asks me to film him and his mates just for fun, I don't have control of the area, there are areas within xyz distance not in my control. Too be honest the CAA won't give a monkeys.

Now if I set up a commercial website and do not have the qualification, then that is another matter

I'm going to do the BNUC-S maybe next year... Have a whole bunch of cracking domain names ready. Won't be doing weddings though :-)
 
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Unfortunately it does. Commercial doesn't just mean financial gain, it can be any gain or benefit. The official statement is:

Aerial work, as described in the Air Navigation Order, means any purpose (other than public transport) for which an aircraft is flown if valuable consideration is given or promised in respect of the purpose of the flight.
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And yes, the rules apply to everyone, some even apply to people flying purely for fun without a camera attached (CAP 393 166 if you want to know the full details).
 
Hi mate thanks for the info. I guessed the rules applied to everyone... the guy I was flying with the other day who had BNUC-S said he still had to log all flights etc even when not doing commercial work.

I do disagree on the commercial aspect though.. 'any gain or benefit', this would cover I guess anything financial, or of help / promotion to a business even if unpaid. It would probably not cover taking shots of someones car so he can put it on his personal facebook page for example... or filming a mates wedding venue for free. (assuming sticking with CAA guidelines on distances etc)

There was recently a guy on a Phantom facebook group who got a angry letter from the CAA, he was actually grassed up by a large UK based aerial photography company.I know of several people doing freelance work estate agents already, totally illegally.... and I can understand those with the qualification are going to want them out of the market.


Can I ask a question, just how much work was the BNUC-S, I want to do it, but cannot sacrifice large amounts of time to it due to work commitments :(. I think the market is going to saturate very very quickly, though there are a lot of specialized areas people can focus on.


Here is the commerciale blurb from CAA website

'You must request permission from the CAA if you plan to:
•fly the aircraft on a commercial basis (i.e. conducting ‘aerial work’)
or
•fly a camera/surveillance fitted aircraft within congested areas or closer (than the distances listed within Article 167) to people or properties (vehicles, vessels or structures) that are not under your control

Permission is not required if:
•the aircraft will not be flown close to people or properties, and you will not get ‘valuable consideration’ (i.e. payment) from the flight, then a permission is not needed;

Permission is also not required for ‘practice’ or demonstration flights. However, the other requirements of Articles 166 and 167 must still be complied with, and it must also be ensured that no one is endangered while flying the aircraft.
'


This link is interesting. Seems for UAVs flying FPV under 3.5KG a lot of rules don't apply. A F550 for example is classed as a SUA, a S800 is not :(

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEIQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.caa.co.uk%2Fdocs%2F33%2FORS4%2520No.%25201011%2520Small%2520Unmanned%2520Aircraft.pdf&ei=nZF9U6bPGOzQ7Aay-4C4BQ&usg=AFQjCNH7JXRDDwjG0LwYi4tO4jvrAjnCuw&sig2=BFFBNMLq-6FA0x_6FIZJCQ&bvm=bv.67229260,d.ZGU

fly for fun (including flying for someone else to have fun with)
fly a SUA under 3.5KG
stay in visual range 500m (with an observer if FPV)
stay 150m away from crowds of greater than 1000 people and don't over fly them
stay at least 150m from congested areas and don't over fly them
stay 30m away from people except landing or takeoff and your observer (might be 50m)
stay 50m away from non controlled buildings etc
stay below 304.8m (this is so much nicer than the old 400ft limit as 300m can give some great photos of sunsets etc :))
Do not fly in Class A, C, D or E airspace unless permission of the appropriate air traffic control unit has been obtained; These classes of airspace cover massive areas of the country, but in theory a quick call to ATC could easily clear you. I'm gonna get the phone number for my local ATC and ring them daily lol (they are gonna grow to hate me)
 
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I know it's a ***** but if commercial was only monetary then that would be a massive loophole. You could even still get paid and just claim that any UAV aspect of a project was free and you were just charging for pre or post-production, for example.

And yes, logs are to monitor airworthiness so these of course apply to every flight, not just commercial ones. Same as pilot hours.

Difficult to say about the BNUC-S. Though it's taken a few days so far I found it very easy, but saying that at least 4 out of the 9 people I've heard from afterwards failed it and need to re-sit or give up. The harder and longer bit is to come though, the Operation Manual and Flight Exam etc.

Every industry is saturated so that doesn't bother us too much. No doubt there'll be a load people and companies doing it badly so that'll just make us look better :p.
 
Thanks, I'm gonna have to give it a shot, if only to justify the rising bills to missus lol

I can see what you are saying they need to cover people trying to say the 'flight' part is free... but end of day the commercial 'job' as a whole is payed so you need CAA approval.

As long as every aspect of the flight / filming is of no commercial use at all all should be well.

If I take a video of a mates wedding venue and pop it on youtube or make a DVD for him while adhering to flight guidelines I will of done nothing wrong at all. (not saying I'm gonna do that as it's not the area I want to get into)

Obviously if someone wants high quality footage they will need to pay for it, that I guess is where your S800 will shine and command good prices I suspect :)
 
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