Multirotor, multicopter and quadcopter discussion - The Drone thread

[Feek]

Is this a legal flight?

It's not legal for a few reasons.

The big one is the altitude. He's going over 120m which is the hard ceiling for drones. Anything above that and you're risking getting involved with other air traffic. He goes up to over 170m. Very, very illegal.

He says he's enabled FCC which means he's using illegal frequencies in the UK. People have been done for this.

He's beyond visible line of sight.

 

[darael]

It's not legal for a few reasons.

The big one is the altitude. He's going over 120m which is the hard ceiling for drones. Anything above that and you're risking getting involved with other air traffic. He goes up to over 170m. Very, very illegal.

Is it actually at 120m that you start to risk encountering other aircraft? To me that seems quite a low altitude for larger air traffic, such as helicopters.

Depending on how you look at it, higher altitudes could be achieved legally by taking off halfway up a large hill or mountain. But then you wouldn't expect to see much air traffic near hills or mountains, as they'll simply fly either around or over them.

 

[Feek]

Is it actually at 120m that you start to risk encountering other aircraft? To me that seems quite a low altitude for larger air traffic, such as helicopters.

It definitely increases the risk. I've often seen helicopters around this area at around 500ft and he was above that. 170 m is 557 ft.

Depending on how you look at it, higher altitudes could be achieved legally by taking off halfway up a large hill or mountain

Nope, it doesn't matter where you take off from, the drone should never be above 120m AGL. If you take off on the side of a hill, fly up to 120m AGL and then fly horizontally away from the hill, you're flying illegally. The software will still only show 120m because it's calculated from your take off point but as you're actually higher than 120m AGL, it's illegal. It's the responsibility of the operator to know that and descend appropriately.

 

[darael]

It definitely increases the risk. I've often seen helicopters around this area at around 500ft and he was above that. 170 m is 557 ft.


Nope, it doesn't matter where you take off from, the drone should never be above 120m AGL. If you take off on the side of a hill, fly up to 120m AGL and then fly horizontally away from the hill, you're flying illegally. The software will still only show 120m because it's calculated from your take off point but as you're actually higher than 120m AGL, it's illegal. It's the responsibility of the operator to know that and descend appropriately.

I've always understood the limit to be 120m from take off level. What if you're on top of a 300m hill and take off? Should you descent 180m? That doesn't make sense to me and is why I don't exceed 120m from take off level.

 

[Feek]

I've always understood the limit to be 120m from take off level.

Nope.

What if you're on top of a 300m hill and take off? Should you descent 180m?

Yes.

Where you can fly drones | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Find out about height limits and distances from people, buildings, crowds and vehicles. Restrictions on flying drones and model aircraft near airports.

register-drones.caa.co.uk

Your drone or model aircraft must never be more than 120m (400ft) from the closest point of the earth’s surface.

If you fly where the ground falls or rises, such as over hills, mountains or cliffs, you may need to adjust your flight path so that your drone or model aircraft is never more than 120m (400ft) from the closest point of the earth’s surface.

 

[darael]

Nope.

Yes.

Where you can fly drones | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Find out about height limits and distances from people, buildings, crowds and vehicles. Restrictions on flying drones and model aircraft near airports.

register-drones.caa.co.uk

Your drone or model aircraft must never be more than 120m (400ft) from the closest point of the earth’s surface.

If you fly where the ground falls or rises, such as over hills, mountains or cliffs, you may need to adjust your flight path so that your drone or model aircraft is never more than 120m (400ft) from the closest point of the earth’s surface.

Even that picture shows 120m from the top of the hill, so I'll keep on doing what I have been. Anything else doesn't make sense to me and that picture confirms it - unless I'm completely missing something.

 

[Feek]

Even that picture shows 120m from the top of the hill, so I'll keep on doing what I have been. Anything else doesn't make sense to me and that picture confirms it - unless I'm completely missing something.

You are completely missing something.

"Your drone or model aircraft must never be more than 120m (400ft) from the closest point of the earth’s surface.

If you fly where the ground falls or rises, such as over hills, mountains or cliffs, you may need to adjust your flight path so that your drone or model aircraft is never more than 120m (400ft) from the closest point of the earth’s surface."

How can you misinterpret that?

You're standing on top of a hill which is 300m ASL. You take off and fly up to 120m above the ground. At this point, you're 120m above the closest point of the earth's surface which is the top of the hill. That's absolutely fine, no problem at all. However, as soon as the ground falls away, you have to descend so you're never more than 120m from the closest point of the earth's surface.

You fly horizontally so the drone is no longer above the hill. Your drone is now 420m above the closest point of the earth's surface, somewhat higher than the 120m which is allowed.

The picture demonstrates it perfectly, your drone can't have more than 120m of air between it and the ground.

There's nothing stopping you taking off from the top of a hill but once that ground drops away, you need to lower your drone.

Take it one step further. you're on a welsh mountain peak at 1000m. You take off and only go up a couple of metres but then you fly your drone into the valley which puts you at 1002m above the bottom of the valley. A fast jet comes through on a training mission, your drone gets sucked into the jet intake and down goes the aircraft. Luckily, the pilot ejects.

In court, would you still be arguing that your drone is only 120m above the ground?

 

[darael]

You are completely missing something.

"Your drone or model aircraft must never be more than 120m (400ft) from the closest point of the earth’s surface.

If you fly where the ground falls or rises, such as over hills, mountains or cliffs, you may need to adjust your flight path so that your drone or model aircraft is never more than 120m (400ft) from the closest point of the earth’s surface."

How can you misinterpret that?

You're standing on top of a hill which is 300m ASL. You take off and fly up to 120m above the ground. At this point, you're 120m above the closest point of the earth's surface which is the top of the hill.

You fly horizontally so the drone is no longer above the hill. Your drone is now 420m above the closest point of the earth's surface, somewhat higher than the 120m which is allowed.

The picture demonstrates it perfectly, your drone can't have more than 120m of air between it and the ground.

There's nothing stopping you taking off from the top of a hill but once that ground drops away, you need to lower your drone.

Take it one step further. you're on a welsh mountain peak at 1000m. You take off and only go up a couple of metres but then you fly your drone into the valley which puts you at 1002m above the bottom of the valley. A fast jet comes through on a training mission, your drone gets sucked into the jet intake and down goes the aircraft. Luckily, the pilot ejects.

In court, would you still be arguing that your drone is only 120m above the ground?

I've just clicked now, helped after reading a Reddit thread then your post.

It’s not 120m / 400 feet above you. It’s that the drone can fly a maximum of 120m above the ground. So if you are standing on a flat surface, you can fly to 120m. If you fly over a hill which is 50m high, then the drone can go up another 50m in the air. If you fly over a valley which dips 50m below your start point, then your maximum height is 50m lower.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dji/comments/146po6o/drone_height_limit_in_uk_contradictory_rules/

I feel better knowing that I wasn't the only confused one.

 

[Feek]

I'm glad you've got it - I think the CAA page is blindingly obvious

 

[darael]

I'm glad you've got it - I think the CAA page is blindingly obvious

I think it should be a bit clearer and this is reinforced by the fact some are equally as confused as me until it was spelt out.

Sorry if it seemed as though I was bickering or arguing for the sake of it, but I guess that's how we learn from others - helping them to understand things by putting it another way.

 

[Feek]

Sorry if it seemed as though I was bickering or arguing for the sake of it, but I guess that's how we learn from others - helping them to understand things by putting it another way.

No problem

DJI have recently been enforcing the 120m limit in some countries and it's been getting a lot of kickback because if you imagine the opposite to the situation I've described above.

You take off at the bottom of a hill which is 300m high and you want to fly to the top. You fly to 120m and then approach the hill. In theory, you should be able to climb but the enforced limit stops you going above 120m. The only way to do it is to land so that the drone resets its base point and then take off again to get the extra height.

It's a mess.

 

[darael]

My PH000 screwdriver arrived today and it's so much better than the stock one. It doesn't jump out of the screw while you're nipping the screw up. My screws were fairly well done up anyway, but this screwdriver doesn't leave any doubt in my mind and I feel more confident using it.

Here is the screwdriver compared with the one supplied by Master Airscrew.

Spoiler: Comparison of tips

 

[Demon]

Never used any of those and I’ve done a lot of soldering over the years. A damp sponge to wipe the tip each time you pick the iron up off the stand and again before you put it down and that’s it.

Same here.. just the damp sponge and that's it.. I have some soldering iron tip cleaner, but never had to use it..

However, poor quality soldering irons with poor temperature control can get so hot they ruin their tips quickly, so likely this may be the issue.. I normally use a 34 year old Weller soldering iron though, but I've not had any issues with my little USB-C TS80 I use when portable, but both have excellent temperature control.

My PH000 screwdriver arrived today and it's so much better than the stock one. It doesn't jump out of the screw while you're nipping the screw up. My screws were fairly well done up anyway, but this screwdriver doesn't leave any doubt in my mind and I feel more confident using it.

Here is the screwdriver compared with the one supplied by Master Airscrew.

Spoiler: Comparison of tips

The bottom one looks like it was out of a Christmas cracker!

From my RC Car days I invested in proper hex keys/screwdrivers it's a revelation.. I got an iFixit kit a few Chrismases ago, I find it a bit so-so in terms of tip quality, and considering my wife/kids love buying we Wera stuff as presents, I should see if they want to buy me a nice set for fathers day!

 

[Feek]

Here is the screwdriver compared with the one supplied by Master Airscrew.

That looks a lot better, I think it's probably worth grabbing one to keep in the drone bag. Do you have the eBay item number please?

I normally use a 34 year old Weller soldering iron though

Same. It's temperature controlled but no idea what the temperature is!

It's just always there on the edge of my desk, waiting to be switched on and used.

Spoiler

When I left the factory I was working at in 1987, I *ahem* unofficially took my soldering iron with me so I've had it at home for around 37 years. I don't know how clear it is but the original owner burned his name on the front and then when I started working there, I burned it out and tried to burn my name underneath.

I've even done basic surface mount stuff with this iron

 

[darael]

That looks a lot better, I think it's probably worth grabbing one to keep in the drone bag. Do you have the eBay item number please?

Wera Kraftform ESD Micro Precision Screwdrivers Slot,PH,Pozi,Hex,Torx Nut Spin, | eBay

Wera Kraftform ESD Micro Precision Screwdrivers Slot,PH,Pozi,Hex,Torx Microstix, Nut Spinner - Choose. Kraftform Micro screwdrivers. Multi-component Kraftform Micro handle for fast and ergonomic screwdriving.

www.ebay.co.uk

That should select the correct tip too, but if not it's ESD Phillips PH000x40mm.

 

[Feek]

Ta, that'll do nicely.

 

[Priapus]

where is a comprehensive guide to flying a drone in the UK?

I’m relocating to the UK next month and want to bring the DJI drone with me. But if I can’t fly it in many places I might sell it instead.

 

[Feek]

where is a comprehensive guide to flying a drone in the UK?

I’m relocating to the UK next month and want to bring the DJI drone with me. But if I can’t fly it in many places I might sell it instead.

Where you can fly drones | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Find out about height limits and distances from people, buildings, crowds and vehicles. Restrictions on flying drones and model aircraft near airports.

register-drones.caa.co.uk

 

[Priapus]

Where you can fly drones | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Find out about height limits and distances from people, buildings, crowds and vehicles. Restrictions on flying drones and model aircraft near airports.

register-drones.caa.co.uk

So, basically you can't really fly it anywhere. Maybe in a park, if no one is around or an empty beach.

 

[Dano]

Is it actually at 120m that you start to risk encountering other aircraft? To me that seems quite a low altitude for larger air traffic, such as helicopters.

400 feet/120m is the limit for drones as aircraft should be above 500 feet/152m which generally gives a reasonable separation distance, but there are many reasons aircraft can be flying lower than 500 feet, I live in an area the military use for training and we very often have chinooks and other craft flying around at low level.

So, basically you can't really fly it anywhere. Maybe in a park, if no one is around or an empty beach.

Sub 250g drones can be flown in lots of places so long as you are sensible about where you are taking off and landing from, anything heavier is far more restricted but that can also be somewhat alleviated by joining an organisation such as FPVUK which will get you Article 16 authorisation which will then allow you to legally fly in parks with a risk assessment proviso: https://fpvuk.org/membership-benefits/ they have a link to the handbook that gives a full breakdown here: https://fpvuk.org/caa-article-16-operational-authorisation-uas-7068/