New and shocking footage of British troops torturing Iraqis...

cleanbluesky said:
I believe what he originally said is that if that is the punishment that has been prescribed then he would support it... rather than the idea that he considers it desirable...

But then he just said that Islam recommends reasoning over blind faith. So is he saying that he supports something in Islamic law that he personally finds wrong, just because it is Islamic law? So instead of doing what he believes is right, he'll do what he thinks his god wants? I haven't seen him give a clear unambiguous answer to any of this yet.
 
dirtydog said:
I'm bored of the subject. You think the beatings were acceptable, I don't - after umpteen pages what more is there to say on it.

I dont think the beatings are acceptable, I don't think a conclusion can be drawn on the basis of the video footage alone
 
dirtydog said:
So are you saying that you have sat down and thought about it, and in your reasoned considered opinion it is desirable and justified to stone gay people to death for being gay..

I've mentioned the gay thing before. I don't know the full Law, especially the Law of the Hanafi school which I come from. I did a brief 10 minutes search on google and it appears that the punishment for gays outside of marriage is to be flogged, but for those inside of marriage it is to be stoned.

To me it sounds like a harsh but necessary punishment, so not only does it deter me from being homosexual, but also from comitting homosexual acts.
 
I think most of us would agree that it is harsh. On personal opinion alone, do you think it is worse to have a society whereby people are stoned or where there are a few homosexuals?
 
@if ®afiq said:
I've mentioned the gay thing before. I don't know the full Law, especially the Law of the Hanafi school which I come from. I did a brief 10 minutes search on google and it appears that the punishment for gays outside of marriage is to be flogged, but for those inside of marriage it is to be stoned.

To me it sounds like a harsh but necessary punishment, so not only does it deter me from being homosexual, but also from comitting homosexual acts.

Do you support it because you personally believe it to be right, or just because it is Islamic law? By the sounds of it, it is both?

Out of interest, why do you think that consenting adults "committing homosexual acts" is so terrible as to warrant flogging or stoning to death? Isn't it a victimless "crime"?
 
dirtydog said:
Out of interest, why do you think that consenting adults "committing homosexual acts" is so terrible as to warrant flogging or stoning to death? Isn't it a victimless "crime"?

Speaking from a Christian perspective, if the act offends God, then you've got a victim right there.

Not sure if @if would agree with me on that, so I'll wait and see what he says.
 
This video probably shows 10% of the whole story. It needs to be placed into context....why did the soldiers beat those people; what made them do this; something must have pushed those soldiers to the extent that they used physical violence against those people. All those facts we don't actually know, do we? It's all speculation, rumour and fabrication.

This is going to shock a few people here, but contrary to popular belief soldiers don't wake up one day and say to themselves: "Cor, I say old chap that was a bloody good Capt'n Winkie rogering last night! Time to kick the brown stuff out of some civvies today! Hoorah!!"

My 2p.

Go back to your arguing :P
 
vonhelmet said:
Speaking from a Christian perspective, if the act offends God, then you've got a victim right there.

Not sure if @if would agree with me on that, so I'll wait and see what he says.

My view on that would be that if god doesn't like it, he can lump it..
 
cleanbluesky said:
Have you never tried hard to please another DD?

Not god. If someone wants to spend their whole life trying to please their imaginary friend in the sky then that's up to them, so long as they don't hurt anyone else. I'd say stoning people to death for their sexuality crosses the line a tad though.
 
Are our ROE fundementally any different to that of the US army ? as if not then these muppets who were throwing rocks and home made explosives at British troops are damn lucky they didn't end up with a 5.56 round through their head. If our Rules of Engagement are in any way similar to that of the US army then they would have been perfectly within their rights to shoot them. Would that have been better than a bit of a beating ?

The ideas pranced about by some in here are ridiculous, obviously they were poor innocent people minding their business when suddenly some evil british soldiers plucked them off the streets and administered a beating, umm ******** they were attacking the soldiers. As for some of the crying "oohh but it makes us as bad as them" no if we were as bad as them we would have paraded them around on tv and then videoed our soldiers cutting thier heads off, not given them a bit of a slapping.

The News of the world will have blood on their hands for this, all for the sake of selling a few more copies of their trashy paper, why not give the info to the MoD and then publish the story when those involved have been punished. Ahh because that would sell less papers, and the blood of our soldiers is not worth a few newspapers. I hope that the little **** who sold the footage to the NOTW has been on the recieving end of one hell of a kicking, doing something that will no doubt kill other British servicemen for money, what a shining beacon of humanity.

I would be interested to seewhat ordinary Iraqis think of this, as considering that these people who were beaten up are the ones making their lives hell, i'm not sure how bothered they would actually be, i bet a good few would think that it wasn't enough. These Insurgents are not all fighting an ideological war, especially in the south. They are Criminals, nothing more nothing less, organised gangs of armed criminals, preying on the fact that especially at this time there was no law and order, so they are not poor people fighting an evil invading force, they are criminals fighting the only thing close to a police force in Iraq at the time.
 
dirtydog said:
Not god. If someone wants to spend their whole life trying to please their imaginary friend in the sky then that's up to them, so long as they don't hurt anyone else. I'd say stoning people to death for their sexuality crosses the line a tad though.

I was questioning whether the mechanism that would make non-Christian/Islamic/Jews please another would be the same as might be happening in such a situation...
 
cleanbluesky said:
I think most of us would agree that it is harsh. On personal opinion alone, do you think it is worse to have a society whereby people are stoned or where there are a few homosexuals?

That's really not a fair question. Obviously stoning people is a punishment and homosexuality is a illegal. So, in effect you are asking me to choose between a punishment and a crime.
 
dirtydog said:
Do you support it because you personally believe it to be right, or just because it is Islamic law? By the sounds of it, it is both?

I believe it is a grave sin and as such requires a harsh punishment.

DD said:
Out of interest, why do you think that consenting adults "committing homosexual acts" is so terrible as to warrant flogging or stoning to death? Isn't it a victimless "crime"?

Re-read what I said. It is not about consenting adults. Those who are outside of wedlock getting flogged. Those who are in wedlock (i.e married to a women) and comit(sp?) a homosexual act pay the ultimate price.
 
What a storm in a teapot, I've seen worse treatment on a Saturday night out than what was shown in that video, just a way of selling more papers to be honest and the upshot it puts the men on the ground in more danger.

The sooner we are out of Iraq the better IMHO.

HEADRAT
 
@if ®afiq said:
I believe it is a grave sin and as such requires a harsh punishment.

Re-read what I said. It is not about consenting adults. Those who are outside of wedlock getting flogged. Those who are in wedlock (i.e married to a women) and comit(sp?) a homosexual act pay the ultimate price.

/shakes head in disbelief and disgust

Just remind me, you consider yourself moderate don't you?
 
vonhelmet said:
Speaking from a Christian perspective, if the act offends God, then you've got a victim right there.

Errr...no quite. I don't see how God could be a victim of anything. He is above all things.

...but it is God's Law that homosexuality is a sin, and if that Law is broken then the correct actions need to be carried out.
 
@if ®afiq. said:
...but it is God's Law that homosexuality is a sin, and if that Law is broken
then the correct actions need to be carried out.

I sorry but I'm going to have to use the :rolleyes:

While I respect your right of freedom of speech this kind of religious dogma makes me wanna puke!! What a lovely place it would be to live with anybody who isn't normal (based on some religious belief) is executed or similar, if that is your idea of a paradise on earth then you're ****** up!

HEADRAT
 
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@if ®afiq said:
Errr...no quite. I don't see how God could be a victim of anything. He is above all things.

...but it is God's Law that homosexuality is a sin, and if that Law is broken then the correct actions need to be carried out.
You just seem to be painting yourself as a victim of religious dogma, exopunding archaic and barbaric practises.

You don't agree with homosexuality? Fine, but don't hide behind a cloak of faith to excuse inhumane acts.
 
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