New and shocking footage of British troops torturing Iraqis...

VIRIII said:
Atif rafiq it is pretty simple.
On the one hand you feel that stoning gay people to death is perfectly ok and on the other you complain about these four lads getting bashed up as though it was the worst crime ever committed.
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Not all gays are stoned. I made this clear before. Those that are within marriage and commit homosexual acts may be stoned, but I am not fully certain on the Law.

And what’s with the “worst crime in the World” thing? Once again you are trying to twist what I am saying.

VIRIII said:
Not one have I ever heard you condemn the actions of the Taliban, not once, not ever. The cruelty that these people dished out to the Afghans is incredible, they were very sick men indeed. Yet you brush it off, it isn't something you will acknowledge because ...... they are muslims.
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Hmmm…you really do have your own memory hole don’t you?:

me @ post #350 said:
The Taliban were extremely strict in the way they followed Islam, to the point of even going against some of the basic i.e. no compulsion is religion. That being said, they bought the much needed stability to the country, and not to mention the near total eradication of poppy production.
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(Bold emphasis is mine)

VIRIII said:
You whine about the occupation of Iraq and say let the Iraqi people free themselves.
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The reason I “whine” about Iraq is because it was an unjust war waged on a defenceless country that has so far cost the lives of up to 250,000+ civilians. Now, if that is worth “whining” about, then I don’t know what is. Saddam Hussein would have been proud of that figure!

VIRIII said:
Just how are they going to do that then? They can't do it alone as you've already stated. So on the one hand you want them to do it alone and on the other you complain that the US did not help them enough in GW1. Decide, which is it to be?
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If we really wanted the Iraqi’s to govern themselves, we would have given them both political and if need be military, in the form of weapons, help. However, as is clearly evident by how the US let the Shiites in the South get butchered, that has never been “our” intent.

I’ve told you this before. I’ve citied to you the quote from NYT about the US wanting an “iron fisted junta”. I can even give you quotes about Iraqi generals who were refused access to Iraqi arms dumps by the US army. Or maybe the fact that Stormin Norman gave Saddam authorisation to fly his gun ships.

VIRIII said:
What I see from your posts is that if a Muslim commits an act of violence or gives a beating or tortures another then you either pretend it isn't happening, refuse to comment or brush it off with "well at least the Taliban brought stability".
Yeah so did Saddam, but at what price? Islam by the gun.
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Once again you try and twist my words. When have I pretended that those things don’t happen? Can you cite one single sentence where I have said that?

As for the Taliban bringing stability, ask the Afghanis if the Taliban bought stability or the warlords who now rule the country. This is not something that I have just made up or read on a “militant Islamic website”.
 
cleanbluesky said:
So my question is - when you have proven yourself to be far from unable to critically analyse information - would you let any ideology override your own opinion?
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Eh??? I analyse as best as I can. If that is not up to your lofty standards then I can't help that.

As for the second part of that "question", when you say ideology - do you mean Islam?
 
@if ®afiq said:
Start a thread about abuse and injustice anywhere in the World and I will comment on it.

To suggest that I condone this “culture of beatings” because of my supposed “silence”, just shows how good your analytical skills are.
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But you already have commented on it.

You have declared that the troops should not have gone into Iraq, a country that was ruled by a brutal dictator, one in which people were tortured and killed daily, one in which mass graves have been found containing "detainees", or people who simply didn't agree with the ruling body. Not for them the "luxury" of a beating....they had to die!!.

One in which justice was meted out on a whim and sections of the population gassed for no other reason that they a) were Kurds and b) disagreed with the ruling body.

One in which oppression was a way of life.

One in which even to this day the inhabitants bomb each other daily without remorse and take lives as if they were taking grapes off the vine.

One in which the religious factions vie for control by intimidation and threat.

None of this have you openly condemned....but you are more than happy to condemn British soldiers giving a beating to rioters, and why, because in your opinion they shouldn't be there. Thank heavens you then at least have freedom of speech eh?.


The Irony cannot be lost in translation!!
 
@if ®afiq said:
Eh??? I analyse as best as I can. If that is not up to your lofty standards then I can't help that.

As for the second part of that "question", when you say ideology - do you mean Islam?
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Im not having a go at you - in case you have noticed I have been making a concerted effort not to do so since I posted the rather charming owl...

My question is, why would you accept everything about Islam without qusetioning? Again, I am not criticising you or Islam - I am just asking how you can accept an entire collection of facts as a whole...
 
1) The video is old, the situation is different in Iraq now but at that time there was no law, there was no due process to punish these rioters. In the circumstance a beating, while not acceptable in our society, is the best course of action.

2) I don't believe for one minute that the voice is real, it's been added and has been done to be as extreme as possible - come on, who really talks like that?

If I want to give a dog a lesson I give it a good slap, tbh raising my voice is enough - I don't try to explain why it's done wrong - that would be silly. I would never lose my temper and lash out at a dog, but I am quite happy to use controlled aggression to get my point across.

There's nothing in the video which makes me things this was uncontrolled violence - just dishing out recognised punishment. The only uncontrolled part is the voice over, which I don't buy into anyway.
 
hello teli - i'd never questioned whether the voice was real before...

I'd agree that it is extreme, perhaps you are right that it is fake - im sure it would be easy to do such a thing
 
cleanbluesky said:
Is there a textbook retribution in a lawless warzone?
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No, but I'm pretty sure the British army are not without textbooks on various subjects. I would imagine that the subduing and restraint of prisoners (for want of a better word) would be in there somewhere.
 
Telescopi said:
1If I want to give a dog a lesson I give it a good slap, tbh raising my voice is enough - I don't try to explain why it's done wrong - that would be silly. I would never lose my temper and lash out at a dog, but I am quite happy to use controlled aggression to get my point across.
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I think you must have been watching a different video - they weren't dogs, they were people.
 
cleanbluesky said:
Im not having a go at you - in case you have noticed I have been making a concerted effort not to do so since I posted the rather charming owl...
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soz...wasn't too sure what you meant plus the other posts I've had to reply to have made me all defensive. :)

CBS said:
My question is, why would you accept everything about Islam without qusetioning? Again, I am not criticising you or Islam - I am just asking how you can accept an entire collection of facts as a whole...
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Ofcourse not. Islam recommends reasoning over blind faith. The Prophet said to seek knowledge, and the only way to do this is to ask questions.
 
@if ®afiq said:
Ofcourse not. Islam recommends reasoning over blind faith. The Prophet said to seek knowledge, and the only way to do this is to ask questions.
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So are you saying that you have sat down and thought about it, and in your reasoned considered opinion it is desirable and justified to stone gay people to death for being gay..
 
dirtydog said:
So are you saying that you have sat down and thought about it, and in your reasoned considered opinion it is desirable and justified to stone gay people to death for being gay..
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I believe what he originally said is that if that is the punishment that has been prescribed then he would support it... rather than the idea that he considers it desirable...
 
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