New Canon full frame?

Jed Shields · 17 Sep 2012 at 11:42

I've been holding off buying a 7D in case the rumoured 7D mkii or 70D were announced. I assume it's safe to go shopping for a 7D now?

Nexus · 17 Sep 2012 at 14:18

I would think so.

It did strike me as odd that they would release such a significant firmware update for the 7D which added new features if it was going to be replaced.

Hxc · 17 Sep 2012 at 14:30

Raymond Lin said:
Troll is troll.

They might not have the best stock.
Their staff might not know anything about cameras.
Their prices might be too much.

It does not make them crooks.

Stock is distributed dependant on the store's projected customer base. For one more week (I've quit!) I am working in the Bristol central store which is a 'centre of excellence' and we have pretty epic stock. Got a D600 in for demo yesterday for staff to have on the shop floor and show customers, which was pretty impressive, and we've a huge range of lenses from your basic 50mm and 35mm to a variety of tilt shift stuff and £4400 200mm primes.

Also have stock of D800s and D800Es, D4s, 1Ds, the like.

The staff at our store are pretty good with camera knowledge, but others where I have worked are bloody awful. It's a minimum wage paying job with high sales targets and no commission; they're a pretty crap company to work for, in all honesty.

jorzeh · 17 Sep 2012 at 14:51

The D600 and D6 Both seem to not really fill a Gap in the market at their Current price points, Both the 5Dmrk2 and D700 are both better guys as far as i can tell.

Rojin · 17 Sep 2012 at 15:39

jorzeh said:
The D600 and D6 Both seem to not really fill a Gap in the market at their Current price points, Both the 5Dmrk2 and D700 are both better guys as far as i can tell.

The D700 is already discontinued and the 5D2 is shortly to follow. The 6D price is a bit of a surprise at £1799, could we see it around £1599 by Christmas? Import prices will be interesting as well. Although to be honest I'm more interested to see how this impacts the 5D3 price, if at all...

D.P. · 17 Sep 2012 at 15:47

mrk said:
Seems fine for those wanting excellent low light and full frame though.

It maybe fine but I is very disappointing. Tbh, the 5dmk3 is looking like what the 6d shoud have been and we are still waiting on a true 5dmk3, still rmours of. High res canon 3d so maybe tat will do it.

jonneymendoza · 17 Sep 2012 at 16:20

D.P. said:
It maybe fine but I is very disappointing. Tbh, the 5dmk3 is looking like what the 6d shoud have been and we are still waiting on a true 5dmk3, still rmours of. High res canon 3d so maybe tat will do it.

True 5d3?what are u smoking? The 5d3thats out now is. Sensational camera and a true successor to the 5d2

The 6d is a joke though and glad I got the 5d3

Alex53 · 17 Sep 2012 at 16:33

jonneymendoza said:
True 5d3?what are u smoking? The 5d3thats out now is. Sensational camera and a true successor to the 5d2

The 6d is a joke though and glad I got the 5d3

Hence the price difference. It's all subject to what one can afford.

I have a 5D. The original one. Still perfectly good. Sometimes people care too much about their gear.

Raymond Lin · 17 Sep 2012 at 16:40

Given the choice, D600 is a better camera.

Dual cards
Faster FPS
More crossed points

Those are more important than wifi and GPS.

D.P. · 17 Sep 2012 at 16:45

jonneymendoza said:
True 5d3?what are u smoking? The 5d3thats out now is. Sensational camera and a true successor to the 5d2

The 6d is a joke though and glad I got the 5d3

The 5dmk3 added the sorely missing pro AF to the mk2 and makes a great camera, no doubt about it.

The 5dmk2 was popular for landscape, architecture and studio work since it had a high sensor, anyone who purchased a 5dmk2 for these purposes still do not have their camera upgrade choice forcing some to jump onto a nikon d800 setup.

The other way to look it is the Nikon d600 is 90% of the canon 5dmk3 for only 60% of the price. These 2 camera are much closer together than the price would let you think and are competing for the same type of user. The canon 6d is a much lower level FF camera, some thing which Nikon doesn't offer yet, but costs the same as the Nikon d600.

The lineup should be something like:
Canon 3d 42mp high res + pro AF. ........ Vs ........ Nikon D800(e)
Canon 5dmk3 22mp wedding dream ....... Vs ...... Nikon D600
Canon 6d budget entry level FF....... Vs ...... Unknown Nikon body

The canon line up may punch slightly above the Nikon equivalent in this list, e.g. The 5dmk3 is a little more camera than the 600D but with current prices the canon bodies just aren't competing with camera of the same level.

the high res canon 3d rumors are stil coming.
I have heard absolutely no rumors of a True entry level Nikon Ff camera and I doubt one will exist this generation.

cokebottles · 17 Sep 2012 at 16:47

Ray, I've just been looking into the D600 v 6D on an AF basis and Im no longer as sure that there is as much in it.

The D600's 39 points are the exact same 39 points as the D7000 APS-C camera size, with the cluster of 9 cross types being all in a central square. Overall the 39 points cover a very small central section of the frame, and the cross types are not spread out at all. I wonder how much use the extra points will really be then.

Im reserving judgement for now till someone gets their hands on both and gives a practical opinion. Keen to know if the -3 EV sensitivity thing is noticeable or not.

Raymond Lin · 17 Sep 2012 at 16:54

+/- 3 ev is really useful.

At times in the mk2 i find +/- 2 is not enough, I have had to put into manual and make it the exposure I want. With the mk3 that extra stop gives much more control on the fly.

I'll show you an example when i get home.

Raymond Lin · 17 Sep 2012 at 16:56

D.P. said:
The 5dmk3 added the sorely missing pro AF to the mk2 and makes a great camera, no doubt about it.

The 5dmk2 was popular for landscape, architecture and studio work since it had a high sensor, anyone who purchased a 5dmk2 for these purposes still do not have their camera upgrade choice forcing some to jump onto a nikon d800 setup.

The other way to look it is the Nikon d600 is 90% of the canon 5dmk3 for only 60% of the price. These 2 camera are much closer together than the price would let you think and are competing for the same type of user. The canon 6d is a much lower level FF camera, some thing which Nikon doesn't offer yet, but costs the same as the Nikon d600.

The lineup should be something like:
Canon 3d 42mp high res + pro AF. ........ Vs ........ Nikon D800(e)
Canon 5dmk3 22mp wedding dream ....... Vs ...... Nikon D600
Canon 6d budget entry level FF....... Vs ...... Unknown Nikon body

The canon line up may punch slightly above the Nikon equivalent in this list, e.g. The 5dmk3 is a little more camera than the 600D but with current prices the canon bodies just aren't competing with camera of the same level.

the high res canon 3d rumors are stil coming.
I have heard absolutely no rumors of a True entry level Nikon Ff camera and I doubt one will exist this generation.

You are basing too much on pixel count.

There are lots of people in TP who doesn't like the D800's pixel count, in fact they see it as a negative.

Rojin · 17 Sep 2012 at 17:08

The 6D is going down well with alt lens users due to the focus screen options, unlike the D600. So they did something right

cokebottles · 17 Sep 2012 at 17:08

Raymond Lin said:
+/- 3 ev is really useful.

At times in the mk2 i find +/- 2 is not enough, I have had to put into manual and make it the exposure I want. With the mk3 that extra stop gives much more control on the fly.

I'll show you an example when i get home.

When I mentioned "-3 EV sensitivity" what I was referring to was the sensitivity of the AF points in low light. What I have read is that all the 6D's AF points are sensitive down to -3 EV lighting conditions, whereas cameras so far (including the 5D3) have only been sensitive down to -2 EV. Im keen to see how well this works in practise. Will this mean the 6D can focus better in a dimly lit room than a 5D3.... I really hope someone does a side by side test.

With the exposure comp which I gather is what you are referring to Ray, according Dpreivew the 6D actually has scope for +/- 5 EV exposure compensation!

Rojin · 17 Sep 2012 at 17:14

cokebottles said:
When I mentioned "-3 EV sensitivity" what I was referring to was the sensitivity of the AF points in low light. What I have read is that all the 6D's AF points are sensitive down to -3 EV lighting conditions, whereas cameras so far (including the 5D3) have only been sensitive down to -2 EV. Im keen to see how well this works in practise. Will this mean the 6D can focus better in a dimly lit room than a 5D3.... I really hope someone does a side by side test.

With the exposure comp which I gather is what you are referring to Ray, according Dpreivew the 6D actually has scope for +/- 5 EV exposure compensation!

No, it is only the centre point that is sensitive down to -3 EV.

cokebottles · 17 Sep 2012 at 17:22

Rojin said:
No, it is only the centre point that is sensitive down to -3 EV.

My bad. Centre point only.

D.P. · 17 Sep 2012 at 17:37

Raymond Lin said:
You are basing too much on pixel count.

There are lots of people in TP who doesn't like the D800's pixel count, in fact they see it as a negative.

i am more or less ignoring pixel count except for the people that want to have the pixels such as landscape, wildlife and architecture. I used feature set more than anything, viewfinder %, dual card slots, Auto focus, body build quality and weather sealing, built in flash, sensor quality such as DR & noise.

There are a lot of people on TP utterly clueless about pixel count. High pixel count is a disadvantage if it has other negative affects such as lowering noise performance. With the the D800 this isn't true, there are only benefits such as improved signal to noise ratio when down-sampling, improved DR, improved resolution, improved pixel density for long lenses, improved cropping ability, improved print sizes, etc., etc. Earlier generation hardware had much higher read out noise at lower ADU values giving a lower quantum efficient and creating disproportionately more noise - a genuine cost of increased pixel density. Newer generation sensors and improved micro-lens techniques have mitigated these disadvantages almost entirely.

If the pixel density was such a concern then why did people buy a 5DMKII/III and not a D700/D3 with half the pixel density? Do you you down-sample your 5DMK photos to 12MP? Didn't think so. The pixel density difference between a 5DMK3 and a D800 is far smaller (factor 1.6) than between the 5DMK2 and D700 (factor 2)- the ultimate resolution gain in the D800 comes with the e model sans AA filter winch will have ;linear resolution well over twice the 5DMK3's.

Raymond Lin · 17 Sep 2012 at 17:44

Funny thing though is that I have seen no one else placed the comparison between bodies like you do.

I've simply accept the fact that the D600 is technically better, I've also conceded the fact that the D800 is also better.

Those vs diagrams are for the rumour mill to justify bodies that don't exist. The 3D rumour has been going on long before the original 5D was released, then the 7D came out, now a 6D.

I don't think it will happen for another year, if at all.

Energize · 17 Sep 2012 at 17:49

What's with gimmicks like wi-fi and GPS, who are Canon's target market? People who pick cameras out of the Argos catalogue? Lol.