yeh i was agreeing with you, just the "why the long face" thing i found funny.. yes i wasn't disagreeing things bend time and space ^^ see my post ... i was just saying, we don't know enough about it, to apply it to a theoretical method of travel... its an empty argument, there is no evidence, and largely no scientific explanation with any tangeable forecasts that can be tested in any way, i'm not saying it will remain that way forever, just that at the moemnt it can't be applied to a rational method of transport...
New UFO files released in UK
- Thread starter Teki187
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probes,
you don't need mission control. The travel time for any communication is to long. Other than picking up any data it sends back.
Nuclear propulsion is awesome stuff and far surpasses anything we could acheive in the distant future. The English design could reach 12% speed of light.
With it's fuel mined in Jupiter atmosphere. big balloons retrieving what it needed.
If we could make antimatter, the same principle propulsions systems are estimated at 40-50% speed of light.
Man of Honour
There you go again. They have never seen craft in space. They have seen unidentified objects. Nothing that could even be remotely positively identified as a craft.
Soldato
I for one welcome our badly out of focus, aimlessly meandering about the Cosmos overlords.
Man of Honour
Voyager 1 has travelled at 38,030 mph and was launched in 1977, I'm sure E.T. has something with a little more punch
Travelleing at the speed of sound at one time would have been inconceivable and unachievable.
HEADRAT
Perhaps it is just too much to comprehend for my primitive matter.
I appreciate the technology jump in the last 50 years has been a steep curve but interstellar travel is so much of a different ball game.
Man of Honour
There is one explanation that is consistent with all these vague videos being alien spaceships - youths and/or drunks going joyriding and messing with the primitives (i.e. us) for a laugh.
I think when it comes to discussions about aliens actually having visited earth, recent discussions put forth by Stephen Hawking in the last few years make it actually less likely. Considering the fact that evolutionary process is basically the same in any corner of this universe, would indicate that all "life" operates under the same basic principles. Consume, reproduce, evolve. With evolution being a constant battle to survive, would indicate that practically all life is "hardwired" to do what it can to survive. Our resources will run out one day and we will have to get off this planet and expand or see human civilization wane. This will be the same for any other civilization. It is reasonably safe to assume that the need for new resources is the primary motivating factor for any species to leave it's planet.
Mr Hawking has put it all together by stating that if something did come and visit us, it would likely be looking for resources, and anything advanced enough to cross the void, could easily wipe us from the face of the earth without much effort. The fact that we are still here suggests strongly that nothing has visited us. As he put it, the history of our own planet is bloody and violent when an advanced culture came into contact with a less advanced one. It hardly ever ended well for the less advanced culture, and this is amongst creatures with an indentical genetic structure from the same species.
Something tells me that the happy-go-lucky hippy age scientists that released the Voyager probes with directions to our planet in the seventies, are having severe second thoughts these days. As a species we are not ready to face anything that can travel the void and that as soon as we can develop an FTL travel method that we go out and retrieve those damn probes!
Mr Hawking has put it all together by stating that if something did come and visit us, it would likely be looking for resources, and anything advanced enough to cross the void, could easily wipe us from the face of the earth without much effort. The fact that we are still here suggests strongly that nothing has visited us. As he put it, the history of our own planet is bloody and violent when an advanced culture came into contact with a less advanced one. It hardly ever ended well for the less advanced culture, and this is amongst creatures with an indentical genetic structure from the same species.
Something tells me that the happy-go-lucky hippy age scientists that released the Voyager probes with directions to our planet in the seventies, are having severe second thoughts these days. As a species we are not ready to face anything that can travel the void and that as soon as we can develop an FTL travel method that we go out and retrieve those damn probes!
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To be optimistic thou, and if we look at our own species for clues, it would appear that it will take the collective efforts of an entire planet working in relative harmony to be able to advance far enough to be able to leave the planet to colonize others. If we stay bogged down in superstition and conflict it seems more than likely that we will just destroy ourselves. With that in mind it is reasonable to assume that anything that can cross the stars has long since put their petty differences aside and represents a united planet. It would also be therefore safe to assume that violent, primal tendencies have long since been replaced by logic and reason, and that even if they they could wipe us out, that they wouldn't do so as ethical behavior would be too ingrained in their society to allow them to do it.
Say for example we finally develop FTL travel and detect a radio signal from a nearby star. What sort of people would go on that first mission? More than likely it would be comprised of equal parts, military, scientists, and diplomats. It would seem unlikely that any species advanced enough to work together to develop technology to cross the void would suddenly send unstable Conan the barbarian types type to another world. The same rational minds that made the spacehip would be the same ones to travel in it.
Say for example we finally develop FTL travel and detect a radio signal from a nearby star. What sort of people would go on that first mission? More than likely it would be comprised of equal parts, military, scientists, and diplomats. It would seem unlikely that any species advanced enough to work together to develop technology to cross the void would suddenly send unstable Conan the barbarian types type to another world. The same rational minds that made the spacehip would be the same ones to travel in it.
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Man of Honour
I think about that (what Hawking talked about) too from time to time but I always end up with the same conclusion, that with evolution of an intelligent species comes an evolved sense of respect for well being and life.
I mean back in the historical periods of our time the more advanced societies did invade and rule but today that's not the case and instead countries are working together to fight terror and various forms of tyranny throughout the weaker parts of the world and these joint efforts are growing each year too.
Hawking has a point though, like there are good advanced civilisations that won't even think about doing harm here on earth to a lesser civilisation there are also ones with bad intentions - likewise if there are beings out there then there will be good and bad.
We can only hope that the good ones come to stop the bad ones if one day they visit to smash their ban hammers :O
Indeed. Perhaps another way to think about it is that any species that is less than fully united is flawed, and is doomed to remain in civil conflict on their own planet, until they wane and/or are destroyed. Right now humanity is at a critical cross roads. For thousands of years we could only inflict limited damage on one another and the enviroment, but now we have multiple methods at hand to destroy everything. Every species will face this crossroads and it will be one of the defining moments in their history. They will develop to the point where technological levels can assure destruction on a global scale. They will either then be destroyed, or leave the planet and expand. While I'm sure there might be exceptions out there in the wide universe, I strongly suspect that those whose cultures have violent, aggressive tendencies, will end up destroyed, and only those that put aside differences can make it to other planets.
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The other thing is most people only think about distance as something to over come.
they totally forget about time. The Universe is billions of years old, We have only existed for ~250,000 years and building cities for ~10,000 years.
The chances of us and an alien species overlapping in the same time period and in close proximity within the universe. Is not very high.
they totally forget about time. The Universe is billions of years old, We have only existed for ~250,000 years and building cities for ~10,000 years.
The chances of us and an alien species overlapping in the same time period and in close proximity within the universe. Is not very high.
Not really, we still exploit the poor and desperate on a huge scale.
After all if we where all nice Africa wouldn't be exporting huge amounts of food while so many starve there.
and all those nations who are "working together to fight terror and various forms of tyranny throughout the weaker parts of the world" wouldn't be buying up huge swaths of land there to grow food to bring home because we no longer have enough land.
as mankind has "evolved" all that has happened is we've killed more and more of each other in increasingly horrific ways every year.
Everyone always thinks the grass will be greener on he other side, that any outsider has to be better than us but odds are they arn't.
It more likley we're the ones with an evolved sense of respect for life, even if it is only for those we can see in front of us, rather than abstract numbers in a deathtoll, and every other life form is far more barbarous.
Not really it was the need to murder women and children far away to demoralize out enemies that lead us to the missile, it was the need to wipe whole civilizations from the face of the earth in under an hour that necessitated space flight, it was the basic need to get one up on the Joneses that took us to the moon.
conflict drives us, look at the people that have historically known peace, that have never known war or genocide.
They still live in huts in a jungle living harmonious and short lives.
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It's interesting that you mention conflict as a means to drive forth technology. I would indeed agree that war has led to much advancement and in an ironic way is needed by a species to be able to advance. However, the point is when do you as a species realize that conflict must be put aside, for the greater good of all? When does the downside of conflict finally outweigh the benefit? Can a species even realize it when that point occurs? Can they even do anything about it if they do? The species that can overcome these challenges are the ones we will most likely finally meet at some point.
Basically the sword remains double-edged. That species might be so far advanced ethically that conflict is utterly foreign to it, and seen as archaic, or it might be so far beyond us that it merely sees us as an infestation on a useful world, and "removes" us.
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I shouldnt have said "craft" when referring to object spotted by NASA in space, however, some of them move like craft, especially the one that "runs" away from the lightning flash.
I think its perfectly feasible that we have been visited by Alien "robotic" missions, which would explain a lot of the "intelligent" behaviour people report when they see such objects in the sky.
If something can have covered light years of space, its more than possible it could interact with our planet and make it LOOK like it was being intelligently controlled in real time by people on board.
Ultimately when you think about it, there are only two ways really to travel space as we MIGHT be able to do with our current understanding of space.
We could develop anti gravity technology (which shouldnt really be too hard) or we can bend space time around our travelling craft.
Clearly this is all science FICTION at the moment, but its perfectly plausible when you consider how fast our knowledge of the universe grows.
Anti grav might seem all sci fi now, but I dont think it will be for long.
You only have to look at nuclear technology. A few years ago Fusion was considered the holy grail and almost impossible to replicate. Now we do fusion every day, its common. The only issue is making it commercial.
Hell, we can even make ANTI matter if we want to. OK, its the most expensive thing on Earth to make...... one gram of antimatter would cost $100 quadrillion, which is even more than HP's Inkjet refills!!
The point is really that FTL travel is PLAUSIBLE, even with our massively limited understanding of physics at the higher level. For instance, ask any physicist and they still cant tell you how gravity works. No one has a CLUE, yet its the most basic form of force in the universe and is fundamental to our universes and our very existence.
Once we crack anti grav, we can then at least start moving out and exploring our solar system properly, and get set up on Mars.
These things take time though, and the idea of an alien race being a MILLION years more advanced than us and able to travel between stars is not really very far fetched at all.
My PERSONAL opinion is that there is probably an abundance of life out there, and probably any civilisation that is vastly more advanced than us probably doesnt need or want anything to do with us, and would have the experience to leave us well alone.. to develop ourselves.
Some of the footage Ive seen really does send a chill down my spine, and leaves me awestruck. Im not some crackpot by any stretch of the imagination, and if its all US military with anti grav, or some other mental technology then fine, but it would be nice to actually KNOW what is going on in the skies, because SOMETHING is, and no one can deny that.
I think its perfectly feasible that we have been visited by Alien "robotic" missions, which would explain a lot of the "intelligent" behaviour people report when they see such objects in the sky.
If something can have covered light years of space, its more than possible it could interact with our planet and make it LOOK like it was being intelligently controlled in real time by people on board.
Ultimately when you think about it, there are only two ways really to travel space as we MIGHT be able to do with our current understanding of space.
We could develop anti gravity technology (which shouldnt really be too hard) or we can bend space time around our travelling craft.
Clearly this is all science FICTION at the moment, but its perfectly plausible when you consider how fast our knowledge of the universe grows.
Anti grav might seem all sci fi now, but I dont think it will be for long.
You only have to look at nuclear technology. A few years ago Fusion was considered the holy grail and almost impossible to replicate. Now we do fusion every day, its common. The only issue is making it commercial.
Hell, we can even make ANTI matter if we want to. OK, its the most expensive thing on Earth to make...... one gram of antimatter would cost $100 quadrillion, which is even more than HP's Inkjet refills!!
The point is really that FTL travel is PLAUSIBLE, even with our massively limited understanding of physics at the higher level. For instance, ask any physicist and they still cant tell you how gravity works. No one has a CLUE, yet its the most basic form of force in the universe and is fundamental to our universes and our very existence.
Once we crack anti grav, we can then at least start moving out and exploring our solar system properly, and get set up on Mars.
These things take time though, and the idea of an alien race being a MILLION years more advanced than us and able to travel between stars is not really very far fetched at all.
My PERSONAL opinion is that there is probably an abundance of life out there, and probably any civilisation that is vastly more advanced than us probably doesnt need or want anything to do with us, and would have the experience to leave us well alone.. to develop ourselves.
Some of the footage Ive seen really does send a chill down my spine, and leaves me awestruck. Im not some crackpot by any stretch of the imagination, and if its all US military with anti grav, or some other mental technology then fine, but it would be nice to actually KNOW what is going on in the skies, because SOMETHING is, and no one can deny that.
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Or that flash could be a manoeuvring thruster or other particles, hence why it moved direction and "runs"
If you are going to say these things are probes there must be millions of them, all out in space(due to nasa videos). yet none have been confirmed or even remotely identified as something unnatural.
Anti matter only gets us upto theoretical 50% speed of light.
And any worm holes or FTL travel is just a theory with no proof and once we have a unified model it might even disappear.
At current understanding for worm holes you need the energy of an exploding sun as well as technology we don't even understand.
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They never will, even when there a greater threat or no threat at all individuals will fight and squabble.
The point you start losing, which is why some of us developed weapons to such a level that we physically cannot go to war with each other any more, now the war is waged in other ways.
A species? no, a species is not a homogeneous group.
A country can see the point at which conflict would greatly out weight the benefits (look at the events around the Cuban missile crisis) but only because there is a small number of people in charge, when you take the country as a whole there where still large numbers on both sides willing to send each other to a fiery death even if it meant they would too.
Or you'll meet the ones that won, and then later encountered the ones that put conflict aside and duly got massacred for it.
Doesn't fit, you can't have a civilization so ethical then willing to commit genocide, that's just a cheap plot trick for a scifi movie that wanted to make a point but couldn't.
It's like saying the Jains who are so ethical they go so far as to not even kill plants for food (only taking what can be taken without killing the plant), and filter their water (and return the retentate to the source) to prevent killing whatever lives in it would put mouse traps down in their kitchens.
It just doesn't fit.
Man of Honour
The energy part isn't the issue though, it's harnessing it and controlling it indefinitely. Black hole centres are said to be incredibly small, they are after all a singularity with huge amounts of mass. Energy doesn't have to come from a huge body like a Sun but can come from a tiny dot the size of a pinhead. Heck recently astronomers discovered a sun being sucked in by a black hole.
There's still loads to learn about the universe
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Exactly.
There really is hardly anything in our Universe too! Most of the universe is space, most of the matter in the universe is made up mainly of space!!
Squash all the matter properly together, and you have one super super dense singularity, but quite what diameter you could shrink all the mass in the universe to I do not know.
Since a lot of space is gas, it could be compressed even further!
So if everyone on Earth is the size of a sugar cube when the empty space is removed from atoms, maybe the entire Universe could be squashed to the size of a solar system?!
Any theoretical physicists on here?
There really is hardly anything in our Universe too! Most of the universe is space, most of the matter in the universe is made up mainly of space!!
Squash all the matter properly together, and you have one super super dense singularity, but quite what diameter you could shrink all the mass in the universe to I do not know.
Since a lot of space is gas, it could be compressed even further!
So if everyone on Earth is the size of a sugar cube when the empty space is removed from atoms, maybe the entire Universe could be squashed to the size of a solar system?!
Any theoretical physicists on here?