NHS=Negligent Health Service

[Minstadave]

IDK how I feel about them it's kinda putting your health above the patients.

which I guess you could argue is the right thing to do because if the doctors/gps get ill no one will be seen anyway.

How dare someone not risk their life to do their job? It's not like it's standard in every job to try and keep people safe.

I'd like to see the Face2face statistics for private GPs vs ones that are doing NHS appointments.

I'd bet private is nearly all face 2 face still because when someone is paying 100 for 15minutes of someones time you can hardly relegate them to a phone.

I'd bet the vast bulk of private consultants are telemedicine through Babylon and similar.

it can't be that much better than phoning 111? all a GP can really do is say go to the hospital surely? or would they offer you an actual F2F consultation if they deem it necessary

I guess people should start buying oximeters, sphygmomanometer, HR meters etc for the home.

I don't love phone/video consultations but for follow up of chronic conditions it's as good as seeing them F2F often, keeps the kids in school, multiple people can dial in to the same consultation. If a GP needs to see someone F2F they often just book them in later that day just like we do in hospital.

How's your asthma kiddo? It's been fine doc or it's not great - We're done in seconds, no need to miss an afternoon of school/travel to hospital/get infected or infect others/pay for parking etc.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

I don't love phone/video consultations but for follow up of chronic conditions it's as good as seeing them F2F often, keeps the kids in school, multiple people can dial in to the same consultation. If a GP needs to see someone F2F they often just book them in later that day just like we do in hospital.

How's your asthma kiddo? It's been fine doc or it's not great - We're done in seconds, no need to miss an afternoon of school/travel to hospital/get infected or infect others/pay for parking etc.

I've had around 10 phone/video consultations since April 2020 and I much prefer them.
The funniest one was sending a dick pick

 

[arknor]

How dare someone not risk their life to do their job? It's not like it's standard in every job to try and keep people safe.

has it not been a risk of the job since the dawn of time? you see ill people, you have a risk of catching what they have.

I'd imagine if you do get ill your considered a priority and basically a VIP?

no one is telling a GP they can't have antibiotics etc surely? where as regular joe likely has to fight for everything he gets.

as a GP would you be happy to be offered a phone appointment? I bet such a thing would never happen

 

[Minstadave]

has it not been a risk of the job since the dawn of time? you see ill people, you have a risk of catching what they have.

But mitigating risk is part of all jobs. It's why NHS staff get an annual flu jab, Hep B vaccination to reduce the risk, or where PPE when dealing with an Ebola/SARS patient for instance.

It's why you have to be qualified and equipped to work from heights. You could make the same argument in that case "People have always fallen to their death, why bother having any safety measures?".

The idea that doctors should take on even more risk to their health, their family's health and the health of other patient's they see so no one is inconvenienced by not getting a F2F appointment is bonkers.

I'd imagine if you do get ill your considered a priority and basically a VIP?

It's well known that COVID goes easy on medical staff. We just roll out the red carpet for staff and give them all the special medications the plebs don't get.

no one is telling a GP they can't have antibiotics etc surely? where as regular joe likely has to fight for everything he gets.

as a GP would you be happy to be offered a phone appointment? I bet such a thing would never happen

I think you have a very warped sense of what goes on in the NHS. I'm not a GP but my wife is. If either of us call our GP practice we get the same treatment as everyone else. Including phone/video apts.[/QUOTE]

 

[arknor]

But mitigating risk is part of all jobs

yea and there has to be a point where mitigation of the risks effects your ability to do a job.

Personally I don't blame GPs never had a bad one yet and my experiences the few times I have needed one have been overwhelmingly positive.

I suspect GPs are being set up to fail so the NHS can be privatised because of "back logs" and all the people who get cancer diagnosis or whatever when it's too late.

 

[Werewolf]

has it not been a risk of the job since the dawn of time? you see ill people, you have a risk of catching what they have.

Yes catching a disease is a risk, but they, like anyone with any working grey matter tend to try and reduce the risks they face, especially when the risk is new and there is little in the way of known treatments for it.
So when dealing with bloodwork they wear gloves, despite the fact it's significantly harder to catch most blood born pathogens than covid, when doing injections they they'll handle the needles with extreme care and immediately put them into a specially designed bin next to them so they reduce the risk of poking themselves on it.

You make it sound like Doctors have only just started to take steps to reduce their risks.

 

[Energize]

I prefer telephone appointments, but what I don't understand is why the appointment system has actually gotten worse with the move to virtual appointments, in theory it should free up time for more patients to be seen, but what I have observed at GP practices is that where once I previously could book face to face appointments online upto 4 weeks in advance, the system has actually gone backwards and we now have to wait 30 minutes on hold on the telephone to book an appointment, and half the time I get told there's none available despite the GP specifically asking for an appointment to be made for me, apparantly they now only "release" appointments for 2 weeks in advance. Absolute shambles.

 

[Chris Wilson]

But mitigating risk is part of all jobs. It's why NHS staff get an annual flu jab, Hep B vaccination to reduce the risk, or where PPE when dealing with an Ebola/SARS patient for instance.

It's why you have to be qualified and equipped to work from heights. You could make the same argument in that case "People have always fallen to their death, why bother having any safety measures?".

The idea that doctors should take on even more risk to their health, their family's health and the health of other patient's they see so no one is inconvenienced by not getting a F2F appointment is bonkers.



It's well known that COVID goes easy on medical staff. We just roll out the red carpet for staff and give them all the special medications the plebs don't get.



I think you have a very warped sense of what goes on in the NHS. I'm not a GP but my wife is. If either of us call our GP practice we get the same treatment as everyone else. Including phone/video apts.

What??? If your wife is a GP you aren't telling me if you have a medical issue you hold fire talking about it, wait for a weekday, ring her or some other practice, wait in the phone queues hoping for a referral and await someone remotely diagnosing you? You don't ask her over dinner to take a quick look at whatever is bothering you?

Your GP wife can't diagnose to a proficient extent what might be wrong with her own body, and rings a GP practice for an opinion? Come on...Is it any wonder my first port of call with my ailments is my vet

 

[Minstadave]

What??? If your wife is a GP you aren't telling me if you have a medical issue you hold fire talking about it, wait for a weekday, ring her or some other practice, wait in the phone queues hoping for a referral and await someone remotely diagnosing you? You don't ask her over dinner to take a quick look at whatever is bothering you?

If I have a medical problem I go to my GP like everyone else. We've never been registered at a practice she works at, that would be uncomfortable. I'd talk to her about my issues as she's my wife but she wouldn't treat them. Just like I don't treat my own kids.

Your GP wife can't diagnose to a proficient extent what might be wrong with her own body, and rings a GP practice for an opinion? Come on...Is it any wonder my first port of call with my ailments is my vet

No one acts as their own doctor, my wife goes and sees her GP like everyone else does, booked the normal way with the usual wait (our practice isn't bad). The level of the conversation is probably different to Joe public but that's the only difference. Self prescribing is a dubious practice and rare to come across these days, the GMC is pretty hot on picking this up.

I'm not sure why that's a surprise to you?

 

[heeeed]

It’s very frowned on to manage the health of family members. It’s also much harder to be objective and a much higher risk of under and over diagnosing. Other than a private prescription which again for a family member is significantly frowned upon you don’t have a mechanism to prescribe if they need it. If my wife or kids is anything beyond a very clear ‘you’re fine’ normal viral bug I prefer them to see a GP and she goes the same systems as anyone else. On the occasions I needed a GP I also went through the same systems and the same waits. Yes I went into consultation with knowledge and an idea on what was going on and what should be done, but I went for an opinion.

the system right now is on a knife edge. Demand is waaaay more than normal which is the largest reason for longer waits right now. They’re about to change the system for sick notes from tomorrow that you can self certify for a month to try reduce burden of workload short term. If you want to follow the daily wail narrative that we’re either workshy and on the golf course, or scared to see people, then by all means do, but it’s a nonsense

I’m a fit and healthy bloke in my mid 40’s, slightly rounder than ideal but it isn’t my own health I’m worried about with covid. If I develop symptoms then I’m off seeing anything face to face pending a PCR. All those appointments are cancelled and have to try and be rearranged. If I do get covid then I may well be shedding virus without realising it whilst I go and see your granny in the nursing home, or see your mum with her brittle asthma or see the immune compromised neighbour who has managed to avoid most contact with remote deliveries of food etc. but has to be seen by me for some reason.

im currently seeing ~80% face to face, and increasingly people lie to our reception to be seen face to face, they don’t follow the guidance sometimes through ignorance about lateral flow vs PCR, but often wilfully ignoring guidance. I’ve had patients come in with supposed back pain, proudly point at their sunflower lanyard whilst refusing to wear a mask (yet I have their medical record and they have no reason not to wear one) . They are kept in a separate room to keep waiting room safer and ruck up and cough in my face and it’s the cough they wanted to be seen for, but “if I told the receptionist that then I wouldn’t have got in”

right now the situation is impossible. We would love to go back to normality just like the next man, in fact an awful lot more than the next man, but right now in health that is NOT the right thing to do. I’m afraid you just have to bear with us at the moment

 

[CaptainRAVE]

The NHS is in a mess and the sooner it privatises the better.

 

[Minstadave]

Those sunflower lanyards make my heart sink.

 

[Chris Wilson]

heeeed: Right now, whether people realize it or not, I am playing a perhaps unsubtle game of devil's advocate in order to get a discussion on this matter going, one that many seem reluctant to address, whether because they see the NHS as (ridiculously, really) sacrosanct or just because they see challenging doctors ethics as somewhat taboo. I thank you for your balanced response.

Some people naively see the medical profession as a none pecuniary advantaged profession, it's not, and I have no qualms whatsoever with that. But growing pecuniary advantage with ever expanding risk aversion are debatable bedfellows.

GP's have minimized their perceived hours and commitment in the eyes of the general public for years., No or very very few house calls, little weekend availability, automated answerphone services, in practice drug dispensaries with justifiable questions of profiteering, things are very different from how things were. A robust and dispassionate questioning is valid and may help better understanding?

 

[Chris Wilson]

Look at you trying to rub off some stolen valour from your grandparents, as if you would do anything if you were called up.

It is incredibly stupid of you to compare WW2 with a pandemic. A GP protecting their health means they can treat more people, “sacrificing” themselves so Karen’s like you can complain to them in person is not a noble sacrifice, it’s utterly pointless. The NHS in general were applauded weekly by the general public and rightly so.

What do you do for a living?

I am a mechanic, using their real name and location. Are any of those three answers forthcoming from your good self? The naivety of the general public in their free giving of applause can easily be gleaned from watching most any television program where the public's response is audible. Clapping is beyond cheap.

 

[Energize]

No one acts as their own doctor, my wife goes and sees her GP like everyone else does, booked the normal way with the usual wait (our practice isn't bad). The level of the conversation is probably different to Joe public but that's the only difference. Self prescribing is a dubious practice and rare to come across these days, the GMC is pretty hot on picking this up.

Seems a bit paternalistic to me, and a waste of NHS resources. I could understand it for controlled drugs as that could make a doctor unfit to practice, though from what I hear from pharmacists they do sometimes come across doctors self prescribing themselves diazepam!

 

[arknor]

Those sunflower lanyards make my heart sink.

they are dumb as hell, anyone can just buy one no need to prove anything and now they are being abused so the people they are designed to help are instead abused.

theyre supposed to be a sign you need extra support, might feel anxious in the situation, end up overwhelmed etc..... not that you don't need a mask

I have a hidden disability but would never get a stupid lanyard, good idea but in practice just constantly abused by normal people

 

[theone8181]

I've had around 10 phone/video consultations since April 2020 and I much prefer them.
The funniest one was sending a dick pick

See now in thinking they could have a laugh and ask it to be zoomed in so they could see it. I guess it's not just if they get ill will covid and are off, but if they had it with no symptoms. I.e. didn't know they had it, it's possible for it to spread to those vulnerable people (assuming GPS and the like take masks off even no one else is in the room. Fwiw I had a f2f a couple of weeks ago about a mole on my face, the biggest issue is that the car park is 90% staff so I had to park half a mile away, prove first world proplems.

 

[Minstadave]

Seems a bit paternalistic to me, and a waste of NHS resources. I could understand it for controlled drugs as that could make a doctor unfit to practice, though from what I hear from pharmacists they do sometimes come across doctors self prescribing themselves diazepam!

Not paternalistic, just sensible. You're not always objective when you come to your own health and that of your family.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Those sunflower lanyards make my heart sink.

I bought one off eBay for £2 and for a laugh I wear the lanyard while still wearing my mask.
I was in the Chip Shop when a young bloke walked in (about 30), he was asked to wear one but then started ranting he was exempt.
I said get one of these and you don't have to wear a mask and he said "but you're wearing one" and I replied "Yes cause I'm not a dick" and he walked out.
I do have an official exemption from NHS Occupational Health but I still wear one.

 

[Energize]

Not paternalistic, just sensible. You're not always objective when you come to your own health and that of your family.

Might not be sensible but it's not unethical, your health is your own business, shouldn't have an agency like the GMC cracking down on your own healthcare decisions.