NHS=Negligent Health Service

[jpaul]

Seemed to be a paradox yesterday with both some of the economic growth (helping avoid an official recession tag) being attributed to GP productivity (appointments)
and on the other hand surveys reporting people even less satsified by GP service -
there needs to be some measure of chronic dicease survivability improvement/degradation going into the GDP figure to arbitrate which is true.

Consevative part voters will be watching the c4 leaders debate (they have tv licenses and aren't all on private health) ) so hopefully someone asks Rishi/Liz what they could do.

 

[VincentHanna]

The NHS is great, but there's been a perfect storm brewing for years, that is finally leading to breaking point.

We have an ageing population

Along with chronic underfunding of social care for the elderly. So when old people go in to hospital, and they do get better, they can't be discharged.

Which means they take up a bed needed by someone who has a genuine health emergency and calls an ambulance.

Which doesn't arrive for literally 12 hours sometimes, because they are queuing outside hospitals, with no beds.

Ambulance services on fringe of collapse - paramedic

BBC Newsnight spends 12 hours at six hospitals with the longest delays handing over patients to A&E.

www.bbc.co.uk

Highest alert level for ambulance services in England

NHS trusts are under extreme pressure, struggling to cope with high levels of demand.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[CaptainRAVE]

It’s a bleak picture as we start to move into an age that could increasingly need it. We take in endless immigrants, are now building loads of new housing on green belt, but none of the infrastructure needed - nor do we have the staffing available. I’ve seen countless times housing developers make local promises only to finish their build and to find an excuse to move on. As usual we’ll just carry on and ignore the problem, we’re British after all, stiff upper lip until your final breath (probably abandoned on a bed in a corridor without a nurse or doctor in sight)

It’s so variable too. I’ve had excellent service when I needed physio and a had a skin cancer scare. Yet when my dad had a stroke they parked him in the ambulance garage for 4 hours.

 

[Raumarik]

Pensions, tax and contractual changes have also made it unfeasible or undesirable for certain staff near retirement to stay on if they've worked in the NHS for a couple of decades. This covers GPs, hospitals etc.
We've also over the past 20 years seen a drop in admin/clerical staff and those hated middle managers - which means clinicians are now spending increased time on management and admin work rather than the clinical duties they were trained for. There's also now a habit of promoting clinical staff into management posts they weren't trained for. So we have untrained managers (who may or may not stay if they dislike the job) and lose in many cases excellent clinicians.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Does anybody here watch Critical Condition, latest series on now?
It's all based at our Royal Stoke ED and I get to see every one of those Consultant Heroes in the off red uniforms in our department.
I see them because there's always some patient/relative who puts a claim in against them or say they killed their relative.

 

[eviled]

The number of patients waiting for non-urgent NHS hospital treatment in Wales has been growing since the pandemic began.
Around 20% of the Welsh population is now thought to be waiting for a non-urgent treatment.

moreover saw that east angia parents with a 1:1.5K doctor ratio are in middle ground

(is that an illegal hot-link ?)

Well thats a rubbish - 5 minutes of googling number 9 on the right (picked at random) - Hawkley book medical practice shows 2 full time equivalent GPs for 3063 patients = 1532 patients per GP

I imagine the rest are wrong too

 

[Werewolf]

It’s a bleak picture as we start to move into an age that could increasingly need it. We take in endless immigrants, are now building loads of new housing on green belt, but none of the infrastructure needed - nor do we have the staffing available. I’ve seen countless times housing developers make local promises only to finish their build and to find an excuse to move on. As usual we’ll just carry on and ignore the problem, we’re British after all, stiff upper lip until your final breath (probably abandoned on a bed in a corridor without a nurse or doctor in sight)

It’s so variable too. I’ve had excellent service when I needed physio and a had a skin cancer scare. Yet when my dad had a stroke they parked him in the ambulance garage for 4 hours.

Yup

In our area as part of the development of a major housing estate (basically increased the population of the town by probably double digit percentages) they were meant to build and help fund a new clinic to deal with minor injuries and the like, as well as various other things (including from memory as they were going to use land in use by a heritage railway type thing, a new building for them), they built the estate against the objections of basically every local infrastructure organisation* and with a layout the police described as "horrendous", then didn't do any of the things that their planning permission was based on from what I can make out.

I've had great service from the nhs in emergencies and urgent cases, but at the gp level there aren't anything like enough so the practices can't cope with their workload - but having said that when my mum was ill the doctor who'd been taking care of her was actively going well above and beyond what was required and did things like come out in her lunch hour when we couldn't get my mum into the surgery one day (she'd been seeing her every few weeks for two years and knew we would get her there even if we looked like zombies).

My most recent experience, last week was that the GP's surgery were good once I made it clear to the receptionist why I needed to speak to a doctor (she got one whilst I was on hold), then the hosptial were very efficient and good but it was quite a long wait to get a bed, and we used our own car as we knew it would be graded as at most the third level of priority by the ambulance service so potentially hours before we'd see anyone. As it happened we got to the hosptial and were seen in about an hour by triage, and about 4 hours in A&E in a bed waiting for a ward bed (meanwhile I overheard a nurse saying they'd got ambulances stacking up).


*IIRC the Water, electrical and gas supply networks warned against the size of it (and basically "it's eating into our reserve capacity" and "it's likely to cause black outs"), the waste water company warned it could stress their system, the envirmental agency warned they were building on a potential flood plain and would be likely to start to get flooding/cause flooding elsewhere, the NHS warned about lack of services, the ambulance trust and fire services warned about the issues it could cause their emergency response times. But they were overruled.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

The NHS is great, but there's been a perfect storm brewing for years, that is finally leading to breaking point.

We have an ageing population

Along with chronic underfunding of social care for the elderly. So when old people go in to hospital, and they do get better, they can't be discharged.

Which means they take up a bed needed by someone who has a genuine health emergency and calls an ambulance.

Which doesn't arrive for literally 12 hours sometimes, because they are queuing outside hospitals, with no beds.

Ambulance services on fringe of collapse - paramedic

BBC Newsnight spends 12 hours at six hospitals with the longest delays handing over patients to A&E.

www.bbc.co.uk

Highest alert level for ambulance services in England

NHS trusts are under extreme pressure, struggling to cope with high levels of demand.

www.bbc.co.uk

Can't be discharged and so beds can't be allocated so people have to wait in the back of ambulances for hours on end til something becomes available. Also covid is rife in wards and they can't be discharged if they have that too and compound that with staff shortages due to covid and its reaching breaking point. So whats this govts plan? Well there isn't one other than toss some money at ithe NHS in the hope all teh problems go away. Do somethihg about the levels of covid? No because they're idealogically committed to personal freedom rather than collective responsibility so even simple restrictions are off teh table. So what do telegraph readers say, get private healthcare as the NHS isn't fit for purpose. Oh great.

Yup

In our area as part of the development of a major housing estate (basically increased the population of the town by probably double digit percentages) they were meant to build and help fund a new clinic to deal with minor injuries and the like, as well as various other things (including from memory as they were going to use land in use by a heritage railway type thing, a new building for them), they built the estate against the objections of basically every local infrastructure organisation* and with a layout the police described as "horrendous", then didn't do any of the things that their planning permission was based on from what I can make out.

I've had great service from the nhs in emergencies and urgent cases, but at the gp level there aren't anything like enough so the practices can't cope with their workload - but having said that when my mum was ill the doctor who'd been taking care of her was actively going well above and beyond what was required and did things like come out in her lunch hour when we couldn't get my mum into the surgery one day (she'd been seeing her every few weeks for two years and knew we would get her there even if we looked like zombies).

My most recent experience, last week was that the GP's surgery were good once I made it clear to the receptionist why I needed to speak to a doctor (she got one whilst I was on hold), then the hosptial were very efficient and good but it was quite a long wait to get a bed, and we used our own car as we knew it would be graded as at most the third level of priority by the ambulance service so potentially hours before we'd see anyone. As it happened we got to the hosptial and were seen in about an hour by triage, and about 4 hours in A&E in a bed waiting for a ward bed (meanwhile I overheard a nurse saying they'd got ambulances stacking up).


*IIRC the Water, electrical and gas supply networks warned against the size of it (and basically "it's eating into our reserve capacity" and "it's likely to cause black outs"), the waste water company warned it could stress their system, the envirmental agency warned they were building on a potential flood plain and would be likely to start to get flooding/cause flooding elsewhere, the NHS warned about lack of services, the ambulance trust and fire services warned about the issues it could cause their emergency response times. But they were overruled.

Around north devon its a building boom estates and retails are mushrooming everywhere is there any new infrastructure to service it? Nope. Its boomtown because property prices are going through the roof because everyone wants to WFH and move to a new build property by the seaside. There are plans for an entire new town in sussex but its on hold because there simply isn't enough water to go around partly due to lack of infrastructure and partly due to a drying climate reservoirs are maybe a third full due not only due to recent demand but also low rainfall in spring and last year. So whats the plan to deal with it? There isn't one.

 

[Dis86]

Pensions, tax and contractual changes have also made it unfeasible or undesirable for certain staff near retirement to stay on if they've worked in the NHS for a couple of decades. This covers GPs, hospitals etc.
We've also over the past 20 years seen a drop in admin/clerical staff and those hated middle managers - which means clinicians are now spending increased time on management and admin work rather than the clinical duties they were trained for. There's also now a habit of promoting clinical staff into management posts they weren't trained for. So we have untrained managers (who may or may not stay if they dislike the job) and lose in many cases excellent clinicians.

Had literally that same conversation with a doctor friend of mine. Just because you're a very good medic does not make you a good manager. Keep the two separate but with discourse between them!

 

[cheesefest]

Managed to get a GP appointment the other day at long last, turned up at 8am, I was the only person in the waiting room.

Rewind 3 years ago and it would have been absolutely packed with people. Quite shocking to see really, I wonder why there are obscene waiting times now!

My GP practice offers a daily morning session. Have to ring at 8am to get into the queue. No idea where you are in the queue until 2 mins into the queue. What happens to those who are always working or travelling to work at 8am??

Before the pandemic, we queued outside. I usually got there at 7:30am to see one of my favourite (and everyone else’s) two docs. Doors opened at 8am and checked in. If you turned up at 8am, some days there were 25 others in front!

Killed the time standing with iPod and Kindle paperwhite.

 

[cheesefest]

Earlier this month, the mother of my mum’s friend was taken to hospital. About six days later, she was transferred to a smaller hospital in the county. The thing is mum’s friend wasn’t told by the nursing staff where she’s going. It was to a general ward - so any of the hospitals.

It’s not like the hospitals are close to each other. So it was a case of ringing them all asking have you admitted a patient with the name …. Then took several hours to get records together.

These smaller hospitals are 13-15 miles away from the city hospital.

The transfer process should be easier and less stressful. People with loved ones in hospital don’t want to be in limbo about their whereabouts and health!

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Earlier this month, the mother of my mum’s friend was taken to hospital. About six days later, she was transferred to a smaller hospital in the county. The thing is mum’s friend wasn’t told by the nursing staff where she’s going. It was to a general ward - so any of the hospitals.

It’s not like the hospitals are close to each other. So it was a case of ringing them all asking have you admitted a patient with the name …. Then took several hours to get records together.

These smaller hospitals are 13-15 miles away from the city hospital.

The transfer process should be easier and less stressful. People with loved ones in hospital don’t want to be in limbo about their whereabouts and health!

This is a problem for people like me.
I only know a patients journey at three Hospitals close to me - Royal Stoke, County & Haywood so anything out of that I have no way of knowing.
This means Solicitors often come back saying we haven't sent certain records for an inpatient stay on such a date, I go back and say the patient wasn't with us on that date and so the tennis continues until the patient remembers they were somewhere else.

A problem for the Clinicians is that eg I could be in London and have a serious problem, go to A&E, they may know my name but there is nothing they can use to show my comorbidities which means they will have to guess their way through my treatment if I can't talk.

 

[McBain]

Where are the improvements for our extra 1.5% NI?

 

[cheesefest]

Where are the improvements for our extra 1.5% NI?

Probably got absorbed with the 24/7 heating of the hospitals.

 

[cheesefest]

Something needs to be done to help patients to ring to contact hospitals etc to cancel appts. Some departments are impossible to contact. Or have an answer phone which no one listens to or rings back.

People then don’t go to their appt as unable to speak to someone.

Then have a notice saying X appts were missed between A date and B date. How many people wanted to contact the department but unable to due to the above poor running of departments?

 

[Minstadave]

Something needs to be done to help patients to ring to contact hospitals etc to cancel appts. Some departments are impossible to contact. Or have an answer phone which no one listens to or rings back.

People then don’t go to their appt as unable to speak to someone.

Then have a notice saying X appts were missed between A date and B date. How many people wanted to contact the department but unable to due to the above poor running of departments?

Many trusts use DrDoctor to allow patients to see and manage appointments but it's rarely used.

 

[Dis86]

Can anyone explain to me why a woman cannot get the HPV vaccine on the NHS which is proven to result in a MASSIVE reduction in cervical cancer, yet a gay man can?

 

[Freakbro]

From reading this https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/hpv-human-papillomavirus-vaccine/ I would assume it's because girls have had the vaccine available since 2012 (and are eligible for it up to age 25 since the vaccine works more effectively if you have it before being exposed to HPV) and boys only got included in 2018. So unvaccinated heterosexual males have had a lot of protection from 'herd immunity' (ie: from the women who have had the jab) but unvaccinated homosexual males aren't getting that same level of herd immunity yet.

 

[Dis86]

From reading this https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/hpv-human-papillomavirus-vaccine/ I would assume it's because girls have had the vaccine available since 2012 (and are eligible for it up to age 25 since the vaccine works more effectively if you have it before being exposed to HPV) and boys only got included in 2018. So unvaccinated heterosexual males have had a lot of protection from 'herd immunity' (ie: from the women who have had the jab) but unvaccinated homosexual males aren't getting that same level of herd immunity yet.

That hasn't historically been the case. My sister for example was 16 in 2012 and was not eligible. What about women in their late 20s and 30s and beyond? Screw them?

 

[Freakbro]

That hasn't historically been the case. My sister for example was 16 in 2012 and was not eligible.

Read the article, it explains why, because when it was first introduced in 2012 it looks like it was only available for 12-13 y/o's at the time, the cut off date for the up to 25 y/o eligibility was therefore based on their birthdates.

If you’re eligible and miss the HPV vaccine offered in Year 8 at school, it’s available for free on the NHS up until your 25th birthday for:

• girls born after 1 September 1991
• boys born after 1 September 2006

So unfortunately your sister missed the cut as did every other female over 13 at the time. Looks like the same will have happened to boys when they were introduced into the scheme in 2018.

What about women in their late 20s and 30s and beyond? Screw them?

Once lines are drawn people will always fall the wrong side of it that's life and as stated, they will most probably been exposed to HPV by then anyway so the vaccine is less effective.