NHS=Negligent Health Service

I agree.

The mindset in the UK is all wrong. The people have to realise that they aren't paying enough tax, there have to be limits on what they can have for the amount that's paid, and the NHS has to start treating the patients like they are the customers.

It's typical, though, of politicians. They are incapable of organising anything.
I doubt more tax is the solution - any additional funds raised that way, would be squandered, and probably wouldn't make it to the NHS coffers anyway.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me to find out that the NHS' structure is an upside down pyramid - with far too much directorship/highly paid senior management at the top, and a tiny point at the bottom for the actual front line workers.

There have also been some well documented expensive failures too - it wasn't too long ago that many millions were wasted on some 'IT solution' that never went anywhere iirc. And you can put money on the fact, that those higher up the food chain, who were behind it; just got to go back to their well paid jobs and plan the next project. Whenever I see their IT equipment, it is often old Dell or HP units 7-9 years old; the very stuff my employer recycled 2 or 3 years ago!

It's all conjecture on my part though - but my Wife works in the NHS on the 'front line' and she, along with many colleagues, are being run ragged now; to the point people are weighing up dropping their careers as places like Asda pay better! Her team are bleeding staff, but at the same time, get used to prop up many other NHS functions - from Carer type work, to Social workers, through to GP-esq home visits and even stuff that should require an Ambulance crew! Over the years we've lost count of the evenings she has lost, as she has found a patient in dire need on a visit, and has had to either wait with them until a GP comes, or Ambulance arrives.

From what I've heard from workers, it's almost like things are purposely being pushed to breaking point, as it would then make the offer if a Privatised service, less of a jagged pill for Joe Public to swallow.
 
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I doubt more tax is the solution - any additional funds raised that way, would be squandered, and probably wouldn't make it to the NHS coffers anyway.

Oh, true enough, anything the government get their hands in, is an organisational mess.

It certainly wouldn't surprise me if the government is doing this deliberately. The Conservatives never believed in the NHS. They are still up for the poor people dying.
 
I think the tories would prefer private health insurance to the nhs. We have "Right To Choose" now in England whereby people can go to their GP and ask to be be referred to a private clinic of their choice, ok it's paid for by the nhs, but it's a step imo towards getting people into private treatment. Maybe they want to erode the nhs that much so that the public opinion of the nhs goes down and we develop a negative view of the nhs. I've had private treatment once before and it was like a luxury nhs experience with much shorter wait times. I'm currently paying for private treatment right now for an ailment the nhs, in my area, doesn't even provide treatment for. It did 13 years ago.
 
I think the tories would prefer private health insurance to the nhs. We have "Right To Choose" now in England whereby people can go to their GP and ask to be be referred to a private clinic of their choice, ok it's paid for by the nhs, but it's a step imo towards getting people into private treatment. Maybe they want to erode the nhs that much so that the public opinion of the nhs goes down and we develop a negative view of the nhs. I've had private treatment once before and it was like a luxury nhs experience with much shorter wait times. I'm currently paying for private treatment right now for an ailment the nhs, in my area, doesn't even provide treatment for. It did 13 years ago.

I think that is possibly a long term solution. Scrap the NHS and let everything go private. However, the government pays for basic insurance cover for everyone out of the NI contributions.
 
I think that is possibly a long term solution. Scrap the NHS and let everything go private. However, the government pays for basic insurance cover for everyone out of the NI contributions.

So how do people on the lowest income, those currently struggling, afford healthcare for long term or complex illnesses not covered by this "basic insurance cover"?

Scrap it, privatise it. At least that way I could access some decent level healthcare without being handicapped by the NHS that this country seems to worship as the holy grail, despite it being utter crap.

What's stopping you accessing decent level healthcare now? You have a choice to go private if you want... Forcing everyone to go private, including those on low incomes, will leave parts of the population without full cover however.




Taking the strain off the NHS caused by people with poor lifestyle choices would, I imagine, have a massive impact on the NHS. People, however, would rather the state do everything for them and take no responsibility whatsoever in helping themselves stay healthy; and then blame the very institution they are overloading via these poor choices.
 
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Same as in the US - they don't afford it.

So they ultimately die? Or do you have an alternative?

Edit - I'll describe that better

They are managed through a decline in well being with the support that the basic care provides and then die prematurely compared to full care that the NHS currently provides?
 
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So they ultimately die? Or do you have an alternative?
I wasn't suggesting this, but this is where that model goes. I'm an NHS doctor and fully support universal healthcare.

Problem is with ever increasing healthcare/drug costs and falling funding the NHS feels like it's on its last legs.
 
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I wasn't suggesting this, but this is where that model goes.

Suggest? Not in those exact words. But, as you state, that's what happens.

So state allowed euthanasia is ok?

In fact, euthanising them would be kinder rather then said people's health declining whilst the state manages this until their ultimate and untimely death through an illness that a wealthier person can be cured of.

I tend to find that the proponents of this kind of thinking are always ok with it...until it affects them, of course.
 
Suggest? Not in those exact words. But, as you state, that's what happens.

So state allowed euthanasia is ok?

In fact, euthanising them would be kinder rather then said people's health declining whilst the state manages this until their ultimate and untimely death through an illness that a wealthier person can be cured of.

I tend to find that the proponents of this kind of thinking are always ok with it...until it affects them, of course.
Currently this is what it feels like we are already creeping towards.

We have universal healthcare which is becoming harder and slower to access, meaning the wealthy go private and the poor are either left waiting or find the barriers to healthcare too great to even attempt to access in the first place. Nothing is being done to reverse this trend by the current Governement.

I work with some extremely deprived populations, often non-English speaking, and they present very late/can't readily access health or social care support and generally get much worse healthcare than the affluent populations in the same area.

I assume that this is all intentional on the part of the current Gov but maybe I'm a cynic.
 
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You really have to be careful not to get sick anymore.

I pulled something in my back and obviously have a pinched nerve but whether it is muscle related or slipped disc is anyone's guess till I can get scanned.

It has been almost a month and I can walk now without cramping in my left leg but I have constant pins and needles in my heel and still walk a little funny if I am being honest. I have gone back to work but have 3 weeks off end of August so can hopefully relax.

Still waiting for a letter from GP to refer me for an MRI scan almost a month on.

I was in A&E for two days for around 15-20 hours in total. First day I was given Oramorph which did nothing. Second day I wake up in bed with huge painful spasms in my back. I needed to support my weight on door frames just to get to the toilet where I nearly passed out with pain. My missus had to dress me as I had no chance getting my pants on!

Second time in A&E they put me on a prescription off Diazepam which seemed to sort me out. I wanted to be a inpatient obviously but there are no beds and in a NHS world 15 years ago I would have gotten that inpatient on my first day and being an inpatient I would have gotten that MRI next day.

I am 37 6ft3" fit and healthy who cycles most days yet I was reduced to being carted around in a wheel chair using my arms to support my weight.

I really do not mind supplementing my NHS privately like you would do with a dentist. I would quite happily pay £100-200 for an MRI for example.
 
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In recent years, I have seen people pay for private health care, due to huge waiting times.

Those people were (and still are) supporters of the NHS ideal- but reduced service has forced them to pay.

Generally, they are paying for a private consultation to short circuit the waiting list.

All of those people would have laughed if I had said, twenty years ago, they'd go private.
 
So how do people on the lowest income, those currently struggling, afford healthcare for long term or complex illnesses not covered by this "basic insurance cover"?
What's stopping you accessing decent level healthcare now? You have a choice to go private if you want... Forcing everyone to go private, including those on low incomes, will leave parts of the population without full cover however.

Taking the strain off the NHS caused by people with poor lifestyle choices would, I imagine, have a massive impact on the NHS. People, however, would rather the state do everything for them and take no responsibility whatsoever in helping themselves stay healthy; and then blame the very institution they are overloading via these poor choices.

Private in this country is nowhere close to what they have in the US and is still held back by the NHS.

That said, if it wasn’t for NHS negligence my family wouldn’t be multi millionaires, so there is that :p

I’ve seen far too many people maimed or just left to die by the NHS while the government pours money into a service that wastes it. Privatisation might even bring more accountability than there currently seems to be.

Problem is with ever increasing healthcare/drug costs and falling funding the NHS feels like it's on its last legs.

I don’t think there are any legs left. The government are just waiting for public opinion to shift away from keeping the NHS, and slowly slowly it’s getting there. Whichever way it goes, the NHS is not fit for purpose.
 
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Private in this country is nowhere close to what they have in the US and is still held back by the NHS.
I'm not entirely sure we should be holding the US system as any great bastion of healthcare. The cost is staggering and the outcomes aren't as peachy as you'd expect:


Now that data is obviously for the population as a whole, not just those that are well insured, but it's quite bleak.
 
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I'm not entirely sure we should be holding the US system as any great bastion of healthcare. The cost is staggering and the outcomes aren't as peachy as you'd expect:


Now that data is obviously for the population as a whole, not just those that are well insured, but it's quite bleak.

At least you don’t have to wait, get tests beyond what you actually need and get a hospital room to yourself in not much short of a 5 star hotel. Go into our hospitals and you’ll have a bed next to people crying in pain or some kind of substance abuse with the corridors lined with rubbish and a crumbling building. At least that’s my personal experience of the US vs both England and Wales.

I doubt our outcomes are on an upward trajectory either.
 
This is never a good thing. People love tests though.

It could be though, even if just for peace of mind and it could also pick something else up.

That said, the NHS missed all the stuff on the minimal tests they ran for my dad and then the GP subsequently ignored him for years until he became hugely unwell and then they went back to the original tests that even I could see were abnormal.

Ultimately we’re screwed when we need life saving medical care, depending on postcode and somewhat linked to earnings.
 
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Private in this country is nowhere close to what they have in the US and is still held back by the NHS.

That said, if it wasn’t for NHS negligence my family wouldn’t be multi millionaires, so there is that :p

So your family can now afford the best healthcare that being a multi millionaire allows... What do you suggest the poorest in our society do?

I don’t think there are any legs left. The government are just waiting for public opinion to shift away from keeping the NHS, and slowly slowly it’s getting there. Whichever way it goes, the NHS is not fit for purpose.

It's almost as if the current Governments regime of privatisation of everything so they and their mates can reap profits is coming to fruition... and the public are blindly following it like good little sheep...


The NHS should not be replaced and healthcare should be available and free to all as per the reason for the NHS formation after WWII. Scrapping it would be a travesty.
 
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