NHS=Negligent Health Service

[arknor]

It's a very serious crime for a Pathologist to purposely put the wrong diagnosis on a Post Mortem.
The family can apply for an Inquest so that all bases are covered.

I didn't mean that and I'm not saying the NHS is directly to blame for her death, I just posted about it here cos I didnt wanna start a new thread and I needed an outlet I guess.

I'm just wondering if it were pneumonia misdiagnosed as bronchitis or something.


I guess at the end of the day she should have gone back to the hospital, but with how the NHS is it's kind of designed to make you feel like a time waster when you go there, then it's not surprise people leave going back until it's kinda too late.
I don't think I've ever been told "you did the right thing coming to A&E" I always felt like a burden. (not that I've been much three times in my life)

maybe it's just the difference in attitudes when someone is seen as paying for health care versus someone seen as "getting it for free"


I'm told she was really bad even at A&E, I guess they don't give out oxygen bottles , if she had one she probably would have managed to live.

only 50, never smoked etc although she was quite large and I'm assuming that contributed to the very rapid decline.


everyone's medical kit at home should contain an sp02 ring/oximeter etc or get your selves fitness trackers that can monitor your vitals
Theres a guy on youtube who tests the accuracy of them https://www.youtube.com/@TheQuantifiedScientist


Just tragic that she died whilst her friend was just finishing packing her bag to go back to A&E and her own son had to be yelled to help with CPR

 

[SexyGreyFox]

maybe it's just the difference in attitudes when someone is seen as paying for health care versus someone seen as "getting it for free"

and in my experience is that attitude should stop.
I've been doing this job for 14 years and you wouldn't believe how many cases come in where patients try to claim against the NHS for Private work because the Clinician also works for the NHS.
You also wouldn't believe how many patients have Private treatment and then it's mopped up by the NHS.
My own Sister had breast surgery 4 weeks ago and her wound won't heal, guess who is treating her now?
However she got her operation immediately and didn't wait for weeks.
I accept in your example if the patient had arrived at a Private A&E where you are paying for immediate treatment it may have turned out different.

 

[arknor]

AFAIK Private Hospital don't actually have an A&E in this country, I'm guessing the doctor you would see at one is far better than the time pressed GPs who work A&E though,

I just think with a different countries healthcare system like mandatory health insurance people would be taken more seriously and not just assumed everyone is exaggerating, if you can't afford the state provides, if you don't choose your own package then the state will assign one for you ala Switzerland.

Is the problem really the model though or just the funding/waste in the NHS, I guess it's easy to compare directly to another country and see the failings without looking at the route cause.

Most cities over 20 years grew massively in population, yet the hospitals are all still about the same size as when they were originally built, maybe an extra wing or two.

that doesn't directly translate into a more efficient A&E though.


Last time I was in A&E some woman came in clearly in agony, pretty much screaming in pain holding her side.

probably burst appendix or something and shes still gotta sit down and wait.

Well she couldn't sit down she was just leaning against the wall.

Wen does it count as an Emergency in this country?

it was 4am on a Monday morning though.

Is the nurse in A&E who takes peoples blood pressure etc basically only doing that or do they do other things? because even for that it seemed like they were calling one person an hour.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Most cities over 20 years grew massively in population, yet the hospitals are all still about the same size as when they were originally built, maybe an extra wing or two.

My Trust went down around 500 beds about 10 years ago.
They thought that building a new hospital would require less beds for some reason

 

[tonys]

and in my experience is that attitude should stop.
I've been doing this job for 14 years and you wouldn't believe how many cases come in where patients try to claim against the NHS for Private work because the Clinician also works for the NHS.
You also wouldn't believe how many patients have Private treatment and then it's mopped up by the NHS.
My own Sister had breast surgery 4 weeks ago and her wound won't heal, guess who is treating her now?
However she got her operation immediately and didn't wait for weeks.
I accept in your example if the patient had arrived at a Private A&E where you are paying for immediate treatment it may have turned out different.

The difference in treatment, private would be every available test whether they needed it or not against only if necessary in the NHS

 

[tamzzy]

I just think with a different countries healthcare system like mandatory health insurance people would be taken more seriously and not just assumed everyone is exaggerating

I've left A+E/general medicine to be in the medical ivory tower that is intensive care. It is unfortunately rare that mis-diagnoses happens...whether this is indeed the case of your ex-wife (I don't have the full details so cannot comment any further).
It can be quite hard to tease out the difference between the "time-wasters" vs the "really unwell"...not that it should make any difference, and all patients should be approached as if they have a life-threatening illness until proven otherwise.

Back when I was working in gen med, there was this patient that was admitted nearly 150x in 9 months with recurrent "chest pain" only to find out that he would call the ambulance when he was having a tiff with his wife and just said he had chest pain so that he could go to A+E and not have to argue with his wife...

Most cities over 20 years grew massively in population, yet the hospitals are all still about the same size as when they were originally built, maybe an extra wing or two.
that doesn't directly translate into a more efficient A&E though.


Last time I was in A&E some woman came in clearly in agony, pretty much screaming in pain holding her side.
probably burst appendix or something and shes still gotta sit down and wait.
Well she couldn't sit down she was just leaning against the wall.
Wen does it count as an Emergency in this country?
it was 4am on a Monday morning though.
Is the nurse in A&E who takes peoples blood pressure etc basically only doing that or do they do other things? because even for that it seemed like they were calling one person an hour.

There simply isn't enough space nor staff to see patients
If the whole hospital is chock-a-block, it backs up into A+E - think of it like a massive traffic jam except this is happening on a one-lane A-road that is being downgraded to a B-road and with loads of potholes

 

[SexyGreyFox]

The difference in treatment, private would be every available test whether they needed it or not against only if necessary in the NHS

Not sure about that.
Last year my wife got drunk and fell over, smashed two teeth out and needed four stitches under her chin, they did every test on her because she said "I don't know what happened".
Eight hours before we came out.

 

[tonys]

Not sure about that.
Last year my wife got drunk and fell over, smashed two teeth out and needed four stitches under her chin, they did every test on her because she said "I don't know what happened".
Eight hours before we came out.

I was thinking more of the American system because the insurance is paying out. My mum kept collapsing every couple of weeks and having stroke symptoms, they didn't know what the problem was as she wasn't having a stroke each time. Every time she went in to A&E they performed exactly the same tests and said exactly the same things, as all the tests came back normal. So she went to see various consultants and in the end they diagnosed it as silent migraine. She had been told before this all started, that she had a slight blockage in one of the blood vessels in her neck but it was nothing to worry about. Now I thought about it and noticed she was bad after going out shopping(not every time though) so I wondered if this blockage caused the stroke like symptoms as they went away after a couple of hours to a day or so. I thought it was like a car having a fuel line blockage, put your foot down car runs like crap, idol runs fine. Never did find out.

 

[arknor]

I've left A+E/general medicine to be in the medical ivory tower that is intensive care. It is unfortunately rare that mis-diagnoses happens...whether this is indeed the case of your ex-wife (I don't have the full details so cannot comment any further).

I found out she actually had a cough for 4 weeks, then went to A&E and died 5 days later.
so seems it's not as sudden as I was originally informed, but I'm told like the last week was really bad and couldn't really function but sitting and breathing.

I'm still of the opinion A&E probably should have took her in if she was as bad as I'm being told.
might end up being sepsis then.


I was talking to my mum about it on facebook last night and learned

They laughed at Yvonne infection markers it was 170 should have been 10.

I don't know who shes referring to by "them" but I'm assuming she means the hospital staff.

I'm guessing 170 is crazy high and they thought it isn't possible and laughed it off?

Her friend is likely to kick up a huge fuss about it all either way as she's that type.

anything said on here won't be repeated to anyone else or anything.

certainly won't be encouraging her

 

[SexyGreyFox]

I found out she actually had a cough for 4 weeks, then went to A&E and died 5 days later.
so seems it's not as sudden as I was originally informed, but I'm told like the last week was really bad and couldn't really function but sitting and breathing.

I'm still of the opinion A&E probably should have took her in,
might end up being sepsis then.


I was talking to my mum about it on facebook last night and learned


I don't know who shes referring to by "them" but I'm assuming she means the hospital staff.

I'm guessing 170 is crazy high and they thought it isn't possible and laughed it off?

Her friend is likely to kick up a huge fuss about it all either way as she's that type.

anything said on here won't be repeated to anyone else or anything.

certainly won't be encouraging her

I can't stress enough that Complaints should be made, the Coroners Office should be informed if you think there's been a Breach of Duty.
It also keeps me in a job.

 

[arknor]

I can't stress enough that Complaints should be made, the Coroners Office should be informed if you think there's been a Breach of Duty.
It also keeps me in a job.

her friend will surely complain.

I'm just saying anything speculated on here stays on here.

I don't want to sit moaning about the NHS in real life with people are are grieving.

probably just ends up with misdirected anger right

 

[tamzzy]

I found out she actually had a cough for 4 weeks, then went to A&E and died 5 days later.
so seems it's not as sudden as I was originally informed, but I'm told like the last week was really bad and couldn't really function but sitting and breathing.

I'm still of the opinion A&E probably should have took her in if she was as bad as I'm being told.
might end up being sepsis then.
I was talking to my mum about it on facebook last night and learned
I don't know who shes referring to by "them" but I'm assuming she means the hospital staff.
I'm guessing 170 is crazy high and they thought it isn't possible and laughed it off?

Her friend is likely to kick up a huge fuss about it all either way as she's that type.
anything said on here won't be repeated to anyone else or anything.
certainly won't be encouraging her

@arknor I'm sorry for your loss

I can't say for certain (as I wasn't there nor privvy to the discussions had)

I'm guessing that 170 is the CRP which is one of the markers for infection - it is high but not "crazy high" but definitely wouldn't be "laughed off" by any medic worth their salt
it's not the only reason why one would've got admitted though. the observations, chest x-ray and how the patient looks "at the end of the bed" is probably more important...
...if she was as unwell as you described...i would be very disappointed (and in fact, would be fuming) if any of my juniors sent her home in that state and would encourage a complaint so that it can be looked at and ensure that there was no medical neglect
however, as i said, i wasn't there so cannot make any more judgements more than that

 

[arknor]

pulmonary embolism
Should that have been picked up at A&E? or is it something thats hard to detect?

 

[heeeed]

Without all the information about findings when seen I don’t think anyone can really say on the forum arknor. There could have been features to suggest, but there may not always have been something suggestive, or other things that muddied the waters making something else more likely

 

[FBi7]

pulmonary embolism
Should that have been picked up at A&E? or is it something thats hard to detect?

My sympathies.

PEs are detectable via imaging and a blood test (a different blood test to the normal ED blood tests), although the presentation of a patient with a PE would normally give you a hunch what's going on.

Sorry to say, I think there's every chance this PE formed after your Ex's ED attendance.

 

[arknor]

My sympathies.

PEs are detectable via imaging and a blood test (a different blood test to the normal ED blood tests), although the presentation of a patient with a PE would normally give you a hunch what's going on.

Sorry to say, I think there's every chance this PE formed after your Ex's ED attendance.

She was on Amoxicillin from the hospital.
Her oldest son is of the opinion because of the pneumonia or whatever it was, she just wasn't moving about enough and a clot must have formed and there was nothing anyone could really do.

So I guess the Coroner has gave the closure people needed.

 

[FBi7]

she just wasn't moving about enough and a clot must have formed and there was nothing anyone could really do.

That's one possibility. However there are many more potential causes and many, many, more secondary effects of acute conditions. I won't go into them here.

At the same time. People sometimes die, regardless of minor preceeding ailments, and at any time. And this is something people are uncomfortable with accepting.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

So I guess the Coroner has gave the closure people needed.

A Pathologist and Coroner's verdict in less than a week?
It takes us at least 6 weeks where we are.

 

[Allnamestaken]

Yesterday morning I walk past a friend of the ex wife.

She said shes going to my ex wifes to phone her an ambulance and take her to hospital.
about an hour later I hear sirens and see 2 ambulances and a medical car rush in to the street.
about 40 minutes later I get a text from my son saying to come round.

Greeted at the door by a crying 19year old.

find out her friend was just finishing packing her bag for the hospital, went to get a book from the bedroom, came back and found my ex wife having a seizure on the couch. (medical staff mentioned that can happen from too less oxygen getting to the brain)

The friend and my son did CPR but nothing.

I'm told she went to A&E 5 days prior and got told it was a chest infection and given antibiotics, the NHS were refusing to take her in to their care at that point.

wonder what the autopsy report will say was the cause.

Can't see similar happening in a country with first world medical care like Switzerland etc.

looking at google it['s possible the day she was at A&E was a junior doctor strike day.

and I'm guessing on those days they want use up as least beds as possible

I’m sorry to hear this.

My mother went in on junior strike day too. It was her only saving grace, the fact the a&e was staffed by senior consultants i what saved her. They found a brain tumor which was causing her symptoms.

It was constantly being ignored the months prior despite all signs, she felt like she was dying and she was basically.

Sorry this happenend to your loved ones and yourself.

 

[arknor]

A Pathologist and Coroner's verdict in less than a week?
It takes us at least 6 weeks where we are.

NHS website says within 24 hours is possible? I'm In the Newcastle Upon Tyne btw so if your down south maybe that's why it takes so long? higher populated area etc

Body was taken away at like 6pm ish and coroner phoned back sometime the next day saying the cause of death.

A post-mortem will be carried out as soon as possible, usually within 2 to 3 working days of a person's death.

In some cases, it may be possible for it to take place within 24 hours.