Nikkon Mirrorless incoming

[i know nothing]

Because, erm, you can't be interested in both the intellectual and creative aspects? You are only capable of one or the other? That seems a little black or white.

Saying "all we did was remove the mirror" is ignoring the actual benefits, like live view EVF, hybrid autofocus, overall lighter and more compact gear (even if not always dramatically). Do you apply the same blase logic to all technological developments that ultimately make things better?

Trivial improvements that offer no little or no benefit to me. I did try, you'll note earlier that I tried to find a reason as to why all this ground breaking and super duper "new" and exciting tech might change things for me, but it just didn't deliver. I may well try again in the future though, I'm not one to rule things out completely.

Are you suggesting that people who like discussing cameras do not go out and shoot and enjoy the results? Are you, posting on the forum at this moment, out there 'shooting and enjoying the results'? Again, this is just bad logic.

If you say so, I wouldn't want to even try and compete with someone of your intellectual capabilities on an internet forum where no one knows who I am. I've too much to lose. But, I'm still not going to play Top Trumps with you.

 

[Greebo]

While I agree the whole launch is rushed and not well marketed at all, the dual card slot is totally irrelevant because a Single XQD card is far more reliable than 2 SD cards.
LEts say an SD card would fail 1 time in P (maybe XPis 10,000).
With 2 SD cards the probability of loosing everything is now 1 in 2P

But the XQD cards are something like 10x more reliable, so the probability of the single XQD card failing is 1 in 10P., you are still 5 times less liekly to loose all your images than if you had 2 SD card slots.

If the Nikon Z6/7 came with 2 XQD slots then the camera would be bigger and more expensive. If it added an SD card slow then the data rate would eb reduced to the SD speed which is not desirable. And going form the above, athe addition of a single SD card would improve odds from 1 in 10P to 1 in 11P, a 10% improvement which is not much considering the big slow down.

Furthermore, Nikon are clearly not aiming these cameras at professionals. There is absolutely no reason you would pick either camera over a D850 for a wedding (which coincidentally, has an SD + XQD and the pros will use a single XQD card).

The bigger issue for professionals is the small buffer size and pathetic battery life, although the latter is just the curse of mirrorless. It would have been nice if Nikon used the 150grams saved from the mirror to make a far larger battery pack to maintain a the 1500shots pros are used to.



It is a bit of a mystery why the Launch was rushed, but perhaps tehy got freaked out by rumours of Canon's mirrorless, or they needed to do somehtign for sharehodlers or to meet fiscal deadlines.
As indication oif the rush, firmware is apparently only version 0.5X, while typically Nikon will announce a camera with firmware version 0.9X, and will be shipped with version 1.0X.

All that ebing said, if you have a decent Nikon collection and like the Nikon system, then there is absolutely no reason to Switch to a Sony mirrorless unless you are incredibly impatient. You;ve got a competent Sony A7III equivalent, it will be better in some aspects and worse in others. Sony is liekyl a little ahead but within a few years Nikon's mirrorless camera will be every bit as good.


As long as Nikon keeps creating lenses like the new 500mm f/5.6 PF then there isn't a chance I would move to Sony.

Maths isn't your strong point? The odds.of losing everything with two SD cards is P squared not 2P. So unless xqd card is a multiple of P more relaible than SD then two SD are going to be less likely to lose everything by a factor of thousands of times.

I appreciate that it would slow down writing but it would give the user the choice. They don't have to use the second slot and personally for me I save raw to one slot and jpg to the other so there is very.little.slow down

 

[Richdog]

Trivial improvements that offer no little or no benefit to me. I did try, you'll note earlier that I tried to find a reason as to why all this ground breaking and super duper "new" and exciting tech might change things for me, but it just didn't deliver. I may well try again in the future though, I'm not one to rule things out completely.

I would argue that generally speaking, seeing the results of a photo before you press the shutter button are not even remotely trivial to any photographer, especially those capturing family moments and weddings where the wrong settings can mean failing to capture a moment that will never be repeated. Maybe that sort of thing doesn't matter to you, but the overall benefits are still undeniable and it has positively changed mine and many people I know's photography as a result. More keepers = always a positive thing.

If you say so, I wouldn't want to even try and compete with someone of your intellectual capabilities on an internet forum where no one knows who I am. I've too much to lose. But, I'm still not going to play Top Trumps with you.

If you actually read what I wrote I didn't say your intellectual capabilities were less than mine or anyone else's, I said you were (from the simplicity of your arguments) unwilling to discuss it on a more intellectual level. Your responses now just make you look insecure about the whole thing.

 

[D.P.]

Maths isn't your strong point? The odds.of losing everything with two SD cards is P squared not 2P. So unless xqd card is a multiple of P more relaible than SD then two SD are going to be less likely to lose everything by a factor of thousands of times.

I appreciate that it would slow down writing but it would give the user the choice. They don't have to use the second slot and personally for me I save raw to one slot and jpg to the other so there is very.little.slow down

Point taken ( i was copying someone elses post and didn't even think), But I hazard the real risk is no a card failure which is extremely remote but dropping a camera in a river or having it stolen.

 

[D.P.]

I would argue that generally speaking, seeing the results of a photo before you press the shutter button are not even remotely trivial to any photographer, especially those capturing family moments and weddings where the wrong settings can mean failing to capture a moment that will never be repeated. Maybe that sort of thing doesn't matter to you, but the overall benefits are still undeniable and it has positively changed mine and many people I know's photography as a result. More keepers = always a positive thing.



If you actually read what I wrote I didn't say your intellectual capabilities were less than mine or anyone else's, I said you were (from the simplicity of your arguments) unwilling to discuss it on a more intellectual level. Your responses now just make you look insecure about the whole thing.

I've never seen anyone say they get more keepers with a mirrorless.

And is not even tru, what you see in the EVF is nothing like what the image you can actually capture. For example, if you set up a 2 minute exposure or a seascape, you dont; see that effect in The EVF. If you use a flash, that wont be shown in the EVF, if you expose to the left to preserve hihglights you wont really see the true DR of the RAW

 

[D.P.]

Here is a good overview from Thom Hogan of the future of DSRL vs Mirrorless
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews...8-nikon-news/dslrs-dead-in-transition-or.html

Thom is generally pretty accurate with his predictions, so a D5 like mirror-less Z camera (Z9?) potentially in time for Olympics. That will be the pro camera with dual card slots and bigger batteries.

Mirrorless will definitely start replacing the low end end as that is where the most savings can be made, margins are smallest and the users are less critical of AF of EVF deficiencies. technology just cnanot support the capabilities pfo the D850 and D5 in a mirrorless camera yet.

 

[i know nothing]

I would argue that generally speaking, seeing the results of a photo before you press the shutter button are not even remotely trivial to any photographer, especially those capturing family moments and weddings where the wrong settings can mean failing to capture a moment that will never be repeated. Maybe that sort of thing doesn't matter to you, but the overall benefits are still undeniable and it has positively changed mine and many people I know's photography as a result. More keepers = always a positive thing.

You see, this is where we're different. Whilst I appreciate that may be important to some, I just don't consider that as important. I'm no Pro, but I'm quite capable of adjusting settings myself to get the results I want. However, I do know that if I wish to review the image I've taken, I can use the LCD on the back, but I also know very well that the LCD cannot be relied on and I've since found out that neither can the EVF in a mirrorless camera. I think I'll wait for the technology to improve, I just don't think it's there yet and it's certainly not worth the money in my book. Regarding keepers, improved AF in certain situations is what interests me, hence my previous comments about AF. I've managed to take thousands of "keepers" over the last 30 years to know that I am quite capable of working with far less than the miserable 53 points (something like that, I'm not even sure as I don't really care) that I currently have.

If you actually read what I wrote I didn't say your intellectual capabilities were less than mine or anyone else's, I said you were (from the simplicity of your arguments) unwilling to discuss it on a more intellectual level. Your responses now just make you look insecure about the whole thing.

Of course your intellectual capabilities are not superior, I was just pulling your leg. I'm totally secure with what I've got, what I've said about what I've got as well as what I have said (generally) about mirrorless. Until we see some actual reviews, we're just playing Top Trumps, I'm not interested in playing that game.

 

[Greebo]

And tmi see today the Panasonic next camera before the year is out is going to be a FF mirrorless. Starting to get crowded

 

[Raymond Lin]

I've never seen anyone say they get more keepers with a mirrorless.

And is not even tru, what you see in the EVF is nothing like what the image you can actually capture. For example, if you set up a 2 minute exposure or a seascape, you dont; see that effect in The EVF. If you use a flash, that wont be shown in the EVF, if you expose to the left to preserve hihglights you wont really see the true DR of the RAW

I get more keepers with mirrorless.

From your posts I don’t think you have tried the latest Sony cameras. Especially with eye Af.

 

[jonneymendoza]

I've never seen anyone say they get more keepers with a mirrorless.

And is not even tru, what you see in the EVF is nothing like what the image you can actually capture. For example, if you set up a 2 minute exposure or a seascape, you dont; see that effect in The EVF. If you use a flash, that wont be shown in the EVF, if you expose to the left to preserve hihglights you wont really see the true DR of the RAW

I get more keepers on mirrorless

 

[Mekrel]

Which is exactly how Nikon lenses mount when you are holding the camera normally.

The white mark on the lens may be going from left to right, but you're still screwing anticlockwise even with the sensor facing away from you.

If you face a soft drink bottle towards you (the top of the cap is pointing at you), you fasten the top by turning clockwise or in this case left to right. If you turn the bottle 180 degrees, you still have to turn the top clockwise to tighten it. It's just going right to left now.

The Nikon lens turns anti clockwise no matter what way you're looking at it. A clock doesn't suddenly start going back in time because you face it away from you.

 

[Raymond Lin]

The white mark on the lens may be going from left to right, but you're still screwing anticlockwise even with the sensor facing away from you.

If you face a soft drink bottle towards you (the top of the cap is pointing at you), you fasten the top by turning clockwise or in this case left to right. If you turn the bottle 180 degrees, you still have to turn the top clockwise to tighten it. It's just going right to left now.

The Nikon lens turns anti clockwise no matter what way you're looking at it. A clock doesn't suddenly start going back in time because you face it away from you.

He is twisting the facts to win an silly argument just because the way something is facing.

What is the camera is facing sideways???? Is that clockwise or anti-clockwise?

 

[crinkleshoes]

Looks like Sony buyers haven't missed out on anything.

My A7R3 has been kicking out some great shots & there's some really good glass behind it.

I'm sure Nikon will catch up on the glass front... but really poor show to change the mount in the first place... let alone not backing up the release with proper glass.

 

[Wedge]

He is twisting the facts to win an silly argument just because the way something is facing.

What is the camera is facing sideways???? Is that clockwise or anti-clockwise?

Hahaha, this is just getting silly, who actually give a r4ts behind which way a lens screws on, I have only ever used Nikon, So my Nikon lenses screw on the right way, because its the only way I know, So what that all other lenses screw on the other way (they all all wrong btw, Only joking ) lets leave this be, its a waste of everybody's time!

 

[Richdog]

I get more keepers with mirrorless.

From your posts I don’t think you have tried the latest Sony cameras. Especially with eye Af.

I get more keepers on mirrorless

Yup it is literally impossible not to have more keepers, his arguments are not even logical and based, like many e-arguments in the photography world, on denial of fact.

Hahaha, this is just getting silly, who actually give a r4ts behind which way a lens screws on, I have only ever used Nikon, So my Nikon lenses screw on the right way, because its the only way I know, So what that all other lenses screw on the other way (they all all wrong btw, Only joking ) lets leave this be, its a waste of everybody's time!

I have to agree with this... wtf is with people even caring about this? So it turns the other way, how long does it take to get used to that?

It is similar in principle to the focus rings of some manufacturers going the opposite way. Easily dealt with.

 

[Greebo]

Well canon has just shown Nikon how to make a FF mirrorless camera and how to launch one

Canon EOS R specs and images:

30.3 Million Pixels Full Size CMOS
Dual pixel CMOS AF
The ranging range is 100 × width 88% of the live view video display range
EV-6 low brightness autofocus
4K video
Touch panel liquid crystal
Multifunction bar installed (2nd picture image)
Wi-Fi · Bluetooth installed
Dustproof drip-proof · magnesium body
Battery: LP-E6N
Battery grip: BG-E 22
Size: Width of about 136 mm × height of about 98 mm
Weight: Approximately 580 g
Mount: inner diameter 54 mm, flange back 20 mm, 12 pin
Mount adapter: “Mount adapter EF – EOS R” “Control ring mount adapter EF – EOS R” “Drop – in filter mount adapter EF – EOS R”

It will be launched with an adapter and the following FOUR new lens for the new mount

RF 35mm F1.8 Macro IS STM
RF 50mm F1.2L USM
RF 28-70mm F2L USM
RF 24-105mm F4L IS USM

That’s some tasty glass there which will make Canon users upgrade. Hopefully Sony will put their finger out and do a 35mmf1.8 now as well.

The 28-70 f2 will be great for wedding photographers.

 

[Richdog]

Well canon has just shown Nikon how to make a FF mirrorless camera and how to launch one

Canon EOS R specs and images:

30.3 Million Pixels Full Size CMOS
Dual pixel CMOS AF
The ranging range is 100 × width 88% of the live view video display range
EV-6 low brightness autofocus
4K video
Touch panel liquid crystal
Multifunction bar installed (2nd picture image)
Wi-Fi · Bluetooth installed
Dustproof drip-proof · magnesium body
Battery: LP-E6N
Battery grip: BG-E 22
Size: Width of about 136 mm × height of about 98 mm
Weight: Approximately 580 g
Mount: inner diameter 54 mm, flange back 20 mm, 12 pin
Mount adapter: “Mount adapter EF – EOS R” “Control ring mount adapter EF – EOS R” “Drop – in filter mount adapter EF – EOS R”

It will be launched with an adapter and the following FOUR new lens for the new mount

RF 35mm F1.8 Macro IS STM
RF 50mm F1.2L USM
RF 28-70mm F2L USM
RF 24-105mm F4L IS USM

That’s some tasty glass there which will make Canon users upgrade. Hopefully Sony will put their finger out and do a 35mmf1.8 now as well.

The 28-70 f2 will be great for wedding photographers.

It will not be great for wedding photographers if it doesn't have dual card slots... and I cannot see that listed as a spec.

 

[Raymond Lin]

It will not be great for wedding photographers if it doesn't have dual card slots... and I cannot see that listed as a spec.

or IBIS.

 

[Richdog]

or IBIS.

...or a joystick.

In fact, given those specs I would say the Nikon Z7 looks better.

 

[Raymond Lin]

...or a joystick.

In fact, given those specs I would say the Nikon Z7 looks better.

Vloggers will get the Canon though because of the flip out screen to the side.