Nikkon Mirrorless incoming

Columbo said:
While you are correct, its a new system and systems mature over time and that why Nikon released the lens roadmap at the same time but the choice of release day lenses looks poor for sure.
Noting that, there is a serious lack of telephoto lenses on that roadmap with the 70-200 f2.8 being the longest being confirmed now which seems odd.

In addition it seems that other than the 58mm f0.95, all the other lenses are pretty much standard offerings in terms of focal length and apertures ranges and is a missed opportunity in my mind.
Whats the point in just replacing the existing range lenses on F-Mount? Why not offer something new and different?

I just don't know who this setup is for this early, I don't see it bringing in the Canon or Sony crowd, m4/3 people won't want the bulk, Nikon Pro's wont be able to stand the 300 shot battery life and the cost is limiting to anyone new in or upgrading.
So in my mind it will be the true, die hard Nikon crew that will buy in early which is probably good because Nikon are seemingly incapable of managing their supply chain properly of late.
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If you own a large telephoto lens, why would you ever bother moving away form a D850/D5 to one of these mirrorless setups? The long telephotos will come eventually, but they take years to produce and none of the cameras are up to the job yet. Eventually sensor based PDAF will be good enough that pros will be more interested but until then DSLR will still rule.

The only real advantage or a mirrorless setup for a pro is very fast continuous shooting for sports and BiF. Neither of these cameras have the grunt and are not marketed towards such pros.



These camera are for the D600/D700 type crow using a nikon 24-120 f/4 etc. The Z6 would be a nice upgrade to a D600 owner for example. The Z7 will perhaps appeal to landscaper shooters once the wide lenses are out but it doesn't provide any advantage over a D850.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Why would I want to think that deep?

It’s a screw mount, are you seriously suggesting Sony, Canon, Fuji, etc got it wrong and Nikon is the only one got it right?

Come on, that’s pure bias.
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that is the point, you don't have to think. You just screw on a lens clockwise and it works naturally, you don't have to think about inverting the coordinates system.

What other companies do or don;t do is pretty irrelevant.

Nikon copies Zeiss-contax direction, because Nikon was originally only a lens manufacturer. Canon copied Leica which rotated the other way.

Nikon considered how a cmaera is really used and kept the Zeiss convention because it made the most sense when the camera is pointign away from you.

If you are right handed, then Nikon's direction is easier and more natural
 
D.P. said:
that is the point, you don't have to think. You just screw on a lens clockwise and it works naturally, you don't have to think about inverting the coordinates system.

What other companies do or don;t do is pretty irrelevant.

Nikon copies Zeiss-contax direction, because Nikon was originally only a lens manufacturer. Canon copied Leica which rotated the other way.

Nikon considered how a cmaera is really used and kept the Zeiss convention because it made the most sense when the camera is pointign away from you.

If you are right handed, then Nikon's direction is easier and more natural
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I am right handed and finds the Nikon direction retarded. Natural it aren’t.

I don’t think because it’s a mount, I shouldn’t need to think, do you think why when you open a bottle? Open a door? Open your fridge?

Somethings are designed so you don’t and shouldn’t need to think. It’s call ergonomics.
 
D.P. said:
I'm dubious the EVF is that good TBH. Howeve,r what you really want to be doing is using histograms to check exposure, and this probably works OK through the EVF and is certainly fine on the LCD.
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I don't want to be looking at histograms quite honestly. Whilst I appreciate they're useful for some people when it comes to "general exposure", they're no good to me when I'm fine tuning the settings on my strobe(s) or feathering a softbox. I'd use a histogram very rarely to check for clipping and that's about it. I want to review my image without glasses through the EVF, I don't want to mess about putting glasses on to look at a LCD and then wonder if it's right or not. I agree that the new EVF's may or may not be up to the task, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I am right handed and finds the Nikon direction retarded. Natural it aren’t.

I don’t think because it’s a mount, I shouldn’t need to think, do you think why when you open a bottle? Open a door? Open your fridge?

Somethings are designed so you don’t and shouldn’t need to think. It’s call ergonomics.
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I'm right handed, and when I picked up my first Nikon putitng on the lens was completely natural, as was the case for millions of Nikon users over the years. The same cannot be said for Canon since you have to rotate the lens anti-clockwise when holding the camera round your neck. That is ergonomics, design based on the intended use and not engineering.

Bottle caps and door handles are irrelevant, I don't have to use them back to front unlike a camera which is held with the front pointing away from you.
 
i know nothing said:
I don't want to be looking at histograms quite honestly. Whilst I appreciate they're useful for some people when it comes to "general exposure", they're no good to me when I'm fine tuning the settings on my strobe(s) or feathering a softbox. I'd use a histogram very rarely to check for clipping and that's about it. I want to review my image without glasses through the EVF, I don't want to mess about putting glasses on to look at a LCD and then wonder if it's right or not. I agree that the new EVF's may or may not be up to the task, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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But you really can;t tell anything from the reviewed images exposure wise, far too many variable. The DR of either the LCD or EVF are massively below what the RAW image stores. The histogram gives instant feedback on the exposure across colour channels and is completely independent of any brightness setting or display inadequacies.


I can; understand the frustration swapping between screen and EVF. The EVF may provide sufficient viewing of a histogram. If reviewing the image then the LCD will liekly provide a more accurate image.
 
D.P. said:
But you really can;t tell anything from the reviewed images exposure wise, far too many variable. The DR of either the LCD or EVF are massively below what the RAW image stores. The histogram gives instant feedback on the exposure across colour channels and is completely independent of any brightness setting or display inadequacies.

I can; understand the frustration swapping between screen and EVF. The EVF may provide sufficient viewing of a histogram. If reviewing the image then the LCD will liekly provide a more accurate image.
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Maybe I'm asking too much! Still, I'd imagine that sort of technology will exist in the not too distant future, essentially an EVF is just a small 'monitor' right?
 
i know nothing said:
Maybe I'm asking too much! Still, I'd imagine that sort of technology will exist in the not too distant future, essentially an EVF is just a small 'monitor' right?
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It si a smaller version of the LCD screen that has to make more compromises in terms of DR and so on in order to offer a high enough pixel density and refresh rate to be usable. With the push in VR there should be accelerated progress though, but the EVF will be heind the rear LCD screen for quite some time I imagine, but you wont get reflections.
 
D.P. said:
I'm right handed, and when I picked up my first Nikon putitng on the lens was completely natural, as was the case for millions of Nikon users over the years. The same cannot be said for Canon since you have to rotate the lens anti-clockwise when holding the camera round your neck. That is ergonomics, design based on the intended use and not engineering.

Bottle caps and door handles are irrelevant, I don't have to use them back to front unlike a camera which is held with the front pointing away from you.
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You ever heard of Norman Doors? The question isn't asking Nikon users, people already used to the mount, it is asking people who never used it what their natural expectation is.

Ask someone who has never used a DSLR, any DSLR, ask them "Which direction they think you should twist to lock the lens down."

Do you think most people would say anti-clockwise?
 
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Drollic said:
If you're swapping out lenses that often for direction of the locking mechanism to be a concern, it's probably time for another camera body?
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This will depend entirely on an individual's preference, not really practical for someone who shoots mainly primes to get multiple camera bodies for each commonly used focal length. If you're happy to shoot with a couple of zooms then maybe.
 
Raymond Lin said:
You ever heard of Norman Doors? The question isn't asking Nikon users, people already used to the mount, it is asking people who never used it what their natural expectation is.

Ask someone who has never used a DSLR, any DSLR, ask them "Which direction they think you should twist to lock the lens down."

Do you think most people would say anti-clockwise?
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No, most people will say clockwise, whcih is the direction you turn it when you are holding a Nikon DSLR when you most liekly want to put a lens on it.
 
My view is unchanged - it is a release to stem the flow of current Nikon owners going out and buying a Sony. And it is a rushed release, looking at the newly available lenses. I'm sure Nikon will get there in the end, one just wonders where Sony will have arrived at by then!
 
The_Abyss said:
My view is unchanged - it is a release to stem the flow of current Nikon owners going out and buying a Sony. And it is a rushed release, looking at the newly available lenses. I'm sure Nikon will get there in the end, one just wonders where Sony will have arrived at by then!
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Agreed. Nikon had to start somewhere and stop the defection. It’s a start and that’s it basically. I have often said it will take Nikon two years to catch Sony up but the question is where will Sony be by then? Global shutters and organic sensors probably
 
The_Abyss said:
My view is unchanged - it is a release to stem the flow of current Nikon owners going out and buying a Sony. And it is a rushed release, looking at the newly available lenses. I'm sure Nikon will get there in the end, one just wonders where Sony will have arrived at by then!
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There are rumors of a cut-down A9 to compete with the XT3 so you may well be right. It may well be affordable to run two separate systems at the same time (as far as bodies are concerned) if it's going to be as cheap as suggested.
 
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D.P. said:
The D7500 had a single card clot to properly differentiate the D500. Before that the D300 was regarded as too old so Nikon gave the D7000 camera aspects that a semi-pro might want.

The commission of dual card slots on these Z cameras is not surprising because they are obviously not aimed at pros. Why on earth would any pro stop using a D5/D850? There is nothing any mirror-less can do to match the performance of the Nikon pro camera.

The rumours of poor AF performance just highlights that technology is just there to support a sensor-based PDAF system that comes close to a dedicated PDAF system like the D5 has. The Sony A9 AF might be better than the Nikon Z, but the D5 AF is in a different league altogether.
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Nikon wanted to differentiate the D7500 from the D500. I don't understand what point you are making, does that suddenly make the D7500 suck less? No it doesn't, a dual slot Nikon DX camera now costs more than an FX camera, ridiculous. People that want a dual card camera therefore buy the cheaper D610 rather the D500 or D7500, this directly reduces sales of those 2 bodies, especially so because an FX body is better for sports with it's ISO performance.

Why would a pro stop using a Nikon? Are you serious? This whole release was made because Nikon users are switching to Sony mirrorless.

Furthermore, dual card slots are not even a "pro" feature, hobbyists like myself demand dual card slots. I can't afford for my shoot to be ruined by a card failure, therefore I would not buy this mirrorless.

D.P. said:
The problem is it takes time to produce lenses. The crystals take a few month to grow, and then assembly lines are set up to make a specific lens and that 1 lens type is made for 3-4 months before the line is re-tooled for a different lens. Releasing the Nikon Z cameras with a large lens line up would involve waiting an extra year or 2, or sacrificing production of other lenses. It is clear the F-mount is not going away any time soon either.

Itys a bit premature to say the Z-mount system wont appeal to anyone. Lets check in 20,30-50 years time to see what kind of success the Z-mount has compared to the f-mount. It is very early days.
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A large lens line up? Does a 24-70mm f/2.8 constitute a "large lens lineup"? Christ they could have released existing F mount lenses adapted to the Z mount to at least give users something to start with.

I never said the Z mount system would not appeal to anyone in 20 years time, however Sony has an appealing lens lineup right now...
 
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