Its not flattering, but my this is funny...
Dont watch the last few mins as it has EoG spoilers!
ps3ud0
That last 5 minutes, killed me, lol hilarious.
No Man's Sky
- Thread starter Atlas23
- Start date
That last 5 minutes, killed me, lol hilarious.
Soldato
- Joined
- 24 Sep 2013
- Posts
- 2,658
Same here
Honestly Sean Murray is so full of ****. blatantly lying his way through EVERY interview
I think the idea is the planets "were" procedurally generated. I.e. They created the NMS universe on a server before the game was released with a procedural algorithm so it "was" procedurally generated at the time each planet was created.
Otherwise yeah... they have a specific mechanic that you can visit a planet someone else had discovered. How would that be possible if everyone was living in their own procedurally generated universe?I.e. This was intended by them and the universe is SO big that it doesn't really matter when the universe was created to the player.
The planet's *are* procedurally generated. It's both random AND deterministic. Important to understand! Same planet seed? Exactly the same planet for every player that visits it.
I was under the impression that the universe was created before anyone got to see it and so the planets you land on are procedurally created as you visit them they have already been defined. Which could also be defined as both random and deterministic.
What you're saying is that each planet is defined as a planet seed until a player discovers it at which point it randomly generates and is then fixed for all other players that visit it? That's almost the same thought as me I just presumed they'd already generated the planets.
My understanding was that the whole universe was procedurally generated, so each planet is already defined within whatever unique seed value(s?) created it. We just see that 'saved state' but have no influence on how that planet is created
ps3ud0
ps3ud0
Lookup 'deterministic'
One single seed is used to create the entire universe, which defines the seeds for each planet, and everything in that planet. Everything is identical every time you generate it.Let's play nice, OK? Jeez! Not helpful or constructive.Lookup 'deterministic'
I hear what you're saying. Our confusion was that I thought that a 'seed' wasn't as perfectly specific as to always generate precisely the same world every time. I presumed it was a list of abstract instructions to generate the same distribution of 'random' environmental features. So, in fact, if you wanted to be helpful you should've suggested I look up more information on 'seeds'.
So what, in fact, you're saying is that the worlds aren't loaded up and stored on a sever in any other way than just a seed that describe it's structure precisely. And that's all the info that the game needs to generate it perfectly every time. This makes perfect sense to me.
And, perhaps more interestingly, supports the whole 'This game wasn't meant to be multiplayer' thing since 2 people on the same planet in the same place are, in fact, on 2 instances of precisely the same seed. They hinted at multiplayer in the future though I think that goes completely against the current way the game was developed. I suppose they could hash something together though... Food for thought.
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Procedural generation works using pseudo random number generators. The important part is the pseudo. You need to give the RNG a seed to start with, for cryptography etc there's an entire science behind picking a truly random seed.
For games though, the deterministic nature of PRNG is vital. It means that when dealing with random stuff in multiplayer games, you can start a RNG on each client, and on the server, and if you give them all the same seed, all clients and server always produce the same result, really useful for saving bandwidth.
As you say, in NMS, each player is on their own, separate planet that just happens to have been seeded the same so it looks identical. There is absolutely no replication of world state going on between clients, that's why I was never expecting MP.
It is probably do-able, but it would be a mega engineering feat, probably beyond a small team.
For games though, the deterministic nature of PRNG is vital. It means that when dealing with random stuff in multiplayer games, you can start a RNG on each client, and on the server, and if you give them all the same seed, all clients and server always produce the same result, really useful for saving bandwidth.
As you say, in NMS, each player is on their own, separate planet that just happens to have been seeded the same so it looks identical. There is absolutely no replication of world state going on between clients, that's why I was never expecting MP.
It is probably do-able, but it would be a mega engineering feat, probably beyond a small team.
I am coming round to this was of thinking, too. Though I don't think it was to rush it out, I think it was cut just to get it out.
I am enjoying what there is though and I do hope they keep updating it down the line.
Soldato
Once you actually pause and think about the constant stream of BS that Sean Murray and Hello Games have peddled in order to make a tonne of money, it's particularly offensive.
It's a hollow, broken excuse for a game. Sony and Hello Games should be ashamed of themselves.
Thank god I'm only going to lose £1 shopping it in with Cex.
It's a hollow, broken excuse for a game. Sony and Hello Games should be ashamed of themselves.
Thank god I'm only going to lose £1 shopping it in with Cex.
Soldato
Wow! I posted what I thought to be a innocent funny video and this thread suddenly takes a turn for the worse. I think because I didn't get on the hype train or read and watch every little bit of news, interview and presentation I went in to NMS with no expectations. As such I am still really enjoying it though I can see why it is such a marmite game.
As an aside the shotgun in quake 3 uses this - instead of handling all 11 pellets individually it just uses a pseudo random seed that the server and other clients work with to determine what pattern of impacts to use.
It's actually pretty fascinating stuff (subjective!). I've always been vaguely aware of how pseudo RNG works(how it's not truly random, even distributions and predictability etc) but never as applied to procedural generation.A good analogy of procedural generation is genetics - specifically DNA and how it codes
ps3ud0
I agree it makes perfect sense that they would do it this way in terms of efficiency in maintaining such a large system and giving the impression of randomness.
I was never really expecting multiplayer either tbh. Though, maybe Sean Murray said some things he shouldn't.
It's definitely an interesting game. I'm still happy I paid full price for it anyway.
*hastily does more research on procedural generation*
Associate
Lots of gamers are enjoying the NMS. I really can't be mad at Hello Games for delivering us this masterpiece. Especially now as I know they going to be supporting the game for a long time, so much stuff they want to add.
People would have probably been more forgiving if they'd have received straight answers to begin with, "no this isn't multiplayer, you can't meet your friends, it's single player only". He probably realised through the project that he had bitten off more than he could chew so obviously had to cut things from the project and maybe one of those things was the multiplayer element (cost and time issues as in no more funding and the desire to make some cash from the whole thing).
I feel like on the whole vagueness he was trying to maximise sales and maybe because you spawn into a massively large universe that he figured the chances of people ever meeting was very low. In hindsight it was probably naive to think people wouldn't try to meet up and when those people did and couldn't see each other, it kinda fuelled the fire.
He may also have realised the lack of single player content (lacking solid story element, big moments and sense of player achievement) which would have largely been forgiven had the game allowed you to play with your mates.
I've not played the game, just watched YouTube video commentaries and Reddit threads.
Soldato
Can someone confirm an annoying bug.
I got the Warp Drive Theta. It won't allow me to travel to blue star systems.
Is that to say you need Warp Drive Sigma and Tau as well? Seems ridiculous if so.
I got the Warp Drive Theta. It won't allow me to travel to blue star systems.
Is that to say you need Warp Drive Sigma and Tau as well? Seems ridiculous if so.
Soldato
Built Warp Drive Tau next to Theta. Can now enter blue systems. What a silly system.
Hello Games simply underestimated the levels to which the CoD generation immediately assume any game being developed must be tailored to their tastes, and completely ignored the times Hello Games repeatedly stated they are *not making a multiplayer game*.
If people feel they have been lied to then I'm afraid they have only their own stupidity to blame. As Sean Murray said before release "This is not a multiplayer game experience, so not go into it looking for one".
If people feel they have been lied to then I'm afraid they have only their own stupidity to blame. As Sean Murray said before release "This is not a multiplayer game experience, so not go into it looking for one".