North Face jackets, thoughts?

TripleT · 3 Nov 2012 at 21:21

Superficial said:
Superdry, like many brands are a victim of their own popularity. it's happened before and will happen again. that does not necessarily make them 'uncool' (whatever that means)

Popularity does not automatically beget a notion of undesirability which is exactly what you implied.

Apple is the best possible example.

You're exact quote was: "That fact that the brand is no so ubiquitous would surely make it less desirable?"

The answer is no - just because something sells well does not necessarily lead to undesirability. THAT is a complete contradiction - they would not sell well unless they were desired Dowie deal with it.

Exactly, most brands go through the curve. My MD started wearing Superdry, I stopped.

NF are a bit chav for me. Just ordered a nice Rab personally.

[FnG]magnolia · 3 Nov 2012 at 21:24

Superficial said:
by it's nature, superficial

Well played sir, well played indeed.

franco_22 · 3 Nov 2012 at 21:25

I don't like them because every body wears one. That and Berghause, I don't understand what this country's fascination with those 2 brands is, it doesn't even get that cold in here.

PhillyDee · 3 Nov 2012 at 21:26

franco_22 said:
I don't like them because every body wears one. That and Berghause, I don't understand what this country's fascination with those 2 brands is, it doesn't even get that cold in here.

Thats why you wear them outside.

Anyway, it was 3 degrees here this afternoon. If thats not cold enough to wear a coat, what is?

gigeorge · 3 Nov 2012 at 21:33

PhillyDee said:
Thats why you wear them outside.

Anyway, it was 3 degrees here this afternoon. If thats not cold enough to wear a coat, what is?

-20..

I dont really love the way good outdoor brands like Berghaus & the North face have become a mainstream trend item.. Still not as bad as what happened to bench - went from being a quite cool skating brand to mainstream fodder clobber . Bit like super dry. Purge!

dowie · 3 Nov 2012 at 21:35

gigeorge said:
-20..

I dont really love the way good outdoor brands like Berghaus & the North face have become a mainstream trend item.. Still not as bad as what happened to bench - went from being a quite cool skating brand to mainstream fodder clobber . Bit like super dry. Purge!

also interesting that some of the people involved in bench were also behind superdry - they've certainly done well out of it

Malevolence · 3 Nov 2012 at 21:37

I have a Canada Goose Expedition, one of those should keep you nice and warm on the commute.

TripleT · 3 Nov 2012 at 21:53

I do agree with gigeorge in a way, I'm not a fan of the massive coats they're way ott. The Rab I've ordered is a light breathable waterproof jacket.

^JP^ · 3 Nov 2012 at 21:59

What about a good winter weight leather jacket?
I have a Belstaff panther with a removable lining for when it gets really cold and I love it.
It is not massive or bulky, has belt to keep you extra snug, the leather is waterproof and I never see anyone else with one!

Superficial · 3 Nov 2012 at 22:00

dowie said:
Not in all cases but in this case it is a factor

Why? how do you know?

Why are you so sure that the current downward curve is not simply due to them not bringing out a good new product(s)?

or how about the larger notion of changing public trends? which is not the same a brand fatique.

dowie said:
Apple is rather different - like BMW in the car example its ubiquitous but also out of reach for some people. If you're on a budget its a bit hard to justify splashing out on a macbook or iphone when there are alternatives offering much better value. Also there is more to the products of those companies than just the brand whereas if you're mass producing t shirts and badly made jackets then brand is really all you have to offer.

Apple are around because of innovation and design fashion statements.

If brand fatique is so obvious and inevitable then why do some brands stand the test of time? You can't answer these questions Dowie because your point does not hold up to scrutiny.

ok how about Adidas? a brand that has been around for donkeys - if anything they are MORE popular and desirable now then they were - and why? I would put it down to the most logical option...INNOVATION. Same thing with Nike.

Addidas make new products that the current generation wants plain and simple.

I'm sorry but the idea that people stop buying a particular brand because lots of people are wearing that brand is true only of a small portion of the population. They are known as snobs.

dowie said:
Its not really a contradiction at all especially if the fact that something was new, different etc.. worn by celebs initially made them desirable... now that they've got stores on every high street and the brand is seen everywhere and sported by people from all walks of life it can quite easily become less desirable as some of the factors that made it desirable/popular in the first place are then lost. They didn't become desirable as a result of making quality clothing, they became desirable as a result of rather superficial factors.

Rather than just waffling about it though just take a look at supergroup's shareprice in 2011 compared to today...

in bold: That's fashion for you - that statement is irrelevant because it's true of some many things we buy. Superdry, by the way, make quite a few warm coats and jackets.

What does that proove? Once again why are you so positive that it's not just a simple lack of new offerings that is resulting in poor sales? Why are you now so absolutely convinced that it's brand fatique?

You don't have a shred of proof and i've given a few examples now of other brands that everyone buys, have been around for years and are everywhere.

GTRacer · 3 Nov 2012 at 22:01

I have a Mountain Hardwear jacket, I only wear it if it's really chucking down and freezing. Jackets like that are more practical than stylish really, never saw NF jackets as fashion statements.

franco_22 · 3 Nov 2012 at 22:02

Speaking of Apple, someone told me today they sell because of their "exclusivity", it kinda made me chuckle inside since I know more people with Apple products and Iphones these days than anything else.

You want to talk about exclusivity, try Linux

Superficial · 3 Nov 2012 at 22:03

[FnG]magnolia;23095473 said:
Well played sir, well played indeed.

lol yeah I get comments like that a lot.

My username was suposed to be ironic but then i usually go for girls with big knockers so go figure

dowie · 3 Nov 2012 at 22:10

Superficial said:
Apple are around because of innovation and design fashion statements.

yes - and they're not purely reliant on the brand

If brand fatique is to obvious and inevitable then why do some brands stand the test of time? You can't answer these questions Dowie because your point does not hold up to scrutiny.

straw man

Once again why are you so positive that it's not just a simple lack of new offerings that is resulting in poor sales? Why are you now so absolutely convinced that it's brand fatique?

I'm not absolutely convinced I'm putting it forward as being rather likely though. You've decided that its contradictory whereas it isn't really and its something that various analyst have already commented on.

http://www.drapersonline.com/blogs/...erdry-has-it-reached-its-peak/5036182.article

However it has not been a bed of roses for the public listed company and some suggest that the brand may have saturated the market making it less desirable.

Its not just me pointing out that this brand now being ubiquitous could make it less desirable.

Superficial · 3 Nov 2012 at 22:25

dowie said:
yes - and they're not purely reliant on the brand

straw man

Pathetic - and what about my other examples?

Face it - saying that brands invariably fail because they are seen everywhere is stupid - things are MUCH more complicated than that.

A brands popularity does not necessarily equal an inevitable failure of that brand.

me: "What? The fact that they are popular makes them less desirable? "
you "the fact they are everywhere would seem to no?"

I'm not absolutely convinced I'm putting it forward as being rather likely though. You've decided that its contradictory whereas it isn't really and its something that various analyst have already commented on..

your STATEMENT is what is unrealsitic Dowie and you know full well, considering i brought apple into this. that we have been talking about your statement about how popularity will netgatively affect sales in, at least, partially fashionable products in general. otherwise are you actually trying to tell me that you believe that your statement was only supposed to be applied to Superdry? lol

You know as well as i do that superdry could bring out a must have garment tomorrow and turn their fortunes around in the next quarter.

Desirability and popularity go hand in hand in a positive way extremely frequently and you know it.

dowie · 3 Nov 2012 at 22:36

Superficial said:
Pathetic - and what about my other examples?

Face it - saying that brands invariably fail because they are seen everywhere is stupid - things are MUCH more complicated than that.

A brands popularity does not necessarily equal an inevitable failure of that brand.

straw man again

your STATEMENT is what is unrealsitic Dowie and you know full well, considering i brought apple into this. that we have been talking about your statement about how popularity will netgatively affect sales in, at least, partially fashionable products in general. otherwise are you actually trying to tell me that you believe that your statement was only supposed to be applied to Superdry? lol

My statement was in regards to superdry yes... that is what we were talking about:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=23095116&postcount=23

They just make fairly basic clothes and are entirely reliant on brand image.

North Face makes mountaineering gear. Addidas and Nike make sportswear...

Superdry makes what looks like a mountaineering jacket, but isn't really and would be rather ineffective if used as one. They're entirely reliant on that brand which has been built up as a result of 'celebs' wearing it etc... now that every man and his dog is sporting a generic 'superdry' jacket/t-shirt it isn't really that hard to see how the brand can lose some of its previous desirability.

[FnG]magnolia · 3 Nov 2012 at 22:41

Are we really talking about Marketing like it means anything?

#duckandcover

Superficial · 3 Nov 2012 at 22:45

dowie said:
straw man again

Do you even know wehat a straw man is Dowie? lol

I am simply stating, with an example, that what you said, word for word, is stupid.

how am i misrepresenting you? lol I even quoted you ffs.

My statement was in regards to superdry yes... that is what we were talking about:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=23095116&postcount=23

They just make fairly basic clothes and are entirely reliant on brand image.

North Face makes mountaineering gear. Addidas and Nike make sportswear...

Superdry makes what looks like a mountaineering jacket, but isn't really and would be rather ineffective if used as one. They're entirely reliant on that brand which has been built up as a result of 'celebs' wearing it etc... now that every man and his dog is sporting a generic 'superdry' jacket/t-shirt it isn't really that hard to see how the brand can lose some of its previous desirability.

I'll quote from that link:

dowie said:
That fact that the brand is no so ubiquitous would surely make it less desirable?

Anyway, labels aside, at least a north face jacket will have some practical use too.

And for a different recommendation get a RAB jacket.

So let's get this straight - you're trying to tell me that even though YOU brought up ford as an example to make your point, we have discussed Apple and i brought up adidas and Nike. You are saying that your statement can only, securely apply to Superdry? even though your negative comments about superdry could easily be translated to any number of brands including, by the way, the North Face? (I would love to see you try and go mountaineering in one of the their hight street jackets lol)

dowie · 3 Nov 2012 at 22:49

Superficial said:
Do you even know wehat a straw man is Dowie? lol

well this is one example:

Face it - saying that brands invariably fail because they are seen everywhere is stupid

which isn't the argument I'm making but rather your misrepresentation of it

So let's get this straight - you're trying to tell me that even though YOU brought up ford as an example to make your point,

no I brought up ford to contradict a different point that you made re: popularity and desirability

we have discussed Apple and i brought up adidas and Nike. You are saying that your statement can only, securely apply to Superdry?

no I'm saying that my statement was in reference to superdry

even though your negative comments about superdry could easily be translated to any number of brands including, by the way, the North Face?

not really, they make outdoors clothing and didn't become popular as a result of 'celebs' etc.. sporting their gear

(I would love to see you try and go mountaineering in one of the their hight street jackets lol)

they do make mountaineering jackets by the way....

Kennysevenfold · 3 Nov 2012 at 22:51

North face?

Jeez take me back to my school days!

Do not buy one!