Nurse arrested for murdering babies

Bruised ears?! I've only seen them in rugby injuries and someone who has been beaten about the head.
Add that in to the rest and surely every alarm bell going should be ringing.

I don't know this case but it wasn't just ignored. They had a child protection meeting and a strat meeting. Without knowing the full story it's really hard to know why they weren't more aggressive.

The RCPCH systematic review states ear bruises are rarely seen in non-abused children but not never. Social Care and Police are very black and white. They want a Paediatrician to say "This is abuse" not "This is likely abuse". Unless it's witnessed there are plenty of cases that are likely or maybe and thresholds for removal are staggeringly high with Social Care.
 
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Bruised ears?! I've only seen them in rugby injuries and someone who has been beaten about the head.
Add that in to the rest and surely every alarm bell going should be ringing.

I'm not a clinical expert and the child didn't have bruised ears in my recent case.

Last year I had a case where the child had 55gb of Xray Images, compare that to a normal 300 meg to 5gb for a patient and it was huge.
Not sure what happened to that case.
 
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I don't know this case but it wasn't just ignored. They had a child protection meeting and a strat meeting. Without knowing the full story it's really hard to know why they weren't more aggressive.

The RCPCH systematic review states ear bruises are rarely seen in non-abused children but not never. Social Care and Police are very black and white. They want a Paediatrician to say "This is abuse" not "This is likely abuse". Unless it's witnessed there are plenty of cases that are likely or maybe and thresholds for removal are staggeringly high with Social Care.

I find the whole situation absolutely crazy. My wife's a teacher and if there's the slightest of slight concerns that it may be child abuse then social services and the police HAVE to be contacted. Any failure to act is dismissal.
 
I can't believe how long the trial has been. I'd hope the jurors are excused ever having to do service again afterwards.

This case has personal connections for me. Both my girls were born at the Countess of Chester maternity unit, but I'm fairly sure before Lucy Letby would have been a nurse there (they're 15 and 18). I was also a classmate of one of the witnesses, Dr Ravi Jayaram.

Honestly, don't know what to think about the case. Its awful if true, but innocent until proven guilty.
 
I can't believe how long the trial has been. I'd hope the jurors are excused ever having to do service again afterwards.

This case has personal connections for me. Both my girls were born at the Countess of Chester maternity unit, but I'm fairly sure before Lucy Letby would have been a nurse there (they're 15 and 18). I was also a classmate of one of the witnesses, Dr Ravi Jayaram.

Honestly, don't know what to think about the case. Its awful if true, but innocent until proven guilty.

I think there are some cases that are very clear, but from what I have seen, this is not one of them. I wouldn't trust a jury either. Cases this important should be tried by magistrates, really. People who know the law.
I remember I was in a jury many years ago and some old biddy insisted the man was guilty because his eyes were too close together. :confused:
 
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For some time I was thinking “hmm I wonder what they have on this person that has made them pursue this - it’s so hard to prove surely? What’s the deal?”

Then this came out a couple of months ago, which was pretty shocking tbh.


Yikes. Sounds like a very disturbed and damaged person to be writing stuff like that :(

The post it note in the article gives me the heebie jeebies.
 
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I think there are some cases that are very clear, but from what I have seen, this is not one of them. I wouldn't trust a jury either. Cases this important should be tried by magistrates, really. People who know the law.
I remember I was in a jury many years ago and some old biddy insisted the man was guilty because his eyes were too close together. :confused:

I've followed most of the case evidence and for me it was pretty obvious she'd done it quite early on. You have her own written admission that she killed them in a form of written nots. You have evidence that they died from either insulin or air injections or other forms of abuse while she was on duty for all of them. You had her facebook stalking the victims parents on the anniversary of one of the deaths. There was one of the babies that recovered after been taken out of her care and another time a nurse interrupted her looking very suspicious around an injured baby IIRC. There are other things too that slip my mind.

If she gets off it will be an absolute travesty.
 
Yikes. Sounds like a very disturbed and damaged person to be writing stuff like that :(
The post it note in the article gives me the heebie jeebies.
The notes look weird...
The one pictured in that article looks more like a Hollywood prop from a teen horror flick. Seemingly two or three separate sets of handwriting, with certain trigger words all written in very precise places right where they'd be eye-catching in a brief camera shot.

ISTR there was some question over whether the nurse was being made a scapegoat for hospital management incompetencies, or something? Insufficient staff covering the wards?
 
Something it's always worth noting with confessions, is that by themselves they're not great evidence as has been shown by numerous unsafe convictions, people can and do blame themselves for things that happen outside of their control and question if they were good enough or if they made some mistake that resulted in a death (even when there is a full investigation that shows they did everything right).

You tend to see it a lot after accidents, or where say a child has died and the parent/caregiver is questioning themselves, and there have been a large number of (mainly) young women who have ended up in jail after a "confession" that was basically misplaced guilt, and going back quite a few murder cases where it turned out the confession was obtained under very unreliable circumstance (hence you don't rely on it alone)..

I don't know what to think of this one, but I can quite see how someone might be innocent but feel incredibly guilty and end up blaming themselves if they had a number of children die in their care, even if they did nothing wrong, and there is a part of me that does wonder if perhaps there is some element of a hospital failing to have adequate care resulting in excess deaths and blaming someone for it.
 
Something it's always worth noting with confessions, is that by themselves they're not great evidence as has been shown by numerous unsafe convictions, people can and do blame themselves for things that happen outside of their control and question if they were good enough or if they made some mistake that resulted in a death (even when there is a full investigation that shows they did everything right).

I remember a bloke saying to me he knew how Michael Jackson felt and admitted to sex with kids.
Before I hit him I rang a mate up who said if I talked to him long enough he would admit every major criminal event around the World.
Sadly he hung himself.
 
I've followed most of the case evidence and for me it was pretty obvious she'd done it quite early on. You have her own written admission that she killed them in a form of written nots. You have evidence that they died from either insulin or air injections or other forms of abuse while she was on duty for all of them. You had her facebook stalking the victims parents on the anniversary of one of the deaths. There was one of the babies that recovered after been taken out of her care and another time a nurse interrupted her looking very suspicious around an injured baby IIRC. There are other things too that slip my mind.

If she gets off it will be an absolute travesty.

Without hearing all the details, then, there is little direct evidence. Most of it is "she happened to be there at the time". She was never caught red-handed, so to speak.

That's enough for a jury, but it probably wouldn't be enough for a magistrate. So, with a jury, it will come down to how convincing her personality comes over in court. If the jury is convinced by it, it will be innocent, if they aren't then she is going down.

The most damming evidence is the notes. I would like to see a psychiatrist review those. They could turn out to be the deciding factor in this.

.. And we shouldn't judge anything, we aren't there. We are just getting second hand news from the media.
 
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Something it's always worth noting with confessions, is that by themselves they're not great evidence as has been shown by numerous unsafe convictions, people can and do blame themselves for things that happen outside of their control and question if they were good enough or if they made some mistake that resulted in a death (even when there is a full investigation that shows they did everything right).

You tend to see it a lot after accidents, or where say a child has died and the parent/caregiver is questioning themselves, and there have been a large number of (mainly) young women who have ended up in jail after a "confession" that was basically misplaced guilt, and going back quite a few murder cases where it turned out the confession was obtained under very unreliable circumstance (hence you don't rely on it alone)..

I don't know what to think of this one, but I can quite see how someone might be innocent but feel incredibly guilty and end up blaming themselves if they had a number of children die in their care, even if they did nothing wrong, and there is a part of me that does wonder if perhaps there is some element of a hospital failing to have adequate care resulting in excess deaths and blaming someone for it.

Yes I agree. You didn’t aim the above specifically at me but my reference in respect of the post-it note was not to necessarily suggest that she 100% actually did it… it was more a comment on the terrible state of mind that this person must be in, regardless of whether she did it or not.

Although, obviously it doesn’t look great either and I expect that it’s a key piece of evidence for the prosecution.
 
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