Nurse arrested for murdering babies

Dis86 said:
The kids weren't healthy, that's why they were in her care in the first place. They were very unwell children.
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Deaths on NICU are uncommon and it was the rise in deaths that triggered the initial concerns, especially given Countess of Chester was a small Level 2 NICU at the time iirc. Most babies are very stable.
 
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SexyGreyFox said:
I nearly necro'd this a month ago but I've waited for someone else to do it.
Working in a Trust Legal Department we've had meetings on this case and I've been 100% positive Letby did it.
A month ago the CH5 broadcast a programme called Lucy Letby - Did She Really Do it? - https://www.channel5.com/show/lucy-letby-did-she-really-do-it
I sat down with the wife and was gobsmacked after it finished.
The following day I was talking to my boss the Trust Lawyer who had also seen it and we were both shrugging our shoulders saying she deserves a new trial with expert witnesses.
It's astonishing that not one expert witness spoke for her but now they're coming out of the woodwork.
Every Trust is now witnessing Nurses either leaving or asking for transfers out of NICU because of this.

After being 100% Letby did it I'm now in the camp of a retrial done properly.
I urge everybody to watch the CH5 documentary.
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That's quite some turn round, since you sepnt a lot of time ITT giving people **** who dared to slightly question your 100% stance that she was guilty
 
Thekwango said:
You sure about that? Do healthy but underweight premature babies get cared for in NICU
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I guess its all semantics, I'm coming at it from a purely clinical point of view, not all premature babies require ICU, obviously there are many factors to the decision, but the quick answer is any premature baby admitted to ICU would really not be considered 'healthy' by definition.. Only around (it does vary) ~30% of premature babies are admitted to ICUs, they are at significant risk, and by that I mean conservatively (despite precautionary admittance cases) the mortality rates are 10 times that of the general neo-natal population.

I share the desire to get to the bottom of things, and find it hard to accept the remote possibility of Letsby being innocent but since I work with clinical teams who use devices I developed on neo-natal patients that are in ICUs it's been drummed in to me that the population of patients in ICUs is very much an a hugely elevated risk level to start with..
 
Demon said:
I guess its all semantics, I'm coming at it from a purely clinical point of view, not all premature babies require ICU, obviously there are many factors to the decision, but the quick answer is any premature baby admitted to ICU would really not be considered 'healthy' by definition.. Only around (it does vary) ~30% of premature babies are admitted to ICUs, they are at significant risk, and by that I mean conservatively (despite precautionary admittance cases) the mortality rates are 10 times that of the general neo-natal population.

I share the desire to get to the bottom of things, and find it hard to accept the remote possibility of Letsby being innocent but since I work with clinical teams who use devices I developed on neo-natal patients that are in ICUs it's been drummed in to me that the population of patients in ICUs is very much an a hugely elevated risk level to start with..
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Whilst the risks are obviously higher for babies on NICU compared to term and near term babies deaths are very rare on a level 2 NICU. I'm a level 2 NICU consultant in a substantially busier NICU than CoC and we might have 1 or 2 deaths on the unit a year at most. Deaths usually occur either at birth or in babies that are transferred out as they deteriorate, which is why the deaths at CoC on their NICU were so odd.

Edit - just looked, just over 1 a year on average.
 
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Minstadave said:
Whilst the risks are obviously higher for babies on NICU compared to term and near term babies deaths are very rare on a level 2 NICU. I'm a level 2 NICU consultant in a substantially busier NICU than CoC and we might have 1 or 2 deaths on the unit a year.
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it almost like some people think that because a baby is in NICU that it must be on deaths door, rather than it being (in some cases) a preventative measure to ensure the child remains healthy.
 
diamount said:
All the babies dying while she was on shift (being injected with insulin, oxygen etc) her confessing to the crimes on in her diary. She's guilty - 100%.
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From what I read from the bbc articles https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgdxq2l7kvo and https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c39k44n8j1mo , the evidence provided at the trial did not include a number of baby deaths where Letby was not on shift. There were other issues that concerned the experts too, ahead of the inquiry starting.
 
Thekwango said:
it almost like some people think that because a baby is in NICU that it must be on deaths door, rather than it being (in some cases) a preventative measure to ensure the child remains healthy.
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The majority of babies in a level 2 unit are just there to be kept warm and have NG tube feeds. The really sick ones get transferred to the regional level 3 units. Even if I include deaths of those babies it's about 3 a year. A run of deaths on a level 2 NICU is a major red flag.
 
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Minstadave said:
Deaths on NICU are uncommon and it was the rise in deaths that triggered the initial concerns, especially given Countess of Chester was a small Level 2 NICU at the time iirc. Most babies are very stable.
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But there were also a number of deaths when she wasn't on shift.
You're right when you say it's the rise that triggered concerns but have abnormal numbers of deaths not occurred before due to bad management practices, general lack of care and other issues? I'm sure many staff on wards where things such as that have happened would also blame themselves even though they weren't to blame.
 
Dis86 said:
But there were also a number of deaths when she wasn't on shift.
You're right when you say it's the rise that triggered concerns but have abnormal numbers of deaths not occurred before due to bad management practices, general lack of care and other issues? I'm sure many staff on wards where things such as that have happened would also blame themselves even though they weren't to blame.
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I don't know any if the specifics of the case so can't get into the details. There are expected deaths in neonates where you can write off any NICU involvement being a factor (severe birth injury, lethal genetic abnormalities, extreme prematurity) so there may be deaths in their service that were not considered as part of the investigation.
 
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