NVIDIA 4000 Series

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

6 Royal Gala apples should be £1.50 from M&S like they were a couple of years ago, they are now £3.

Home energy x3......gfx cards are in line with everything else. Even 2nd hand stuff costs more than it did a couple of years ago.

If you don't need want it, then like anything, just don't buy it. NV & AMD aren't reading your posts like you'd hope and will drop the prices. Only when the impending recession fully lands will prices come down, and relatively the £££ will be the same as we'll all have less buying power. No company or business cares about those that can't afford it. There's always the cheap end of the range.

Only people needing these cards are those with high res & refresh rate panels to run. Easy way to make PC gaming cheap is to cut your cloth and run a resolution you want to afford. Or, get a console for <£500 that has 16GB of RAM (even though it only accesses 10-12 directly for gfx).

I also got some nice British Gala apples from Sainsburys for 65p two days ago. Also our large local M and S frequently has Apple's on offer - they also do very large packs of nice Oranges for just over £2,which makes them cheaper than Sainsburys and our local Asda.

That is because these companies are willing to cut margins - something all your "expert" analysis ignores. Consumers don't need to prop up corporate margins.

But then I managed to get all my PC components(all current generation at the time) for RRP or less than RRP during the pandemic. People like you might have been "forced" to pay above RRP.

Not my fault you haven't a clue how to shop around,and seem to want to defend large tech companies who don't give a damn about you.

I can get every PC part outside dGPUs cheaper than last year. Even prebuilt desktops and laptops are cheaper.

Nvidia is at higher margins than Apple,so meh nobody cares about their excuses. Guess what happened to Apple sales:

Apple's Mac shipments fall more than 40%, worse than major rivals

The year-over-year fall is the worst performance of the top five PC manufacturers and comes amid fears of a recession and weakened consumer demand, IDC said.

www.cnbc.com

• Apple Mac shipments fell 40.5% in the first quarter of 2023, compared with the same time the prior year, market intelligence provider IDC said.
• Apple’s worldwide PC market share dropped between the first quarter of 2022 and the first quarter of 2023, from 8.6% to 7.2%, according to IDC data.

Gartner Says Worldwide PC Shipments Declined 30% in First Quarter of 2023

Worldwide PC shipments totaled 55.2 million units in the first quarter of 2023, a 30% decrease from the first quarter of 2022, according to preliminary results by Gartner, Inc.

www.gartner.com

Gartner Says Worldwide PC Shipments Declined 30% in First Quarter of 2023​

​

Nvidia inventory has doubled to $5.2 billion:

Nvidia Stock: Inventory Glut And Revenue Decline (NASDAQ:NVDA)

Nvidia's Q4 revenue decreased by 21%, significantly impacted by its gaming market platform which saw a YoY decrease in revenues. Read my thoughts on NVDA stock here.

seekingalpha.com

Consumer dGPU revenue has collapsed by 46% YoY.

GPU sales have collapsed to their lowest in over 20 years:

Discrete GPU Sales Plummet to Historic Lows

The days of record profits quarter-after-quarter during the pandemic are officially over as GPU shipments have fallen off a cliff.

www.extremetech.com

People all over the internet are calling out the overpriced dGPUs including most reviewers.

Only PCMR on tech forums make excuses - in the realworld nobody gives two hoots about "company costs" - we don't cut our cloth according to what companies think we cut.

If that is the case maybe you would have loved the USSR,where people had to be forced to pay high prices for subpar goods and wait for years.

In a free market,the consumer in the end will determine prices. So don't try and blame the consumer like an anti-consumerist.

STill need to pay for the R&D for the pipeline stuff, they didnt send all the R&D people home, they all have inflation, pretty sure the whole world is suffering inflation. CAn only kick the can so far down the road since 2008, we have to pay for QE, pandemic etc somehow. The poor will pay most.

At the end of the day, saying other countries and industries etc is futile, we are talking UK, Europe if you like (all suffering high inflation) and we are talking GPU industry. Pointless trying to bring other industries into it to put the blame back on solely profiteering with GPU's.

Mining boom and scalping brought high GPU prices. SHareholders will be - nope - we'll be having that profit from now on. If they were scalpable and x3 profits could be made from a £650 card - aint no shareholder or business that wont adjust their prices to stop that.

Everyone moaned they couldnt get one, many were jumping up and down when retailers put a perceived extra £100 on top of 3080's before it went mad. Same people moaning that AIB's weren't the same as FE. Got worse as cards were going to £2k when mining took over.

Now we have cards available as they are highly priced to make them non scalpable - people still moaning.

We've been as rich as we are going to be for a good long while. Cheap credit, interest rates lowest in 150 years, for a good 10 years. LARGE US banks failing now. Unfortunately, it's only going to get worse - much worse. Trouble withg young people they think that it is the norm - well, wait for the revist of 70's inflation. Look at Argentina if you want to see inflation, that's at 100% I think I saw.

This sounds la!la!la! my favourite tech companies want to charge more,and as a loyal fan they can do no wrong,and must defend them to the end. Weirdly lots of other PC parts have dropped in price. The same as lots of other consumer products!

Thats right! Lower sales means they cut prices!

I am not a yank - as a Brit I don't exist to prop up large US companies,which get tax breaks and billions in aid from the US taxpayer. Nobody cares apart from PCMR simps about their costs. Its of no relevance to anyone.

Also,if the world is ending then why do you think tech companies have the entitlement to maintain their margins? They don't. They can get their prices and cut their coat according to their cloth.

None of us exist as charities to prop up the companies.

Inflation is relative to a country/industry and there is also deflation on products which is only happening on day to day products (not to mention things like RAM, storage), just that people don't focus much on it...

Same goes with GPUs and, most importantly, we don't know how or IF the BOM of the cards was affected (which shouldn't be that significant anyway). R&D was already done previously and other costs would also go down.

Because they are desperate to defend their companies at any cost:

Apple triggers 'religious' reaction in fans' brains, report says

Next time Grandma asks why you're going to the mall on Sunday morning instead of church, tell her you're going to Apple Chapel.

edition.cnn.com

You had the same characters do the same when Nvidia pushed Turing V1. Within a year Nvidia relaunched it all. The defenders went quiet.

Everytime these companies jack up prices the weak willed simps,just roll out a 100 reasons why it NEEDS to happen. Now wait for the AI excuse or some other nonsense to turn up.

But,they never ask why don't they cut their margins? Its always them blaming the consumer.

That's a bit debatable. On one hand, depends how you see these cards, on what resolution they should be running at. For instance, 4070 is more like a 1440p card where it does fine natively. 4080 also does decently at 4k. RT will be, for obvious reasons, a problem without upscaling unless playing at lower resolutions.
On the other hand, if games are more demanding, is not that easy to hit the 60fps spot. Case in point, Cyberpunk at 4k even in rasterization is a tough nut to crack where you need a 4090 to be comfortably above 60

Just like back when Crysis still had something to say about video cards

It really isn't when they want to push RT,and do so with limited VRAM. If they need to use upscaling in a game from 2020,then what happens when something more intensive comes out.

Remember,if the RTX4080 was priced the same as the RTX3080/RTX3080TI and the RX7900XTX had replaced the RX6800XT,it would be a different matter.

But for the price they are meh.

 

[Calin Banc]

STill need to pay for the R&D for the pipeline stuff, they didnt send all the R&D people home, they all have inflation, pretty sure the whole world is suffering inflation. CAn only kick the can so far down the road since 2008, we have to pay for QE, pandemic etc somehow. The poor will pay most.

At the end of the day, saying other countries and industries etc is futile, we are talking UK, Europe if you like (all suffering high inflation) and we are talking GPU industry. Pointless trying to bring other industries into it to put the blame back on solely profiteering with GPU's.

Mining boom and scalping brought high GPU prices. SHareholders will be - nope - we'll be having that profit from now on. If they were scalpable and x3 profits could be made from a £650 card - aint no shareholder or business that wont adjust their prices to stop that.

Everyone moaned they couldnt get one, many were jumping up and down when retailers put a perceived extra £100 on top of 3080's before it went mad. Same people moaning that AIB's weren't the same as FE. Got worse as cards were going to £2k when mining took over.

Now we have cards available as they are highly priced to make them non scalpable - people still moaning.

We've been as rich as we are going to be for a good long while. Cheap credit, interest rates lowest in 150 years, for a good 10 years. LARGE US banks failing now. Unfortunately, it's only going to get worse - much worse. Trouble withg young people they think that it is the norm - well, wait for the revist of 70's inflation. Look at Argentina if you want to see inflation, that's at 100% I think I saw.

We don't know if people wages have been (or not) adjusted to inflation, which anyways can vary per country.
You've brought up apples and energy (so other industries) into discussion. I'm in Europe (eastern Europe), fuel is about 1.3 euro/liter. How much is it in Uk? Having a quick look online is higher, at 1,46 / 1.58 pounds per liter. Your inflation is around 10.1%, ours around 14,53%. See how that inflation excuse doesn't work? With your lower inflation and you're still paying more. Just look overall in Europe how much it varies - https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/...the-cheapest-and-most-expensive-electricity-a

GPUs aren't selling now. They can ask whatever price they want, doesn't mean will sell. They've only sold more as money printing machines (aka crypto bubble). Oh, and double increasing the price (1st by marketing a lower tier card to a high tier card then by adding price on top of that), goes waaaaay above the inflationary excuse. Way, way more.

It really isn't when they want to push RT,and do so with limited VRAM. If they need to use upscaling in a game from 2020,then what happens when something more intensive comes out.

Remember,if the RTX4080 was priced the same as the RTX3080/RTX3080TI and the RX7900XTX had replaced the RX6800XT,it would be a different matter.

vRAM will be fixed, I think. Cards don't have the power to run anyway, even without vRAM issues. How much vRAM that 7970 should have had to run Crysis at 60fps in 1440p, even 100GB wouldn't help. RT, where properly and intensively used is the Crysis of our days...

 

[Woodsta888]

@CAT-THE-FIFTH

I think you've mis-understood me.

We all want cheaper. And yes I could shop around. But I'm talking apples - to apples comparison (excuse the pun). Same product and impacts of inflation and maybe some profiteering. Notsaying some of it isn't, energy and fuels especially. Comapny profitability is of course the marker, but dGPU's for NV are only a very small part of the company.

If we take your model of shopping around for GPU's between different manufacturers, then good luck pal. I don't shop & M&S because I can, it's my nearest and doesn't involve me getting in the car.
I'm not making excuses for anyone or defending anyone. Just saying EVERYTHING has gone up.

I just sold my AUDI A6 for more than I paid for it 5 years ago with double the miles on it.

I'm not defending anyone, but it's not pure profiteering like you make it out to be. Who, including myself doesn't want everything cheaper?

Only one going on and on is you and are putting it down to 100% profiteering. I was just trying to put some perspective to your many posts of hate. I dont like it either, I'm not brand loyal, I just buy for my needs, weigh up if I can afford something that I spend a lot of time using. I game 5 of 7 eves, usage per hr is affordable for me.

Apologies for playing devils advocate and trying to add some perspective, you are rather consumed by your own dGPU hate. As a self confessed ultra low end epeen, does make me wonder why you are so bothered about it as I don't think you'd actually buy the high end even if it was cheaper.

The only reason folk are saying they want them now at £800 is because they dont want to pay £1600. But if prices had stayed as you want them, bet no one would be buying the high end at £800. Only as they are at £1600 people think £800 is a bargain! They will be £800 when the nextgen comes out - 2nd hand.

 

[Woodsta888]

We don't know if people wages have been (or not) adjusted to inflation, which anyways can vary per country.
You've brought up apples and energy (so other industries) into discussion. I'm in Europe (eastern Europe), fuel is about 1.3 euro/liter. How much is it in Uk? Having a quick look online is higher, at 1,46 / 1.58 pounds per liter. Your inflation is around 10.1%, ours around 14,53%. See how that inflation excuse doesn't work? With your lower inflation and you're still paying more. Just look overall in Europe how much it varies - https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/...the-cheapest-and-most-expensive-electricity-a

GPUs aren't selling now. They can ask whatever price they want, doesn't mean will sell. They've only sold more as money printing machines (aka crypto bubble). Oh, and double increasing the price (1st by marketing a lower tier card to a high tier card then by adding price on top of that), goes waaaaay above the inflationary excuse. Way, way more.




vRAM will be fixed, I think. Cards don't have the power to run anyway, even without vRAM issues. How much vRAM that 7970 should have had to run Crysis at 60fps in 1440p, even 100GB wouldn't help. RT, where properly and intensively used is the Crysis of our days...

Not all countries tackle inflation the same way. So your inflation is higher, so your fuel was cheaper in the first place. We are an island and it's more expensive to get fuel to us. As our country has nothing left tehn everything is more expensive. The UK own nothing of our infrastructure. All owned buy everyone else. Our railways are so expensive as we subsidise the cheap rail for the countries that own it.

We dont all get our stuff from the same place - we produce near as makes no difference our own electricity and all the companies are owned by companies in other countries. Not defending our country isnt ruined, but inflation and how goverments tackle it isnt the same.

Visualized: Real Interest Rates by Country

What countries have the highest real interest rates? We look at 40 economies to analyze nominal and real rates after projected inflation.

www.visualcapitalist.com

 

[gpuerrilla]

Lets remember, steam hardware survey as I posted - adjusted (incorrect figures last month, nvidia defenders aping in who are now silent). AMD outselling nvidia units. Just in case anyone glossed over that.

 

[Calin Banc]

Not all countries tackle inflation the same way. So your inflation is higher, so your fuel was cheaper in the first place. We are an island and it's more expensive to get fuel to us. As our country has nothing left tehn everything is more expensive. The UK own nothing of our infrastructure. All owned buy everyone else. Our railways are so expensive as we subsidise the cheap rail for the countries that own it.

We dont all get our stuff from the same place - we produce near as makes no difference our own electricity and all the companies are owned by companies in other countries. Not defending our country isnt ruined, but inflation and how goverments tackle it isnt the same.

Visualized: Real Interest Rates by Country

What countries have the highest real interest rates? We look at 40 economies to analyze nominal and real rates after projected inflation.

www.visualcapitalist.com

Look at inflation in China. It didn't even hit 3% all this time. These companies are making all the stuff in that part of the world where prices are low. Is not like they're important components to Europe, then ship them back for assembly and once more ship them to Europe.

Prices went up not due to natural inflation (well, at some maybe), but because of greed, profiteering aka greedflation. At some point they will also go down as people tighten their spending.

China: monthly inflation rate 2024 | Statista

In July 2024, the monthly inflation rate in China ranged at 0.5 percent compared to the same month in the previous year.

www.statista.com

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

We don't know if people wages have been (or not) adjusted to inflation, which anyways can vary per country.
You've brought up apples and energy (so other industries) into discussion. I'm in Europe (eastern Europe), fuel is about 1.3 euro/liter. How much is it in Uk? Having a quick look online is higher, at 1,46 / 1.58 pounds per liter. Your inflation is around 10.1%, ours around 14,53%. See how that inflation excuse doesn't work? With your lower inflation and you're still paying more. Just look overall in Europe how much it varies - https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/...the-cheapest-and-most-expensive-electricity-a

GPUs aren't selling now. They can ask whatever price they want, doesn't mean will sell. They've only sold more as money printing machines (aka crypto bubble). Oh, and double increasing the price (1st by marketing a lower tier card to a high tier card then by adding price on top of that), goes waaaaay above the inflationary excuse. Way, way more.

The UK also has had Brexit issues(sorry if I mentioned it,don't want to offend anyone here),which made trading with the EU more costly. Also the UK despite producing half its own gas,privatised it all so we end up having worse energy prices than countries which don't have any gas. This is why UK inflation is worse than many other countries.

Also,have you noticed everytime dGPUs get jacked up in price,there is XYZ reasons. In this case,what about the obvious one? Lots of industries are cutting marhg

vRAM will be fixed, I think. Cards don't have the power to run anyway, even without vRAM issues. How much vRAM that 7970 should have had to run Crysis at 60fps in 1440p, even 100GB wouldn't help. RT, where properly and intensively used is the Crysis of our days...

My issue is if VRAM is so cheap,it seems like built in obsolescene on purpose.

@CAT-THE-FIFTH

I think you've mis-understood me.

We all want cheaper. And yes I could shop around. But I'm talking apples - to apples comparison (excuse the pun). Same product and impacts of inflation and maybe some profiteering. Notsaying some of it isn't, energy and fuels especially. Comapny profitability is of course the marker, but dGPU's for NV are only a very small part of the company.

If we take your model of shopping around for GPU's between different manufacturers, then good luck pal. I don't shop & M&S because I can, it's my nearest and doesn't involve me getting in the car.
I'm not making excuses for anyone or defending anyone. Just saying EVERYTHING has gone up.

I just sold my AUDI A6 for more than I paid for it 5 years ago with double the miles on it.

I'm not defending anyone, but it's not pure profiteering like you make it out to be. Who, including myself doesn't want everything cheaper?

Only one going on and on is you and are putting it down to 100% profiteering. I was just trying to put some perspective to your many posts of hate. I dont like it either, I'm not brand loyal, I just buy for my needs, weigh up if I can afford something that I spend a lot of time using. I game 5 of 7 eves, usage per hr is affordable for me.

Apologies for playing devils advocate and trying to add some perspective, you are rather consumed by your own dGPU hate. As a self confessed ultra low end epeen, does make me wonder why you are so bothered about it as I don't think you'd actually buy the high end even if it was cheaper.

The only reason folk are saying they want them now at £800 is because they dont want to pay £1600. But if prices had stayed as you want them, bet no one would be buying the high end at £800. Only as they are at £1600 people think £800 is a bargain! They will be £800 when the nextgen comes out - 2nd hand.

Because its affecting even the normal tiers,so we get upsold junk. How is an RTX4060TI 8GB acceptable in 2023 at £400~£450ish.Now think what we have say in 2024 or 2025.

The shrinkflation in mainstream dGPUs has been happening even before the Pandemic,despite prices rises. It seems to track the profit margins of these companies. The fact we are talking about whether 12GB of VRAM being a deal,is terrible when VRAM has stayed stagnant for the last 7 years.

Yet,everything else(phones,tablets,etc) RAM has gone down a lot in the same period. PCMR keeps rationalising it,like they rationalising quad cores for years. Its abnormal if you just look outside our niche.

Plus its been shown time and time again,the cost of almost every part has dropped since the pandemic in 2020.

You have to also remember that you are talking about EU and US inflation and EU inflation is also being driven by higher oil/gas/fertiliser prices. This is because we sanctioned Russia and bought from more expensive secondary sources. But even then there has been profiteering from Big Oil as when the prices have dropped they have been slow in reducing prices.

Most of the stuff we buy is also made in China. China is buying loads of cheap oil,etc from Russia,etc. Chinese inflation is actually apparently too low.

People forgot the 2020 dGPUs were priced with Pandemic shortages and prices increases in mind. The Pandemic started nearly nine months before. The big excuse for dGPUs being expensive was.....GDDR6 pricing. Yet GDDR6 pricing has collapsed as has all RAM. Samsung and Micron financials are not good.

As China opened up,component costs have gone down a lot. In other industries(which use the same parts),they are not suddenly reporting prices have gone up(the opposite). Think @gpuerrilla posted a link. The only thing is the die,which is made on a more expensive node.

But Samsung yields on 8NM were dire. They had no experience of large die products(only made phone chips before). So that 400MM2 GA104 was probably pricier than people think.

But Nvidia is replacing a 400MM2 die with a salvaged 300MM2 die,and a 628MM2 die with a 300MM2 one.

The AD104 is literally a drop in replacement for the GA106. It uses RTX3060 class components. The RTX3060 12GB was a $330. Nvidia sells it profitably for nearly £300.

Nvidia has literally taken the RTX3060 12GB replacement in hardware and sold it as the RTX4070TI 12GB at £800. This has nothing to do with inflation or any actual cost increases. Its nothing to do with hating GPUs,but the fact its a blatant cash grab. If costs have truly gone up why is the RTX4090 then not over £2000.....? Why have the lower end dGPUs been jacked up so much?

Remember,Nvidia and AMD pay less than the published price for wafers. So even if you doubled actual GPU costs,it won't make up for the disparity in pricing.

Nvidia overproduced dGPUs,then probably yet again understated how much mining was responsible for their consumer sales. So instead of being honest about it,are trying to spin it was all gamers buying it. But if gamers were responsible,then they can't be seen to cut pricing or margins,because it would indicate it was miners. Plus they possibly can't cut margins like lots of their own suppliers couldn't they. They did this with Turing V1.

AMD and Intel already have had to cut CPU prices,which are their bread and butter. They made losses. Nobody is defending them? I have no sympathy for Nvidia - they can cut prices and still make decent money too(not losses). These tech companies can't expect the pandemic/mining bonanza to last forever. You even mentioned cheap credit due to money printing might be a thing of the past. They have jacked up prices over the last 10 years due to this and people borrowing too much to fund purchases. They have gotten too used to debt powered record margins.
I told people this wouldn't last years ago(very few believed me).

The tech industry dined on this for over a decade - now its time they also tightened their coats.

 

[Woodsta888]

Look at inflation in China. It didn't even hit 3% all this time. These companies are making all the stuff in that part of the world where prices are low. Is not like they're important components to Europe, then ship them back for assembly and once more ship them to Europe.

Prices went up not due to natural inflation (well, at some maybe), but because of greed, profiteering aka greedflation. At some point they will also go down as people tighten their spending.

China: monthly inflation rate 2024 | Statista

In July 2024, the monthly inflation rate in China ranged at 0.5 percent compared to the same month in the previous year.

www.statista.com

The prices are low becuase people earn FA. That'll be why they all live in a box, and families have mortgages for properties that span generations and multiple generations live in the same house.

99% of the worlds base electronics are manufactured in China.

I yeild, if you think it's ALL NV or AMD's fault and the high prices are pure profiteering then fine.

But Gibbo doesn't buy direct from NV, there are the middle grey men. He agrees a price to buy at with them, then has to make a profit and that gets passed on to you. None of us are privvy to what the grey middle men are buying them from NV/AMD at but imagine it isn't all NV/AMD & Gibbo. Like any retailer - needs profits for owners/shareholders. I don't think even it it was all down to profiteering, that it's NV making all the money. There's probably more than one level of greyman in the mix somewhere before it gets to UK retailers.

I'd say it's more likely if it is profiteerring that it's the grey man who saw what folk were prepared to pay for in the mining boom. Something that burnt loads of electricity to produce precisely nothing. Capitalism is fine, but when folk like the rich expect to make moeny from fdoing nothing or producing nothing, yiou know capitalism no longer works. Hence why you have a hedge fund manager as a PM. Why someone who earned £M/yr would do a £150k job baffles me. But therein lies the problem.

Enjoy rest of BH weekend all, I'm off outside in the sunshine. Been nice debating, inflation or profiteering - still feels the same.......

 

[Calin Banc]

The prices are low becuase people earn FA. That'll be why they all live in a box, and families have mortgages for properties that span generations and multiple generations live in the same house.

99% of the worlds base electronics are manufactured in China.

I yeild, if you think it's ALL NV or AMD's fault and the high prices are pure profiteering then fine.

But Gibbo doesn't buy direct from NV, there are the middle grey men. He agrees a price to buy at with them, then has to make a profit and that gets passed on to you. None of us are privvy to what the grey middle men are buying them from NV/AMD at but imagine it isn't all NV/AMD & Gibbo. Like any retailer - needs profits for owners/shareholders. I don't think even it it was all down to profiteering, that it's NV making all the money. There's probably more than one level of greyman in the mix somewhere before it gets to UK retailers.

I'd say it's more likely if it is profiteerring that it's the grey man who saw what folk were prepared to pay for in the mining boom. Something that burnt loads of electricity to produce precisely nothing. Capitalism is fine, but when folk like the rich expect to make moeny from fdoing nothing or producing nothing, yiou know capitalism no longer works. Hence why you have a hedge fund manager as a PM. Why someone who earned £M/yr would do a £150k job baffles me. But therein lies the problem.

Enjoy rest of BH weekend all, I'm off outside in the sunshine. Been nice debating, inflation or profiteering - still feels the same.......

The same supply chain argument applies to other products such as RAM, storage, CPU, etc, where prices dropped significantly. Even Tesla dropped prices. You can't claim your argument works only for dGPUs, but not for other products from (basically) the same industry.

Enjoy your weekend!

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The same supply chain argument applied to other products such as RAM, storage, CPU, etc. Even Tesla dropped priced. You can't claim your argument works only for dGPUs, bit not for other products from (basically) the same industry. Enjoy your weekend!

You know why. They want to increase margins to account for lower sales,and make more money. They also tried to spin crypto didn't contribute to their bottom end(when it most likely did),overproduced dGPUs and don't want to reduce them. The same as Turing V1 when they made too much Pascal dGPUs. Also if costs went up over double(why the RTX3060/RTX3060TI replacement is £800),then surely the RTX4090 would have costed £2500?
Sounds almost like Nvidia makes most of its dGPU sales in lower price ranges,and got excited when cretins paid £800 for RTX3060TI dGPUs,etc and got a nice boost in margins.

Considering AMD and Intel have discounted their bread and butter CPUs and made losses,we shouldn't have sympathy for Nvidia who could have priced this generation "well" and still managed to upsell smaller chips and make them for more money. Then AMD is joining too,as even they probably never expected Nvidia to hand them a bonanza too.

Edit!!

Has the pandemic done something to the memory of PCMR? Nvidia literally tried the same thing barely 18 months before it started with Turing. That was after another cryptoboom,and also gamers paying beyond the odds for dGPUs. People were making all sorts of weird excuses for Turing pricing too.

Why does need to be explained all over again,when it is obvious what is happening? PCMR needs to show less trust in these companies - they are clearly playing us for fools.

 

[gpuerrilla]

The same supply chain argument applies to other products such as RAM, storage, CPU, etc, where prices dropped significantly. Even Tesla dropped prices. You can't claim your argument works only for dGPUs, but not for other products from (basically) the same industry.

All I see is typical behaviour. Dip in, poorly delivered point, try to justify expensive purchase, dips out. Sticks to opinion. Enjoy the rest of the weekend folks!

Although it should come down faster, petrol/fuel has come down since July last year. Components as we have seen, are cheaper and some are abundant in stock. When the timing of these products launched there could have been some argument of why they launched high, however as pointed out in many posts prices can and should adjust to real market conditions. We can argue covid first and now inflation second are the 'reason' but sometimes you have to point out that certain products are exaggerating the situations and lying to you why they cost so much.

 

[oweneades]

I see you've enjoyed a 10 day tour of the diesel decks!

Please sir, can we take a break, I thing my brain circuits have melted.

@Rroff - Yep, its why I like to collect certain GPU's. I found the same with the A750 LE. Ignoring the performance for the price the actual presentation and card itself feels way more premium that you necessarily expect.

From what I can gather this is the same as the "reference" RDNA2/RDNA3 GPU's as well. Presentation and overall build quality is a noticeable step up from the third party models, even if the end result isn't quite as good in actual us.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Please sir, can we take a break, I thing my brain circuits have melted.

@Rroff - Yep, its why I like to collect certain GPU's. I found the same with the A750 LE. Ignoring the performance for the price the actual presentation and card itself feels way more premium that you necessarily expect.

From what I can gather this is the same as the "reference" RDNA2/RDNA3 GPU's as well. Presentation and overall build quality is a noticeable step up from the third party models, even if the end result isn't quite as good in actual us.

Any chance you can get around to benchmarking the Intel A770 and RTX4070 for the Fallout 4 thread? Intrigued to see what performance looks like!

 

[gpuerrilla]

Any chance you can get around to benchmarking the Intel A770 and RTX4070 for the Fallout 4 thread? Intrigued to see what performance looks like!

What? Blasphemy! Nobody mods I thought. Its all upsampling and staying within ram budgets on new hardware!

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

What? Blasphemy! Nobody mods I thought. Its all upsampling and staying within ram budgets on new hardware!

It's also a test of DX11 performance in the game to a lesser degree. Intel dGPUs have bigger issue with non-DX12 and non-Vulkan games. But it will be interesting to see if the performance is comparable to similarly priced AMD and Nvidia cards. Nvidia has advantages in this area. Also,only a few billion Fallout and Skyrim mods downloaded!

Going back to the earlier point, even if we factor inflation,Nvidia Gross GAAP margins are much higher than Apple. They are at 66.1% which is around the same as during the pandemic. Apple is at 44% so 2/3 that of Nvidia. AMD and Intel have had to drop prices on their bread and butter CPU releases already(and even made losses),and their own dGPUs and drop margins. I don't hear much sympathy for AMD and Intel here?

So why is Nvidia not reducing its "cheaper to make" Ampere cards,especially as Samsung 8NM is an older node now,and GDDR6 prices are much lower? Don't need to look at the new releases to see what is happening. People need to stop rationalising all of this.

They are being opportunistic.

 

[Woodsta888]

So why is Nvidia not reducing its "cheaper to make" Ampere cards,especially as Samsung 8NM is an older node now,and GDDR6 prices are much lower? Don't need to look at the new releases to see what is happening. People need to stop rationalising all of this.

They are being opportunistic.

I thought NV used GDDR6X which is much more (or was) expensive than plain old GDDR6 that AMD uses. Not that it makes any difference I've seen. If NV used normal GDDR6 then that could be passed on to consumer. DOes make you wonder where AMD get their prices from though. Prices are set £/fps at the end of the day.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I thought NV used GDDR6X which is much more (or was) expensive than plain old GDDR6 that AMD uses. Not that it makes any difference I've seen. If NV used normal GDDR6 then that could be passed on to consumer. DOes make you wonder where AMD get their prices from though. Prices are set £/fps at the end of the day.

Prices have collapsed. Samsung is loosing money and Micron are not doing so well either:

Press Center - Consumer Demand Remains Stagnant, Supply Chain Inventories Remain High, DRAM Q4 Price Drop to Expanded to 13~18%, Says TrendForce | TrendForce - Market research, price trend of DRAM, NAND Flash, LEDs, TFT-LCD and green energy, PV

According to TrendForce research, rising inflation has weakened demand for consumer products, flattening the peak of peak season. In 3Q22, memory bit consumption and shipments continued to exhibit quarterly decline. Due to a significant decline in memory demand, terminal buyers also delayed...

www.trendforce.com

In another thread apparently Nvidia has 225 days of inventory:

NVIDIA Faces Inventory Challenge as Graphics Card Prices Drop in Europe and North America

In the global markets of Europe and North America, a notable decline in graphics card prices, inclusive of the latest RTX 40 series, has been observed. This trend points towards potential sales diffic...

www.guru3d.com

Nvidia is trying to up its margins to compensate and to try and sell off old inventory at RRP. You can tell there is a GDDR6X oversupply due to models such as the RTX3060TI GDDR6X.

Same as Turing after they had too much Pascal inventory.Over the last 20 years companies have tried similar strategies.

AMD is taking advantage of the situation.
Both ATI and Nvidia got accused of price fixing once:

Nvidia settles price-fixing lawsuit

Out-of-court deal cut with plaintiffs

www.theregister.com

 

[Woodsta888]

Prices have collapsed. Samsung is loosing money and Micron are not doing so well either:

Press Center - Consumer Demand Remains Stagnant, Supply Chain Inventories Remain High, DRAM Q4 Price Drop to Expanded to 13~18%, Says TrendForce | TrendForce - Market research, price trend of DRAM, NAND Flash, LEDs, TFT-LCD and green energy, PV

According to TrendForce research, rising inflation has weakened demand for consumer products, flattening the peak of peak season. In 3Q22, memory bit consumption and shipments continued to exhibit quarterly decline. Due to a significant decline in memory demand, terminal buyers also delayed...

www.trendforce.com

In another thread apparently Nvidia has 225 days of inventory:

NVIDIA Faces Inventory Challenge as Graphics Card Prices Drop in Europe and North America

In the global markets of Europe and North America, a notable decline in graphics card prices, inclusive of the latest RTX 40 series, has been observed. This trend points towards potential sales diffic...

www.guru3d.com

Nvidia is trying to up its margins to compensate and to try and sell off old inventory at RRP. You can tell there is a GDDR6X oversupply due to models such as the RTX3060TI GDDR6X.

Same as Turing after they had too much Pascal inventory.Over the last 20 years companies have tried similar strategies.

AMD is taking advantage of the situation.
Both ATI and Nvidia got accused of price fixing once:

Nvidia settles price-fixing lawsuit

Out-of-court deal cut with plaintiffs

www.theregister.com

It does always amaze me that two companies (and hopefully intel) can make gfx cards completely seperately but end up near as makes no difference same ratser performance. Always thought that was more 'cahoots' than the prices. DLSS, FG & RT muddy those waters somewhat now. Additional technologies aside pure raster. Though AMD have the 7950XTX in the wings that will probably close up the 4090 gap.

Whilst mining sucked up supply, I odnt reckon NV saw much of that. Middle men maybe did more than anyone else. They soon shifted their supplies direct to mining outfits rather than keeping retailers supplied, once they saw the scalping profits. Or you reckon NV made a higher % then also?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It does always amaze me that two companies (and hopefully intel) can make gfx cards completely seperately but end up near as makes no difference same ratser performance. Always thought that was more 'cahoots' than the prices. DLSS, FG & RT muddy those waters somewhat now. Additional technologies aside pure raster. Though AMD have the 7950XTX in the wings that will probably close up the 4090 gap.

Whilst mining sucked up supply, I odnt reckon NV saw much of that. Middle men maybe did more than anyone else. They soon shifted their supplies direct to mining outfits rather than keeping retailers supplied, once they saw the scalping profits. Or you reckon NV made a higher % then also?

IIRC,their gross and net margins hit an all time high in early 2022. So they did make bank from it,and so did every other Tom,Dick and Harry in-between. WRT to similarity in basic performance,I think they are just adjusting the naming of the chips,etc not to step too much on each other's toes.

As much as I am not happy at what Nvidia are doing,I am not happy at what AMD is doing too. They might have reduced old prices more,but they are just as opportunistic as Nvidia in all of this. You knew very well when their CEO,said they didn't want to be a "budget option" where things are headed. You just need to see what they did in the last few years on the CPU side,when they sneaked ahead(copied a few tricks off Intel).

 

[Drollic]

Those poor people upgrading right now. They've been treated to another absolute gem in redfall

Back to a game from years ago or something indy that runs on a calculator I guess.