NVIDIA 4000 Series

Alt0153 · 17 May 2023 at 12:15

RavenXXX2 said:
Diablo comes with all 4000 series FE cards.

ah well thats news to me, i assumed not as it wasnt mentioned on the nvidia store page but i can see it is in the basket

Jay85 · 17 May 2023 at 12:17

Glanza said:
Surprised to see the 4090 still in stock, the last drop they lasted around 12 hours, this drop it's been 24 hours so far.

Seen it in stock for a few days tbf on some of the older drops, people are skint in this country.

random_matt · 17 May 2023 at 22:16

$399 and $499 apparently, the budget variants obviously.

Murphy · 17 May 2023 at 22:40

If the rumoured die size is correct at 190 mm² and TSMC's 5nm wafer costs are around the rumoured $17k anyone want to do the maths for how much Nvidia are paying for each 4060Ti die?

I would but my maths skills are awful.

Man-In-A-Teapot · 17 May 2023 at 23:35

Murphy said:
If the rumoured die size is correct at 190 mm² and TSMC's 5nm wafer costs are around the rumoured $17k anyone want to do the maths for how much Nvidia are paying for each 4060Ti die?

I would but my maths skills are awful.

I've popped some numbers in here

Silicon Cost Calculator

This calculator gives a rough estimate of the manufacturing cost of unpackaged semiconductor chips. Wafer prices aren’t something that is generally available, but doing an internet search of …

www.adapteva.com

It depends what you use for yield, but with yield at 90% of dies (keep in mind some with defects will still be used in the 4060 (non-Ti)) it comes up with cost of $58.30 per die.

Rroff · 17 May 2023 at 23:46

Yields aren't 90% - somewhere between 76 and 8x% not sure exactly what currently. Possible high 80s.

Man-In-A-Teapot · 18 May 2023 at 00:12

Well, if 85% is used it comes out at $61.73 instead, or if 80% is used it comes out at $65.59.

Rroff · 18 May 2023 at 00:54

So one way or another looking at approx $60 a die.

Murphy · 18 May 2023 at 06:30

So being generous we're maybe looking at a BoM of around $100-150, if we double that to cover things like profit, recouping R&D costs, software/driver development, etc, etc. We're maybe looking at $299 and $399 being a fair price.

g67575 · 18 May 2023 at 08:12

Glanza said:
Surprised to see the 4090 still in stock, the last drop they lasted around 12 hours, this drop it's been 24 hours so far.

Charging £1,579 for a GPU will do that.

Just to clear something up, the 4090 is not good value.

It costs around £9.40 per frame at 1440p (based on 1% low of 168, MSRP price).

The RX 7900 XT costs around £5.76 per frame at 1440p (based on 1% low of 130, price £750).

At 4K, cost per frame is £9.61 for the RX 7900 XT and £13.73 for the 4090.

If they drop the price of the RX 7900 XT further (e.g £700), the value of the 4090 will look even less favourable.

Bencher · 18 May 2023 at 08:43

g67575 said:
Charging £1,579 for a GPU will do that.

Just to clear something up, the 4090 is not good value.

It costs around £9.40 per frame at 1440p (based on 1% low of 168, MSRP price).

The RX 7900 XT costs around £5.76 per frame at 1440p (based on 1% low of 130, price £750).

At 4K, cost per frame is £9.61 for the RX 7900 XT and £13.73 for the 4090.

Cheaper cards always have better cost per frame. I'm sure the 3060ti has much better cost per frame than the 7900xt

Also 1440p is not where you should be testing a 4090. The cpu bottleneck will be nuts.

Rroff · 18 May 2023 at 08:46

g67575 said:
Charging £1,579 for a GPU will do that.

Just to clear something up, the 4090 is not good value.

It costs around £9.40 per frame at 1440p (based on 1% low of 168, MSRP price).

The RX 7900 XT costs around £5.76 per frame at 1440p (based on 1% low of 130, price £750).

At 4K, cost per frame is £9.61 for the RX 7900 XT and £13.73 for the 4090.

If they drop the price of the RX 7900 XT further (e.g £700), the value of the 4090 will look even less favourable.

The top GPU is never good value in that respect, however that's the costs of having the best.

Jono8 · 18 May 2023 at 08:47

Bencher said:
Cheaper cards always have better cost per frame. I'm sure the 3060ti has much better cost per frame than the 7900xt

I would not be so sure about that. It is about double the price, but also double the performance, so will have very similar cost per frame...

Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XT Pulse Review

Sapphire's Radeon RX 7900 XT Pulse is one of the more affordable RX 7900 XT custom designs out there. For $860 you get impressive 4K gaming performance and a triple-slot, triple-fan thermal solution that achieves amazing noise levels with good temperatures. Overclocking worked very well, too.

www.techpowerup.com

The 4090 is twice the price of a 7900 XT but only 30% faster at 1440 and 44% faster at 4k (so maybe on average 37/38% faster).

The 4090 is poor value.

g67575 · 18 May 2023 at 08:55

Bencher said:
Also 1440p is not where you should be testing a 4090. The cpu bottleneck will be nuts.

It's not even that really though.

The gap in 1% lows is approx. 35-37 FPS between the RTX 4090 and RX 7900 XT.

So the price is more than 2x as much, but you get about ~47% higher framerate at 4K.

Bencher · 18 May 2023 at 08:56

Jono8 said:
I would not be so sure about that. It is about double the price, but also double the performance, so will have very similar cost per frame...

Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XT Pulse Review

Sapphire's Radeon RX 7900 XT Pulse is one of the more affordable RX 7900 XT custom designs out there. For $860 you get impressive 4K gaming performance and a triple-slot, triple-fan thermal solution that achieves amazing noise levels with good temperatures. Overclocking worked very well, too.

www.techpowerup.com

The 4090 is twice the price of a 7900 XT but only 30% faster at 1440 and 44% faster at 4k (so maybe on average 37/38% faster).

The 4090 is poor value.

Is it? You can get a 3060ti from EU for 370 euros. If the 7900xt is double the performance it needs to costs 740 to be of equal value.

As I've said before, performance doesn't scale linearly with price. A 44% performance gap is actually insanely big when we are talking about high end products.

Bencher · 18 May 2023 at 08:58

g67575 said:
It's not even that really though.

The gap in 1% lows is about 35 FPS between the RTX 4090 and RX 7900 XT.

So the price is more than 2x as much, but you get about ~47% higher framerate.

And that's insanely good value actually. A 1 to 2 price to performance ratio at the high end is pretty great. If you do the same math the 7800x 3d isn't a good value cause the 7700x is much cheaper.

Jono8 · 18 May 2023 at 08:58

Bencher said:
Is it? You can get a 3060ti from EU for 370 euros. If the 7900xt is double the performance it needs to costs 740 to be of equal value.

As I've said before, performance doesn't scale linearly with price. A 44% performance gap is actually insanely big when we are talking about high end products.

?

The 7900 XT is £750 here. Cheapest 3060Ti's are still £360, so yes the 7900 XT is pretty much bang on twice the money (ok £30 more than double..), but for twice the performance.

I was responding to your point about the 3060ti having "much better" cost per frame than the 7900 XT which is 100% not true. They are almost identical.

mrk · 18 May 2023 at 09:00

Got £20 for my old 3080 ti fe box this morning

Bencher · 18 May 2023 at 09:00

Jono8 said:
?

The 7900 XT is £750 here. Cheapest 3060Ti's are still £360, so yes the 7900 XT is pretty much bang on twice the money (ok £30 more than double..), but for twice the performance.

I was responding to your point about the 3060ti having "much better" cost per frame than the 7900 XT which is 100% not true. They are almost identical.

I was using EU prices, cheapest xt is 849 euros, while cheapest 60ti is 370.

g67575 · 18 May 2023 at 09:06

Bencher said:
A 1 to 2 price to performance ratio at the high end is pretty great.

Since when?