NVIDIA 4000 Series

Joxeon · 21 Jul 2023 at 15:01

Grim5 said:
As others mentioned Arc GPUs are sold at a loss. Intel's GPU division is running a multi billion dollar loss. So actually no you can't compare the prices, there is no way Nvidia is gonna be a loss leader when they already have 85% market share

Feel free to ask AMD to sell at a loss, they're in a position to do so since their market share is so tiny but don't ask Nvidia they won't even consider it

It’s likely a loss when RND costs are factored in especially since intel was starting from scratch and needed a lot of development and driver work but it’s very unlikely the actual hardware is being sold at a loss.

Author_25 · 21 Jul 2023 at 15:07

Out of interest would anyone here by a themed card as shown in the article below, and if so would you be more likely to by a RTX 4000 series card?

ASUS preparing GeForce RTX 4070 TI ROG STRIX "RO Ji" Edition graphics card - VideoCardz.com

ASUS RTX 4070 Ti RO JI Edition teased ASUS is gearing up to launch a new edition of its ROG STRIX series. ASUS introduced the RO JI (RO姬) avatar as part of the Se7en series, as an enticing offering aimed at a specific group of gamers. The company developed two product series, one in white […]

videocardz.com

nomadd · 21 Jul 2023 at 15:47

Author_25 said:
Out of interest would anyone here by a themed card as shown in the article below, and if so would you be more likely to by a RTX 4000 series card?

ASUS preparing GeForce RTX 4070 TI ROG STRIX "RO Ji" Edition graphics card - VideoCardz.com

ASUS RTX 4070 Ti RO JI Edition teased ASUS is gearing up to launch a new edition of its ROG STRIX series. ASUS introduced the RO JI (RO姬) avatar as part of the Se7en series, as an enticing offering aimed at a specific group of gamers. The company developed two product series, one in white […]

videocardz.com

Looking at the artwork on those cards, they do seem to reflect how the 40 series has gone overall: tities up.

mingey · 21 Jul 2023 at 15:49

Author_25 said:
Out of interest would anyone here by a themed card as shown in the article below, and if so would you be more likely to by a RTX 4000 series card?

ASUS preparing GeForce RTX 4070 TI ROG STRIX "RO Ji" Edition graphics card - VideoCardz.com

ASUS RTX 4070 Ti RO JI Edition teased ASUS is gearing up to launch a new edition of its ROG STRIX series. ASUS introduced the RO JI (RO姬) avatar as part of the Se7en series, as an enticing offering aimed at a specific group of gamers. The company developed two product series, one in white […]

videocardz.com

Definitely a no from me, wouldn't consider it all, I went with an all black 4090, but I'm not the target audience I don't sit my PC on the desk, and have it looking like a unicorn disco.

iron_monkey · 21 Jul 2023 at 16:06

Thoses cards would appeal to kids who cant afford them.

Aretak · 21 Jul 2023 at 16:07

Joxeon said:
It’s likely a loss when RND costs are factored in especially since intel was starting from scratch and needed a lot of development and driver work but it’s very unlikely the actual hardware is being sold at a loss.

They sure aren't making any money selling a card with a 406mm² die on TSMC 6nm for $200, given there's a lot more to consider than raw component prices even without factoring in R&D and startup costs. Even the original MSRPs were much lower than Intel had planned. Their own leaked slides from 2021 had the A770 competing with and priced to just undercut the (at the time) $500 3070. They had to knock $150 off that in the end thanks to the shabby drivers and missed performance targets. Intel have sold at a loss plenty of times in the past to gain market share in new areas. They spent $7bn in two years flooding the market with cheap Atom tablets in a desperate, failed attempt to try and compete with Apple and ARM. I don't think Pat Gelsinger's Intel is remotely the same company in that respect, but that's also why there's been a lot of nervous talk about whether Arc is something that'll survive his cost-cutting initiatives.

Haz123 · 21 Jul 2023 at 16:07

Author_25 said:
Out of interest would anyone here by a themed card as shown in the article below, and if so would you be more likely to by a RTX 4000 series card?

I am not against these type of cards and I do think they can look good and like said above I am not the target audience. Out of all the 10000 of characters in the anime and real world I think I would only ever be interested in a Sephiroth themed card so I doubt it will ever happen.

robgmun · 21 Jul 2023 at 16:55

RavenXXX2 said:

Just watched this, i have to admit, the extra memory has given the 4060Ti a much bigger uplift than I thought it would, also that frame time graphs are a heck of a lot smoother. If they priced this closer to £400 than £500 then it would have been a half decent card.

Joxeon · 21 Jul 2023 at 16:59

Aretak said:
They sure aren't making any money selling a card with a 406mm² die on TSMC 6nm for $200, given there's a lot more to consider than raw component prices even without factoring in R&D and startup costs. Even the original MSRPs were much lower than Intel had planned. Their own leaked slides from 2021 had the A770 competing with and priced to just undercut the (at the time) $500 3070. They had to knock $150 off that in the end thanks to the shabby drivers and missed performance targets. Intel have sold at a loss plenty of times in the past to gain market share in new areas. They spent $7bn in two years flooding the market with cheap Atom tablets in a desperate, failed attempt to try and compete with Apple and ARM. I don't think Pat Gelsinger's Intel is remotely the same company in that respect, but that's also why there's been a lot of nervous talk about whether Arc is something that'll survive his cost-cutting initiatives.

I think people are over estimating the costs to build GPU's, other than the die's the rest of the parts are dirt cheap especially with the bulk orders these parts are bought in. I can't imagine even a 4090 costs anymore than $450 in parts to build.

throwaway4372 · 21 Jul 2023 at 17:08

If I bought either of those cards I would expect my friends to do the humane thing.

Tinek · 21 Jul 2023 at 17:09

Joxeon said:
I think people are over estimating the costs to build GPU's, other than the die's the rest of the parts are dirt cheap especially with the bulk orders these parts are bought in. I can't imagine even a 4090 costs anymore than $450 in parts to build.

I've seen rumours that BOM for 4080 is less than $300. $400 for 4090 sounds about right.

Raelgun · 21 Jul 2023 at 17:13

Joxeon said:
I think people are over estimating the costs to build GPU's, other than the die's the rest of the parts are dirt cheap especially with the bulk orders these parts are bought in. I can't imagine even a 4090 costs anymore than $450 in parts to build.

People think we are still in the pandemic and shortages exist

gjbf1 · 21 Jul 2023 at 17:18

Joxeon said:
I think people are over estimating the costs to build GPU's, other than the die's the rest of the parts are dirt cheap especially with the bulk orders these parts are bought in. I can't imagine even a 4090 costs anymore than $450 in parts to build.

Probably. The vRAM probably costs a bit? Especially 24GB. There's R&D and software support to take into account. Plus shipping and packaging etc.

Markup is easily 100%+ though.

Lightnix · 21 Jul 2023 at 17:23

RavenXXX2 said:

Takeaways for me are: it's technically a worse value proposition than the 8GB model, we kind of knew that already, the markup is mad.

It does show where 8GB gets bottlenecked today and this will likely get worse in the not too distant future as games inevitably reach for more VRAM. VRAM limits are definitely applicable at this performance level.

The markup is still a **** take.

The 4060 ti is still unnecessarily bottlenecked for its price point and 12GB would have been the sweet spot but Nvidia have played silly buggers with their SKUs and memory buses.

gpuerrilla · 21 Jul 2023 at 17:34

gjbf1 said:
Probably. The vRAM probably costs a bit? Especially 24GB. There's R&D and software support to take into account. Plus shipping and packaging etc.

Markup is easily 100%+ though.

No. Not as much as people think anyway. Steve said in that very video they had to redesign the pcb/layout, but they wouldnt need to do this if they stopped being so tight with the vram in the first place. As he referred to multiple times, it doesnt justify a $100 markup and said the 16GB card should cost no more than what the 8GB card costs already.

Lightnix said:
It does show where 8GB gets bottlenecked today and this will likely get worse in the not too distant future as games inevitably reach for more VRAM. VRAM limits are definitely applicable at this performance level.

The markup is still a **** take.

The 4060 ti is still unnecessarily bottlenecked for its price point and 12GB would have been the sweet spot but Nvidia have played silly buggers with their SKUs and memory buses.

This.

Raelgun · 21 Jul 2023 at 17:36

gpuerrilla said:
No. Not as much as people think anyway. Steve said in that very video they had to redesign the pcb/layout, but they wouldnt need to do this if they stopped being so tight with the vram in the first place. As he referred to multiple times, it doesnt justify a $100 markup and said the 16GB card should cost no more than what the 8GB card costs already.

This.

I think Nvidia is also counting on these selling very badly to then say to everyone.

Look no one bought 16gb card, never again

G J · 21 Jul 2023 at 17:37

The extra memory on the 4060ti 16GB helps but but it's a waste as many of the games @ 1440p and in some of the games even at 1080p this card cant even maintain 60fps in the averages and the 1% lows.

Tetras · 21 Jul 2023 at 17:41

Lightnix said:
Takeaways for me

Am I being dumb, or are there no 4K results?

Lightnix · 21 Jul 2023 at 17:45

Tetras said:
Am I being dumb, or are there no 4K results?

Yeah I see that. Although to be fair 1440p is probably the most relevant res for this card. Still I hope techpowerup has something soon as they usually cover all these kinds of bases. And don't tell me they've given up on the idea as they review all sorts of random AIB variants.

gpuerrilla · 21 Jul 2023 at 17:50

Raelgun said:
I think Nvidia is also counting on these selling very badly to then say to everyone.

Look no one bought 16gb card, never again

Yes that would be to form, even though it was a knee-jerk decision last minute to save face and completely pointless. However in general most of the low end cards this gen are not much to shout about over last gen - they would do better in trying to bring down the cost of the top end.