NVIDIA 4000 Series

[Murphy]

Whilst true with the omission of frame generation, we are getting 2/3 new additions from v3 so to say we aren't getting dlss 3 at all isn't quite 100% correct.

Not really, the only thing (afaik) that differentiates DLSS 3 from 2 is the addition of the frame generation feature. Remove that and you have DLSS 2 or to put it another way the only new feature added to DLSS 3 is the thing previous generation cards can't use, the frame generation feature, so if they can't use that new feature they're not using the only feature that makes DLSS 3, DLSS 3.

Reads to me like those are new additions to dlss:

DLSS Super Resolution and NVIDIA Reflex will of course remain supported on prior generation hardware, so a broader set of customers will continue to benefit from new DLSS 3 integrations. We continue to train the AI model for DLSS Super Resolution and will provide updates for all RTX GPUs as our research

Not new, they've been a part of DLSS 2 since day 1.

 

[Nexus18]

Here's the article on dlss 3:

Introducing NVIDIA DLSS 3

Multiply frame rates by up to 4X!

www.nvidia.com

Building upon DLSS Super Resolution, DLSS 3 adds Optical Multi Frame Generation to generate entirely new frames, and integrates NVIDIA Reflex low latency technology for optimal responsiveness. DLSS 3 is powered by the new fourth-generation Tensor Cores and Optical Flow Accelerator of the NVIDIA Ada Lovelace architecture, which powers GeForce RTX 40 Series graphics cards.

With DLSS 3 enabled, AI is reconstructing three-fourths of the first frame with DLSS Super Resolution, and reconstructing the entire second frame using DLSS Frame Generation. In total, DLSS 3 reconstructs seven-eighths of the total displayed pixels, increasing performance significantly!

So seems the reflex is "new" and now apart of dlss 3.

Not sure on the "super resolution" feature though but reads like it is apart of dlss 2 and just been improved?

 

[deuse]

Can't wait for the prices of the asus cards

 

[eddyr]

It will work as it has always done, and will improve still as it evolves.

An nvidia dev explained it in another thread, but the gist of it is:

• DLSS 3 is a superset of DLSS 2.
• DLSS 3 has three parts of this superset (Frame Generation, Super Resolution and Reflex), the only part that is exclusive to RTX 40XX is Frame Generation which predicts and draws the frames ahead of use, (this is what NV said is drawn at 120fps?). frame Gen is possible on RTX 30XX but the Optical Flow Accelerators needed for it on 30XX are slower/lower quality from what the dev has stated.
• As DLSS 3 is a superset of DLSS 2, DLSS 3 upgrades over time will continue to benefit older cards only capable of DLSS 2 as these will still gain improvements. So 30XX isn't dead in the water with "only" DLSS 2 like many are thinking.

I missed that about 120fps, do you know where/when it was said by any chance?

This seems quite telling about its limits.
Up to 2x frame rate. I don't recall if that was stated in the talk.

NVIDIA Introduces DLSS 3 With Breakthrough AI-Powered Frame Generation for up to 4x Performance

NVIDIA today announced NVIDIA® DLSS 3, an AI-powered performance multiplier that kicks off a new era of NVIDIA RTX™ neural rendering for games and applications.

nvidianews.nvidia.com

Because DLSS Frame Generation executes as a post-process on the GPU, it can boost frame rates even when the game is bottlenecked by the CPU. For CPU-limited games, such as those that are physics heavy or involve large worlds, DLSS 3 allows the GeForce RTX 40 Series GPUs to render the game at up to twice the frame rate that the CPU is able to compute the game.

This all sounds like a implementation of tech long established in TV's, creating intermediate frames, so you get a higher Hz output.
The innovation being that it doesn't have the next frame available, so has to calculate off motion vectors as a best guess for the predicted intermediate frame.

It can't synthesize too many intermediate frames without detrimentally affecting the user experience. It must have a lower bound of FPS operation, and I wonder whether it can dynamically alter the fps boundary at which it can boost frames by depending on the amount or type of motion. So in MSFS flying steady straight line is an optimal scenario. As might be physics heavy chaotic effects where the CPU stumbles, the GPU pops in a some frames.

 

[Murphy]

So seems the reflex is "new" and now apart of dlss 3.

No.

When Nvidia launched its 30-Series graphics cards, it was keen to champion a brand new feature: Nvidia Reflex.

 

[Nexus18]

No.

I know what reflex is..... I use/enable it in games which support it....

This is now integrated with dlss 3, see the article saying this:

Building upon DLSS Super Resolution, DLSS 3 adds Optical Multi Frame Generation to generate entirely new frames, and integrates NVIDIA Reflex low latency technology for optimal responsiveness. DLSS 3 is powered by the new fourth-generation Tensor Cores and Optical Flow Accelerator of the NVIDIA Ada Lovelace architecture, which powers GeForce RTX 40 Series graphics cards.

i.e. it will no longer need to be a separate option in game, it is now apart of dlss 3 thus any game that adds dlss 3 will now have reflex as standard, which will apply to all RTX gpus and not just 40xx

 

[dave1983]

be interesting to see the prices of the EVGA cards wait.... LOL. i will laugh hard if they move towards AMD

 

[tommybhoy]

Reflex launched in Fortnite 2 years ago as an RTX On feature

 

[Minstadave]

I know what reflex is..... I use/enable it in games which support it....

This is now integrated with dlss 3, see the article saying this:



i.e. it will no longer need to be a separate option in game, it is now apart of dlss 3 thus any game that adds dlss 3 will now have reflex as standard, which will apply to all RTX gpus and not just 40xx

It has to be part of DLSS 3 as the frame interpolation adds latency so Reflex is an inherent part of how they try to mitigate for that.

 

[Nexus18]

Reflex launched in Fortnite 2 years ago as an RTX feature

Yes the "reflex" feature is years old, it was always a separate option to be added to games (only games I've enabled it were deathloop and god of war, can't recall of any others), now it is added as part of dlss.

Not something I care for, just means less work for developers now I suppose.

 

[humbug]

I wonder if the 4000 series will play nicely with Gen12 renderer?

I think anything will....

 

[tommybhoy]

But it's not 'new'

 

[gpuerrilla]

But it's not 'new'

Did you pay for it though tommy? #FSR

 

[Murphy]

I know what reflex is..... I use/enable it in games which support it....

This is now integrated with dlss 3, see the article saying this:

i.e. it will no longer need to be a separate option in game, it is now apart of dlss 3 thus any game that adds dlss 3 will now have reflex as standard, which will apply to all RTX gpus and not just 40xx

So your argument is that because you may not need to toggle an option in a game, based on nothing but supposition, that you'll now be using DLSS 3 even though you won't be using the only feature that makes DLSS 3, DLSS 3.

 

[tommybhoy]

Did you pay for it though tommy? #FSR

Bought and paid for, it would have helped finance the fine art of quadplicated frames at speed.

 

[Nexus18]

It has to be part of DLSS 3 as the frame interpolation adds latency so Reflex is an inherent part of how they try to mitigate for that.

Exactly.

DLSS 3 also incorporates NVIDIA Reflex, which synchronizes the GPU and CPU, ensuring optimum responsiveness and low system latency. Lower system latency makes game controls more responsive, and ensures on-screen actions occur almost instantaneously once you click your mouse or other control input. When compared to native, DLSS 3 can reduce latency by up to 2X.

Going to be interesting to see how much lag this frame generation adds.....



So technically all RTX owners are getting DLSS 3....

It'll be interesting to see if modders can force the frame generation to work on turing and ampere but suspect even if they can, it won't be a good experience.

 

[humbug]

be interesting to see the prices of the EVGA cards wait.... LOL. i will laugh hard if they move towards AMD

Thinking more about this, i don't think AMD would have them, they don't have the market share, it would spread supply to others too thin, and literally this.....

 

[Nexus18]

So your argument is that because you may not need to toggle an option in a game, based on nothing but supposition, that you'll now be using DLSS 3 even though you won't be using the only feature that makes DLSS 3, DLSS 3.

Ah yes "argument", you lot sure are a strange bunch at times

Statement was made that the only "new" thing to do with dlss 3 is the frame generation, as shown by the article, this is wrong, do you concur?

You then made the comment that 2 of the subset features have been apart of dlss 2 since day 1 i.e. the only new thing is the frame generation, yet nvidias very own article states reflex is now "integrated with dlss v3", do you concur?

Not new, they've been a part of DLSS 2 since day 1.

Reflex is now apart of dlss v3 thus it is a new feature for dlss, do you concur?

The statements by nvidia staff have stated that RTX owners will be able to use dlss 3 but not all of the "new features" of v3 i.e. can't use frame generation, which is 1 of the 3 subset features as part of dlss v3, do you concur?

 

[tommybhoy]

Thinking more about this, i don't think AMD would have them, they don't have the market share, it would spread supply to others too thin, and literally this.....

I'm 'guessing' it'll be in the contract that Evga can't go AMD until they stop supporting their sold Nv stock.

 

[Journey]

I'm 'guessing' it'll be in the contract that Evga can't go AMD until they stop supporting their sold Nv stock.

If it is then it is hardly a barrier, they setup a.n.other company, sell the stock to them at a loss, and move along on their merry way.

They (Nvidia) can't stop EVGA doing whatever they want, unless an agreement was signed that prevents them from doing so, but it will have nothing to do with stock levels.