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NVIDIA 4000 Series

Can we go back to the DLSS 3 point about fake frames.
People don't like the idea of computer generated frames being inserted into the pipeline in between the other computer generated frames. Yup you all seem to forget that all the frames are computer generated in the first place.
Ok so they are generated in a different way, but does that make them any less relevant. We had the same argument back when CPU hyperthreading started, oh no there not real cores that will never do. Technology moves on, new things emerge, some even catch on and stick around, others die off quite quickly. Up scaling is here to stay as both NVidia, AMD and even Intel now use it.

If this way of increasing frame rates, proves to be successful, then the others will follow suit, if it isn't then it will die off.
 
The notes posted earlier about power usage when DLSS was enabled got me curious as it's not something I ever explored on the 3080 Ti, just always used DLSS and thought nothing more of it, so did a comparison in CP2077 at a standard 2560x1440. All settings maxed inc the two RT and lighting settings set to Psycho and ran the benchmark to keep things fair. quite impressed with the power usage drop going from DLSS off to DLSS Quality and then Performance. More fps, lower latency, lower power use, lower rpm GPU fan, lower temps...

A complete and total win really and a convincing reason to run with DLSS instead of native.

DLSS_statsbench.jpg


I wonder what the new RT Overdrive + DLSS 3 update to 2077 will do for non 40 series cards. I am happy running the game in DLSS Balanced mode or even Performance as the picture quality is still very good.
 
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Considering raw raster performance, if the Tech Powerup article earlier is anything to go by, then it's up to 59fps on Cyberpunk when DLSS is not turned on, then you have the increased latency too. To my eyes reading that, it doesn't seem like a big jump in raw raster performance from my 3080 Ti, let alone a 3090 Ti which would be a bit higher still.

Is that difference worth the cost of a 4090 and a new PSU upgrade too? That can only be answered on an individual basis I suppose. To me it doesn't seem cost effective. DLSS is the future, but DLSS 2 core components will continue to be developed as they form the subset of DLSS 3 anyway, so both will continue to improve. I think I would rather the higher fps and lower latency when these are laid on the table.

In my example above I can feel the latency difference between no DLSS vs DLSS in Quality vs Performance. You should be able to anyway as those latency figures are quite big jumps. Granted I do not have a Reflex compatible mouse so cannot speak for how that component of the technology changes the experience.

Once the 40XX prices are slashed, this view might change though as cost vs relative perf is a big consideration as mentioned already in the thread for many, regardless of affordability, it's more the principles.

I do however want to see the same test from a 4080 16GB...
 
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mrk said:
The notes posted earlier about power usage when DLSS was enabled got me curious as it's not something I ever explored on the 3080 Ti, just always used DLSS and thought nothing more of it, so did a comparison in CP2077 at a standard 2560x1440. All settings maxed inc the two RT and lighting settings set to Psycho and ran the benchmark to keep things fair. quite impressed with the power usage drop going from DLSS off to DLSS Quality and then Performance. More fps, lower latency, lower power use, lower rpm GPU fan, lower temps...

A complete and total win really and a convincing reason to run with DLSS instead of native.

DLSS_statsbench.jpg


I wonder what the new update to 2077 will do for non 30 series cards. I am happy running the game in DLSS Balanced mode or even Performance as the picture quality is still very good.
Click to expand...

I was saying that a while back in the RTX thread, DLSS balanced and even performance mode has come a long way in recent months and also noticed it in DF recent review of xess where performance mode looks better than even native 4k on the whole:

Intel demos XeSS super resolution -open-AI-AMD/Nvidia can use it

https://twitter.com/Okami13_/status/1478121299427926016?s=20 Likely won't happen but it would be pretty cool if you have an Intel XeSS compatible iGPU in your CPU if that could do the upscaling while your dGPU does the main rendering.
forums.overclockers.co.uk forums.overclockers.co.uk

I did have an imgsli comparison of native/quality vs performance mode in cp 2077 and you couldn't tell the difference, can't find the post now though :(

Something tells me RT overdrive mode is going to perform horribly on anything but 40xx gpus though:

  • Shader Execution Reordering (SER), which reorders and parallelizes the execution of threads that trace rays without compromising image quality.
  • Opacity Micromaps - Accelerate ray tracing workloads by encoding the surface opacity directly onto the geometry, drastically reducing expensive opacity evaluation during ray traversal and enabling higher quality acceleration structures to be constructed. This technique is especially beneficial when applied to irregularly-shaped or translucent objects, like foliage and fences. On GeForce RTX 40 Series graphics cards, the Opacity Micromap format is directly decodable by ray tracing hardware, improving performance even further.
  • NVIDIA Real Time Denoisers (NRD) - A spatio-temporal ray tracing denoising library that assists in denoising low ray-per-pixel signals with real-time performance. Compared to previous-gen denoisers, NRD improves quality and ensures the computationally intensive ray-traced output is noise-free, without performance tradeoffs.
Click to expand...
 
Nexus18 said:
I was saying that a while back in the RTX thread, DLSS balanced and even performance mode has come a long way in recent months and also noticed it in DF recent review of xess where performance mode looks better than even native 4k on the whole:

Intel demos XeSS super resolution -open-AI-AMD/Nvidia can use it

https://twitter.com/Okami13_/status/1478121299427926016?s=20 Likely won't happen but it would be pretty cool if you have an Intel XeSS compatible iGPU in your CPU if that could do the upscaling while your dGPU does the main rendering.
forums.overclockers.co.uk forums.overclockers.co.uk

I did have an imgsli comparison of native/quality vs performance mode in cp 2077 and you couldn't tell the difference, can't find the post now though :(

Something tells me RT overdrive mode is going to perform horribly on anything but 40xx gpus though:
Click to expand...
  • Shader Execution Reordering (SER), which reorders and parallelizes the execution of threads that trace rays without compromising image quality.
  • Opacity Micromaps - Accelerate ray tracing workloads by encoding the surface opacity directly onto the geometry, drastically reducing expensive opacity evaluation during ray traversal and enabling higher quality acceleration structures to be constructed. This technique is especially beneficial when applied to irregularly-shaped or translucent objects, like foliage and fences. On GeForce RTX 40 Series graphics cards, the Opacity Micromap format is directly decodable by ray tracing hardware, improving performance even further.
  • NVIDIA Real Time Denoisers (NRD) - A spatio-temporal ray tracing denoising library that assists in denoising low ray-per-pixel signals with real-time performance. Compared to previous-gen denoisers, NRD improves quality and ensures the computationally intensive ray-traced output is noise-free, without performance tradeoffs.
Click to expand...
I'm wondering for how many of those features AMD will managed to have something similar? It could be something that will improve performance greatly, but only for the green team which doesn't bode well for AMD in the long run. If they'll postpone a lot longer to get into the game they may found themselves outside of it entirely.

DLSS for performance and such, in movement, you can see is not as sharp. In Metro Exodus EE there are obvious "glitches" on the windshield of the vehicle you drive in the desert and so on. Still incredible tech.
 
tyke_ said:
so because the 4k (and over 4k with VR gamers) are in the minority should they not be catered for also?
Click to expand...

If Nvidia wants to maximize profit, they're going to need a bigger market.

Profit is margin and volume. They have to balance those conflicting variables. Bigger margins generally mean less volume. Less margin generally means more volume.
 
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