NVIDIA 4000 Series

[sewerino26]

I remember wanting to go AMD around launch and I couldn’t find a card at all. Then I decided to just stick with the 2080 due to 3D vision support via a driver hack.

I think stock is gonna be low all round.

Hopefully 4090s won’t be due to the price.

4090 is cheap for me

 

[Lashley93]

10 days waiting............

Hoping stock isn't awful

 

[Dr. Josh]

Couple of quick questions for those in the know and apologies in advance if these have already been well covered:

1. I have a 850w 80+ Gold PSU - Am I likely to need to upgrade to handle a 4090?
2. Have there been any indications on card volumes yet. Is it going to be impossible to source a card like the 30 series launch?

Cheers!

 

[DarkFulgore]

Margins are high, but pretty typical for tech. What is not priced in to the current margins is the future R&D costs which are increasing exponentially. This why margins have to be high so future products will be competitive.

The shareholders only care about profit, so they would be perfectly happy if lower price points lead to higher volumes, but i suspect that is not the case. Every new release the forums are full of people ranting about costs, but then AMD and Nvidia go on to sell record volumes. The market sets the price, AMD and Nvidia can only try and find the market price .


Personally i find the prices ridiculous, especially compared to a console, but i guess most people don't care that much.

Great points and thats a huge factor. Right now Nvidia are charging huge money for their new cards, and with marketing tactics being used to dupe customers. The main factor is that we are in a huge cost of living increase. Consumers are going to build 2-3k gaming machines. Their going to buy the used products. Nvidia and AMD absolutely loved making a killing last gen and went on to increase supply and cost to meet massive demand, now all that money they made can be used for R&D, but they have to deal with the fact they have created massive oversupply of really good tech. They would love to hold on to that high price high demand, but their not idiots either, their advisors know full well there is a price celling, especially right now. This is all a tactic to get 30 series stock out the door and selling over price cards to those willing to pay it, and then drop the price to shift large volumes later.

 

[aoaaron]

4090 is cheap for me

Lmao.


It’s a bit pricey for me but I can afford it with an extra couple of shifts at work.

It’s the entire new build which is an issue. Not sure whether to go intel or amd.

 

[Jay85]

I remember wanting to go AMD around launch and I couldn’t find a card at all. Then I decided to just stick with the 2080 due to 3D vision support via a driver hack.

I think stock is gonna be low all round.

Hopefully 4090s won’t be due to the price.

Same when i couldn't get a 3080 i was set on getting a 6800xt then brexit happened and AMD closed its store on us limiting us to AIB's which were again non existent at the time.

I'm sure there will be plenty of 4090's about, whether you should buy one though that's another discussion.

 

[ljt]

Take a look at the value of the £ vs the $ during the last 5 years. Then take a look at inflation during the last 5 years. Then consider shipping costs (energy prices influence this) over the last 5 years. Then consider the supply shortage.

Consider all these points, and it's very obvious why things keep getting more expensive, it's not just Nvidia or AMD being greedy and hiking up prices................

I'm not talking about £ costs though. I appreciate currency conversion so im only ever referring to base USD msrps. There has been quite an increase in USD msrps.

The other factors like shipping and component costs do not justify the large increaes in MSRPs in USD though. The margins NVIDA has are extortionate so I have no time for their excuses.

I'll will reserve full judgement until real benchmarks are released though.

Typically we see around 25-30% improvement in performance between each generation for roughly the same cost. Product naming aside.

So a 3080ti fe was just over $1100 so the closest price wise this round is the 4080 16gb for $1199. So let's see if we get a minimum 30% increase in raw performance without dlss trickery.

The 4080 12gb is $900 so there wasn't a 30 series card that cost that at launch iirc. The closest was between the 3080 ($699) and 3080ti ($1100) so it will either need to be significantly faster than a 3080 (60% faster) or slighlty faster than a 3080ti to even break even in price/performance.

 

[brostradamus]

Margins are high, but pretty typical for tech. What is not priced in to the current margins is the future R&D costs which are increasing exponentially. This why margins have to be high so future products will be competitive.

The shareholders only care about profit, so they would be perfectly happy if lower price points lead to higher volumes, but i suspect that is not the case. Every new release the forums are full of people ranting about costs, but then AMD and Nvidia go on to sell record volumes. The market sets the price, AMD and Nvidia can only try and find the market price .


Personally i find the prices ridiculous, especially compared to a console, but i guess most people don't care that much.

i think people are also confusing those margins as gaming margins, my guess is that it also includes workstation and super-computing business, gaming margins cant be that high because you have to also move a lot of value through low-end items (like the 1660) and then you have oem channels like pre-builts, laptops etc... am pretty sure here that dell, lenovo have an upper hand when negotiating with nvidia

 

[aoaaron]

Great points and thats a huge factor. Right now Nvidia are charging huge money for their new cards, and with marketing tactics being used to dupe customers. The main factor is that we are in a huge cost of living increase. Consumers are going to build 2-3k gaming machines. Their going to buy the used products. Nvidia and AMD absolutely loved making a killing last gen and went on to increase supply and cost to meet massive demand, now all that money they made can be used for R&D, but they have to deal with the fact they have created massive oversupply of really good tech. They would love to hold on to that high price high demand, but their not idiots either, their advisors know full well there is a price celling, especially right now. This is all a tactic to get 30 series stock out the door and selling over price cards to those willing to pay it, and then drop the price to shift large volumes later.

To be fair, why are people running out to get 40 series and their knickers in a twist when we have excellent 30 series cards available?

The only reason I am entertaining a 40 series card is because I am using 4k triple screen gaming and if a high resolution Vr headset comes out, I wanna use it.

I don’t think anyone with an ultra wide, a 1440p screen or a super ultra wide needs to even entrain the thought of upgrading. Even 4k wise, a 3090 is going to do very very well and as long as new games have dlss, it will lower through them too. They can always slightly decrease settings too… and we have fsr now too and more games have resolution scalers where you can get a cheeky 5-10 percent for a very mild visual downgrade

I feel bad for 20 series users as we got shafted with the 20 series and we are getting shafted again

 

[sewerino26]

Couple of quick questions for those in the know and apologies in advance if these have already been well covered:

1. I have a 850w 80+ Gold PSU - Am I likely to need to upgrade to handle a 4090?
2. Have there been any indications on card volumes yet. Is it going to be impossible to source a card like the 30 series launch?

Cheers!

I think 850 W will be on the edge. You can have reboots or instability. But i am not sure. Maybe someone here will be know more.

 

[Jay85]

To be fair, why are people running out to get 40 series and their knickers in a twist when we have excellent 30 series cards available?

The only reason I am entertaining a 40 series card is because I am using 4k triple screen gaming and if a high resolution Vr headset comes out, I wanna use it.

I don’t think anyone with an ultra wide, a 1440p screen or a super ultra wide needs to even entrain the thought of upgrading. Even 4k wise, a 3090 is going to do very very well and as long as new games have dlss, it will lower through them too. They can always slightly decrease settings too… and we have fsr now too and more games have resolution scalers where you can get a cheeky 5-10 percent for a very mild visual downgrade

This, i said this before. 4k and VR users will tickle at the 4090 upgrade but everyone else is just gonna skip. Unless you really want to use DLSS3.0 which seems to be fixed to 40 series right now and seems to be one of the main deciding factors really as to whether you should upgrade or not.

If DLSS 3.0 comes to 30 series (It has limitations i know on 30 series hardware) then its game over.

 

[brostradamus]

I think 850 W will be on the edge. You can have reboots or instability. But i am not sure. Maybe someone here will be know more.

850w is nvdias recommendation for the founders edition, but leather jacket talked abt how the card has this big overclocking headroom so you'd see power - hungry designs from aibs

 

[aoaaron]

This, i said this before. 4k and VR users will tickle at the 4090 upgrade but everyone else is just gonna skip. Unless you really want to use DLSS3.0 which seems to be fixed to 40 series right now and seems to be one of the main deciding factors really as to whether you should upgrade or not.

If DLSS 3.0 comes to 30 series (It has limitations i know on 30 series hardware) then its game over.

Yup I’m so puzzled. The 30 series cards are beasts, specifically 3080 and upwards!

Surely will last a good few years. Heck my puny 2080 is doing well at most things a from a causal perspective.

 

[Jay85]

Couple of quick questions for those in the know and apologies in advance if these have already been well covered:

1. I have a 850w 80+ Gold PSU - Am I likely to need to upgrade to handle a 4090?
2. Have there been any indications on card volumes yet. Is it going to be impossible to source a card like the 30 series launch?

Cheers!

I think you'll be fine tbh, i run a 3090 on a 750w itx psu albeit a very good one and it handles it no problem with gaming, coupled with a overclocked 12700k as well. Not checked what it draws from the wall but last i checked it was somewhere in the region of 500w.

 

[sewerino26]

850w is nvdias recommendation for the founders edition, but leather jacket talked abt how the card has this big overclocking headroom so you'd see power - hungry designs from aibs

Ah ok then

 

[D.P.]

i think people are also confusing those margins as gaming margins, my guess is that it also includes workstation and super-computing business, gaming margins cant be that high because you have to also move a lot of value through low-end items (like the 1660) and then you have oem channels like pre-builts, laptops etc... am pretty sure here that dell, lenovo have an upper hand when negotiating with nvidia

indeed, Nvidia and AMD's reported margins include data center, work station parts that can have margins at over 90%.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Good point - I think I made it previously about diminishing returns and progress getting harder, completely agree with you.

Moore's Law dead Bill?

 

[D.P.]

Great points and thats a huge factor. Right now Nvidia are charging huge money for their new cards, and with marketing tactics being used to dupe customers. The main factor is that we are in a huge cost of living increase. Consumers are going to build 2-3k gaming machines. Their going to buy the used products. Nvidia and AMD absolutely loved making a killing last gen and went on to increase supply and cost to meet massive demand, now all that money they made can be used for R&D, but they have to deal with the fact they have created massive oversupply of really good tech. They would love to hold on to that high price high demand, but their not idiots either, their advisors know full well there is a price celling, especially right now. This is all a tactic to get 30 series stock out the door and selling over price cards to those willing to pay it, and then drop the price to shift large volumes later.

I don't think the cost of living and inflation issues will impact the target market for the high end GPUs. It is the low end and consoles that will loose sales. People buying a 4090 are not worried about choosing to pay bills or feed their kids

 

[Bill Turnip]

Moore's Law dead Bill?

It's dead in consumer gpus. Has been for a while sadly.

 

[Joxeon]

Great points and thats a huge factor. Right now Nvidia are charging huge money for their new cards, and with marketing tactics being used to dupe customers. The main factor is that we are in a huge cost of living increase. Consumers are going to build 2-3k gaming machines. Their going to buy the used products. Nvidia and AMD absolutely loved making a killing last gen and went on to increase supply and cost to meet massive demand, now all that money they made can be used for R&D, but they have to deal with the fact they have created massive oversupply of really good tech. They would love to hold on to that high price high demand, but their not idiots either, their advisors know full well there is a price celling, especially right now. This is all a tactic to get 30 series stock out the door and selling over price cards to those willing to pay it, and then drop the price to shift large volumes later.

This is why AMD will be silly if they try to match Nvidias pricing as all it will do is help nvidia sell off the 3000 series then when nvidia cut 4000 prices it will mean AMD have to do the same and AMD will have lost the initiative and likely even more marketshare.