NVIDIA 4000 Series

[Choimaloy75]

Still waiting for suprim x to ship order at 3:01

me to 15:07 my order.

 

[Deluxe1]

Just had confirmation my Zotac Amp Extreme shipped, Gibbo said they despatch until 7pm.

 

[Nexus18]

Is all this stuff just snake oil now? I can not tell the difference between even the earlier stuff never mind all this 500hz and ultra low latency stuff.

No way can a human process the difference between say 10ms and 20ms.

Ultra low latency does have its place, same for 500hz + screens but we are definitely at a point of diminishing returns imo. Obviously not really aimed at casual gamers but will be of massive benefit for pro cs etc. players.

^^ All I can say is that with Vsync on, I can feel the jouse being elastic as I move around in any game.




Nice so as well as this, spent the last hour and a bit reading up as it appears I missed a few key notes from what vsync/frame cap between game vs driver and Low Latency Mode in NVCPL actualy do, their pros/cons etc.

I found out that whilst Reflex utilises Reflex compatible mice and other hardware, if you don't have a mouse supporting it, then can still benefit from the Reflex low latency at a hardware level if the GPU/Display are up to scratch with Gsync etc too as the Reflex calcs are done in the pipeline anyway.

Also seems the best frame time stability is going to be from enabling the frame cap in the NVCPL rather than in the game's framerate limiter if it offers one. Whilst the game's limiter offers the best latency, the NVCPL method you can enable Low Latency Mode and set it to Ultra which sets the pre render frames to 0 - The CPU works harder as a result, but with today's CPUs that's not much of an issue since I am seeing CPU utilisation far below 50% in all games anyway so the 1% lows should not be affected.

So the takeaway for me perhaps is for the best frame time stability as opposed to tearing since I am not seeing any, which means:

-Frame rate limit set to a few below the monitor's refresh rate in NVCPL. but this introduces latency, so...
- ... Low Latency in NVCPL to Ultra, but if any CPU spikes affecting 1% lows are seen, then turn it off.
-Triple buffering off in game settings anyway
-And where available, Reflex enabled in the game options which overrides the CPL low latency setting where applicable automatically

I think that about covers it.

Blur busters is another one which is very good if you haven't seen it:

G-SYNC 101 - Blur Busters - Page 14

G-SYNC Module The G-SYNC module is a small chip that replaces the display's standard internal scaler, and contains enough onboard memory to hold and process a single frame at a time. The module exploits the vertical blanking interval (the span between the previous and next frame scan) to...

blurbusters.com

G-SYNC 101 - Blur Busters - Page 15

G-SYNC Module The G-SYNC module is a small chip that replaces the display's standard internal scaler, and contains enough onboard memory to hold and process a single frame at a time. The module exploits the vertical blanking interval (the span between the previous and next frame scan) to...

blurbusters.com

Nvidia Control Panel V-SYNC vs. In-game V-SYNC​

While NVCP V-SYNC has no input lag reduction over in-game V-SYNC, and when used with G-SYNC + FPS limit, it will never engage, some in-game V-SYNC solutions may introduce their own frame buffer or frame pacing behaviors, enable triple buffer V-SYNC automatically (not optimal for the native double buffer of G-SYNC), or simply not function at all, and, thus, NVCP V-SYNC is the safest bet.


There are rare occasions, however, where V-SYNC will only function with the in-game option enabled, so if tearing or other anomalous behavior is observed with NVCP V-SYNC (or visa-versa), each solution should be tried until said behavior is resolved.

The answer is frametime variances.


“Frametime” denotes how long a single frame takes to render. “Framerate” is the totaled average of each frame’s render time within a one second period.


At 144Hz, a single frame takes 6.9ms to display (the number of which depends on the max refresh rate of the display, see here), so if the framerate is 144 per second, then the average frametime of 144 FPS is 6.9ms per frame.


In reality, however, frametime from frame to frame varies, so just because an average framerate of 144 per second has an average frametime of 6.9ms per frame, doesn’t mean all 144 of those frames in each second amount to an exact 6.9ms per; one frame could render in 10ms, the next could render in 6ms, but at the end of each second, enough will hit the 6.9ms render target to average 144 FPS per.


So what happens when just one of those 144 frames renders in, say, 6.8ms (146 FPS average) instead of 6.9ms (144 FPS average) at 144Hz? The affected frame becomes ready too early, and begins to scan itself into the current “scanout” cycle (the process that physically draws each frame, pixel by pixel, left to right, top to bottom on-screen) before the previous frame has a chance to fully display (a.k.a. tearing).


G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” allows these instances to occur, even within the G-SYNC range, whereas G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” (what I call “frametime compensation” in this article) allows the module (with average framerates within the G-SYNC range) to time delivery of the affected frames to the start of the next scanout cycle, which lets the previous frame finish in the existing cycle, and thus prevents tearing in all instances.


And since G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” only holds onto the affected frames for whatever time it takes the previous frame to complete its display, virtually no input lag is added; the only input lag advantage G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” has over G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” is literally the tearing seen, nothing more.


For further explanations on this subject see part 1 “Control Panel,” part 4 “Range,” and part 6 “G-SYNC vs. V-SYNC OFF w/FPS Limit” of this article, or read the excerpts below…

 

[Marak]

Is all this stuff just snake oil now? I can not tell the difference between even the earlier stuff never mind all this 500hz and ultra low latency stuff.

No way can a human process the difference between say 10ms and 20ms.

I think you mean 1ms and 2ms.

Telling the difference between 10ms (100fps) and 20ms (50fps) is very easy and clear.

 

[mrk]

Tbh now more than ever will this become a thing people need to consider given how powerful GPUs have become. The 4090 renders 120fps+ at 4K, most 4K monitors are still 60Hz with a growing number hitting 120Hz (or those using TVs as monitors ) - So controlling any visible tearing or stable frametimes is going to be of importance, and not something that is accounted for when installing drivers or game settings out of the box.

I have decided to not change anything in the immediate now, but when I start to see some of those quirks, will then start playing around. At the moment everything works really well, so will keep as is until the time comes!

 

[Jay85]

NVidia released their latest driver 522.25 and it is a big improvement on FPS on cyberpunk 2077.

On my i9 12900K and 3090 Ti Gaming Gigabyte, have 10-15 fps more.

gpu usage with DLSS Quality 99%. RT ULTRA on 1440P. And have 10-15 fps more. Drivers new helped

Will give this a try later! That's quite promising!

 

[sewerino26]

Will give this a try later! That's quite promising!

yeah definitelly better now

 

[ExcitableBoyUK]

Very weird there are no founders edition cards on eBay. With the 3 series it was flooded by this point. Stock must have been so low today.

 

[Caracus2k]

Think I gave managed to secure a 4090 oc Trinity after a very frustrating hour of trying.

Just as well because I sold my 3080 and so have a rig sitting there.

Now shipped...thought I was going to be stuck in graphics card limbo there for a bit!

 

[Jay85]

Very weird there are no founders edition cards on eBay. With the 3 series it was flooded by this point. Stock must have been so low today.

Probably a whole 10 cards available.

I'm honestly not surprised tbh, drip feed is a really good tactic to create demand and if they keep this up FOMO will ensue which ofc will drive prices up.

If i was a retailer i would be inclined to do this as well, not saying that they do.

 

[Tinek]

^^ All I can say is that with Vsync on, I can feel the jouse being elastic as I move around in any game.




Nice so as well as this, spent the last hour and a bit reading up as it appears I missed a few key notes from what vsync/frame cap between game vs driver and Low Latency Mode in NVCPL actualy do, their pros/cons etc.

I found out that whilst Reflex utilises Reflex compatible mice and other hardware, if you don't have a mouse supporting it, then can still benefit from the Reflex low latency at a hardware level if the GPU/Display are up to scratch with Gsync etc too as the Reflex calcs are done in the pipeline anyway.

Also seems the best frame time stability is going to be from enabling the frame cap in the NVCPL rather than in the game's framerate limiter if it offers one. Whilst the game's limiter offers the best latency, the NVCPL method you can enable Low Latency Mode and set it to Ultra which sets the pre render frames to 0 - The CPU works harder as a result, but with today's CPUs that's not much of an issue since I am seeing CPU utilisation far below 50% in all games anyway so the 1% lows should not be affected.

So the takeaway for me perhaps is for the best frame time stability as opposed to tearing since I am not seeing any, which means:

-Frame rate limit set to a few below the monitor's refresh rate (in my case 141fps) in NVCPL. but this introduces latency, so...
- ... Low Latency in NVCPL to Ultra, but if any CPU spikes affecting 1% lows are seen, then turn it off.
-Triple buffering off in game settings anyway
-And where available, Reflex enabled in the game options which overrides the CPL low latency setting where applicable automatically

If Vsync is left off but frame cap is on as above, then you're never gonna go above the max refresh rate rendering speed anyway so negating the need for vsync - So save yourself any input delay introduced by using it.

I think that about covers it.

One thing to remember about NVCPL, as I learned not long ago myself, is that many settings there it only applies to tested and approved by NVIDIA titles. If game hasn't been approved it won't apply certain things, e.g. Ambient Occlusion settings, MFSAA and quite a few other. There's a post on NVIDIA's website that explain what each of these options do and whether they're global or apply only to specific approved titles - worth reading. Too bad I don't have that link on hand now, to send you, but it wasn't hard to find in Google when I tried.

 

[Tinek]

Probably a whole 10 cards available.

I'm honestly not surprised tbh, drip feed is a really good tactic to create demand and if they keep this up FOMO will ensue which ofc will drive prices up.

If i was a retailer i would be inclined to do this as well, not saying that they do.

And to push FOMO people for 3k series if they don't have it yet - which is perfect for NVIDIA, as irrelevant which one people buy, they earn monies.

 

[HRL]

Maybe it's because I'm in Scotland but I'm just not seeing the bulk of these scalpers on Facebook Marketplace. In fact, the only scalper I'm seeing is the one from Bolton.

Well he did say eBay rather than Facebook…

 

[Iron Man]

Ordered a 4090 Aorus Master as a back up card at 3pm which is now shipped but I already have 4090 Suprim being shipped. Not sure what to keep to be honest as I wanted the aorus master as it’s like £250 more but has 1 year extra warranty. Can’t seem to find any reviews on the Aorus Master either. Nice position to be in to be honest though as I didn’t think I would get any card at one point!

 

[VortexA1]

Very weird there are no founders edition cards on eBay. With the 3 series it was flooded by this point. Stock must have been so low today.

yeah, they'll drip feed them I reckon.

 

[RichardH754]

money pending card no

Ordered a 4090 Aorus Master as a back up card at 3pm which is now shipped but I already have 4090 Suprim being shipped. Not sure what to keep to be honest as I wanted the aorus master as it’s like £250 more but has 1 year extra warranty. Can’t seem to find any reviews on the Aorus Master either. Nice position to be in to be honest though as I didn’t think I would get any card at one point!

You want to sell one?

 

[Tinek]

Is all this stuff just snake oil now? I can not tell the difference between even the earlier stuff never mind all this 500hz and ultra low latency stuff.

No way can a human process the difference between say 10ms and 20ms.

The latter is true, but you can perceive frame time jitter on subconscious level (it just feels wrong, even though you can't say why at first). Hence, it's best to have stable frame time even if a bit higher, than jitter all over the place, even if on average much lower. That said, only top trained e-sport young players can say lowering frame time gives them some advantage - for most people it doesn't matter much, aside what I said above.

Personally, I am happy with stable 90+ FPS most of the time, as 60 feels already not fluid enough and 75-80 is getting there, but 90+ is really nice. Anything above 100 is... eh... nice? Just, not sure why. That's on OLED screen with really low latency of pixels, that is. Much slower IPS (and even worse most VA) won't even show any real difference with high refresh rate, as it's just too slow to react anyway. However, high FPS sell very well!

 

[Jay-G25]

Quite an interesting video from Jay2cent, from his finding he is saying an increased power limit ( 600w ) does nothing at all as the cards are voltage limited not power limited ... also performance uplift with the Strix vs FE 1 to 2 fps for £700

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

@Gibbo any idea when you are expecting some more Asus TUF in soon? I was hoping for a FE but the TUF will be fine on a EK water block.

 

[RichardH754]

We’ll, at 14:03 I had the card I wanted in my basket (strix OC) and then whilst trying to checkout all I was getting was gateway errors and time outs.

I simply couldn’t get it to load till about 14:30 at which was getting the message stock not available.

And the wait continues. My old faithful 1080ti keeps going.

same here