• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

NVIDIA 4000 Series

Here's a hot take I've been thinking of the last few weeks. AMD FSR works on any GPU, and in the latest implementations works really well on Nvidia cards, Callisto Protocol being a prime example.

AMD are working on FSR 3 for 2023 which is said to employ similar frame generation tech too, it simply has to in order to keep up with Nvidia. Will AMD's version also support other GPUs like FSR2 does? Granted that AMD cards will probably work better with FSR frame gen, but even if it gives a 20% uplift to non AMD cards, then that's huge and would instantly affect sales of Nvidia 40 series cards forcing Nvidia to reduce prices even further. Why even bother with a 40 series when a used 30 series can get at least 20% (speculation) more thanks to FSR 3 in games that use it?!

There isn't anything special in RDNA3 that shows frame gen hardware dedicated for that purpose, so I suspect we may have some juicy FSR3 news next year that benefits a much wider audience and a reason why AMD has not officially said anything about FSR3 yet during the RDNA3 launch, because if this theory is true, then nobody would bother with RDNA3 either if RDNA2 can get a bigger uplift.
AMD FSR2 works ok but still notably inferior to DLSS. For budget/mid-range that's ok, but at the high end that's a real problem, because high end buyer wants high end results. Particularly as hardware starts steamrolling previous games it becomes a snowball effect with DLSS being the only way to actually get better quality from the AA (and therefore overall image quality), I'm thinking of CP2077 for myself because even with the native TAA there's a shimmer issues that's very aparent (and ofc worse with FSR2) but which is the most alleviated with DLSS. Nevermind also the DLAA support in other games. Ymmv depending on the game but it's still a big selling point and a definite advantage. And if not that, then certainly the wider support it enjoys, despite it being a closed solution. Money talks after all, and it's in more games than AMD's with its "well, here it is, go implement it if you want" approach. So if you ever want to play demanding titles which make even current cards falter, like Control, WD:L etc which haven't had a FSR2 patch, then you only have one option. Performance wise FSR 2 vs DLSS isn't too bad on the higher end because of how costs scale for upscaling, but again not ideal. Not an issue tho imo.

The problem with FSR3 for what you're saying is that it will also be notably inferior to DLSS3 but not only are we talking qualitative differences, but also think about the performance. On ADA you have a specific hardware unit to accelerate and handle it, which as we can see from tests means no other part of the card is used which would otherwise take away from them being used for rendering, so that's the perfect solution - best quality, best performance. Now think of RDNA 3, it doesn't have any such hardware unit, so how's it going to work? And if it's open source & widely compatible, then how's it going to work on everything? And so it's clear it's going to run on shaders, so that's a performance penalty. Just like with FSR 2 which had a minor but still present performance disadvantage vs DLSS, which actually was magnified on older/weaker cards, but hey that's the price for compatibility.

Ultimately the biggest problem is that all these end up as compounding disadvantages. You stack worse FSR2 quality, on top of worse FSR3 quality, on top of worse FSR2 performance, on top of worse FSR3 performance, on top of higher latency (Reflex > anti-lag), on top of weaker hardware overall, and in aggregate it becomes a BIG issue. So how cheap is AMD going to price its cards to make up for all this lost ground (to say nothing of the fact that they never have these solutions out on day 1, let alone innovating and beating Nvidia to the punch).

The sad truth is that Radeon's slowly gotten worse over the years and all of these things accumulated, so what used to be a contested battle is now clearly a clean sweep by Nvidia. So that's why people will buy Nvidia over AMD, even with a successful FSR3.

As for them not releasing it because they fear for RDNA 3 sales, nah, they simply don't have it ready, and they sold out of RDNA 2 so that's not an issue either (not that it ever was, given the limited quantity). Ultimately it's still (RDNA 3) AMD vs Nvidia, as always, and the latter have released DLSS3, so if AMD's just sitting on it then it's only hurting itself.
 
But the FSR quality isn't worse in various games. Death Stranding for example having recently played that which has FSR1, FSR2, DLSS2, XeSS, and my findings were that FSR looked overall the best balance, whilst XeSS looked /the/ best - Neither outperformed the other for fps by a margin that is worth drawing a chart for, so it all came down to image quality, and FSR came above DLSS in that game.

Nobody knows anything about FSR3 yet so nobody can say if it will be good or bad, but if the trend for FSR2 in recent times is anything to go by, then it can only be a good thing that continues to get better, regardless of what card brand you have.

Edit* And that in turn might force Nvidia to actually unlock some frame gen capability in 30 series since the 40 series sales shows that most people would rather buy the older cards for cheaper than pay these £loll prices.
 
Last edited:
But the FSR quality isn't worse in various games. Death Stranding for example having recently played that which has FSR1, FSR2, DLSS2, XeSS, and my findings were that FSR looked overall the best balance, whilst XeSS looked /the/ best - Neither outperformed the other for fps by a margin that is worth drawing a chart for, so it all came down to image quality, and FSR came above DLSS in that game.

Nobody knows anything about FSR3 yet so nobody can say if it will be good or bad, but if the trend for FSR2 in recent times is anything to go by, then it can only be a good thing that continues to get better, regardless of what card brand you have.
Great Post
 
I tried running FSR against DLSS on a few games, and found that the high levels of FSR were fairly comparable to DLSS, but the lower down the scale you went, the better DLSS looked, as in quality level settings for both looked fairly similar, but performance levels definitely worked better on DLSS.

I see points of both @mrk and @Poneros, but frame generation from both sides will need to be added to games first, which will not be a quick process. This will also take longer with FSR 3, and by the time this starts happening in earnest, you're probably on to the next generation anyway, theoretically with high base performance.
 
That's true, with the rumoured 50 series performance being what 2-4x more than 40 series, that's an immense amount of raw power and if it's true that it has dedicated denoiser accelerators for ray tracing, then in the next year we are likely to see +60fps path tracing without having to use any frame generation across the board.

Whatever happens one thing is clear, GFX hardware will be very interesting in the next 12-18 months.
 
rumoured 50 series performance being what 2-4x more than 40 series
I'd have thought this will come down to about 40-50 percent by the time we actually get to release, however. Notable, but the rumours will fire everyone up for a while yet before managing expectations.

I'd be expecting slightly better comparative movement on price though - 3000 to 4000 was ridiculous, 4000 to 5000 will probably be a much better looking proposition purely because this gen is SO expensive. Not necessarily a good proposition, merely a better looking one.
 
Last edited:
I can see why the 40 series price is so high, Hardware Unboxed mentioned this in a video recently. Nvidia went back to TSMC from Samsung, and TSMC chip prices have become much higher over the last year or two, they're not gonna give Nvidia a deal for coming back, and Nvidia will gladly pass the price increase onto consumers as we all know rather than do use a solid.

So yeah I can see that from 40 to 50 series the price levelling out is much more likely than what we saw with Samsung fabbed 30 series to TSMC fabbed 40 series.
 
FSR 3 was a knee jerk reaction by amd just so they didn't leave their customers hanging around for some news/announcement like they did with FSR, I doubt they even had any code done at the time of showing "FSR 3" tbph.... Either way, again, if we look at history, chances are when they deliver a solution, it won't be on par first day and it will be several months/1-2 years until it reaches nvidias quality by which time I suspect frame generation/dlss 3 will be in a good chunk of games. IIRC, nvidia are providing developers with their streamline solution to be able to integrate dlss, frame generation and reflex all in one go.

It will be interesting to see how amd deal with the latency and IQ too, I fully expect it is possible to get very good results by not having to rely on special hardware like nvidia but that will take some time especially if what has been said about nvidia working on frame generation for 6 years is true....

FSR 2.2+ is great now and would happily use it if dlss is not an option but if given the choice, I'll still pick dlss as it still does look better overall imo especially as you use lesser presets than the quality offerings, which is becoming more of a requirement in some recent titles.


A great watch, don't get ripped of @TNA ;) :p :D


All in all, unless we see more of must play/good games in coming months, I am firmly waiting until price drops or/and next gen now.
 
Last edited:
Dead Space Remake for me in Jan, and Witcher will no doubt have another patch by Feb - Maybe they will have 50% fixed some CPU limitation issues unlocking a firther 5-10fps? One can hope....

I have a feeling Dead Space Remake is gonna look and run great maxed out on last gen hardware easily. Frostbite isn't known for its issues like Unreal and others tend to be, so fingers crossed.
 
Hmm wonder if I can put one through my books for vat.
Now what could I need it for on a commercial fishing boat :rolleyes::D

Perhaps you’re developing a new type of 3D rendered sonar to improve your fishing capability?

Well it sort of sounds genuine at least.
 
Back
Top Bottom