nVidia 8800GT + Antec Quattro PSU = Lack Of Power!

[JohnnyG]

There are many issues that have been brought up in this thread, so let me try to tackle them all.

Power usage is determined by load and efficiency, not capacity. If you take a 75% efficient 500 Watt PSU and hook it up to a 400 Watt load, you'll pull 500 Watts out of the wall. Take the same computer and put an 80% efficient 1 Kilowatt PSU on it and you'll pull only 480 Watts out of the wall. Also, with the larger PSU, you'll be running an easy 50% load so the PSU will probably last longer, and the fan will run slower, hence quieter. That's the reasoning behind having some overcapacity when you choose a PSU. 100% overcapacity like this example is, of course, overkill.

Now, if you run a 550 Watt computer with a 550 Watt PSU, the PSU won't last very long. If you don't know how many watts you need, you can kill even a rugged PSU when the last thing you want to do is waste time and money on an RMA. A little knowledge can help.

I'm surprised to see a lack of accurate wattage information in this thread. Most OC'ers and performance builders will use Watt calculators as a tool to get a close estimate of the required wattage of their rig. Then you actually know what size PSU you need. The calculator I use is at
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/powercalc.jsp

Graphics cards do not "communicate" per se, however they do interact with the power supply. There is no signal similar to PG when dealing with PCI-E. The card must require a minimum load from the psu rail within a certain number of milliseconds in order for the psu to balance loads and provide the power the GPU needs. It's not any more difficult than that.

Our design fix in response to these problems was not to fix a 'defect' in our PSU. It was to adjust our reaction to be more tolerant of certain load timing issues.

These power supplies were tested by NVIDIA themselves before we released them, and they passed all of NVIDIA's tests. We could not use the SLI logo if we had failed any of their tests. Any Quattro power supply has enough power to run a pair of 8800GTXs without breaking a sweat. There is going to be variation in your individual card, but 8800GTX cards use a slightly different amount of power than the 2900. When you do your rig's Watt calculation, try subbing in a 2900 instead of the 8800GTX and see what happens...

To see an independent evaluation of this PSU with a pair of power-hungry 2900's, please check out
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/
and check out the head to head comparison with the Silverstone 850. My favorite quote is "Even though both the TPQ and the DA850 came out smelling like roses, the Quattro came out smelling like a whole field of roses."

Welcome to the forums, please familiarise yourself with the FAQ and enjoy your stay

 

[AntecRep]

8800XXX

Hi Flying Gribble,

Thanks for speaking up. I had no way to know who it was that brought us here. Yes this link was provided from support. We try to monitor any issue with our products to see if it is a real problem or a vocal minority. Even with the large quantity of Quattros sold, you can go around to each support tech and ask them how many 8800XXX cards they've been asked about and get an answer in low single digits.

I would be interested in an answer to your question about if the cards are all Inno's.

A lot of people are fine with PSU's on this forum. Just because a few people are having problems with your PSU and GT's doesn't mean that people are misinformed or lacking in knowledge on these boards.

I simply did not see a single post where anybody listed the power requirements of their rig and there are misinformed statements in this thread. One of the things about me is I want to be corrected if I'm in error. Please be a friend and don't let me stay misinformed; I'm trying to do the same for Antec users on the web.

The NeoHE/ASUS incompatibility was brought up, and the comparison is actually apt. The Intel power specification had an area that was not strictly defined and an incompatibility occurred as a result. We made a design change to the NeoHE to be more tolerant of timing issues and everything was fine. Antec is one of four companies that ASUS mobos had trouble with. We are barely mentioned in the SPCR news article that explains the issue ASUS had with high-efficiency power supplies here:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/news652.html

Since no Quattro ever made has a problem with any video card ever made that doesn't have an 8800 in its name...

sargatanas gets it:

What i meant was people saying it doesn't have enough power. It clearly does so its just compatibility problems.

With the vast majority of 8800 cards and Quattros working together peacefully, there is no need for a recall. We stand behind the product and, if necessary, will send you a modded unit.

 

[Flying Gribble]

I would be interested in an answer to your question about if the cards are all Inno's.

Not sure about the folks here, but I did see somebody with an EVGA 8800GT appear to have to the same problem. It wasn't identified as this, but has the same symptoms: here and the guy at hardwarecanucks had the same with an XFX. Those brands haven't been in stock at OCuk.

I held off getting an 8800GT so it's not a problem for me directly at the moment.

 

[soyoDragon]

Hi Flying Gribble,

Thanks for speaking up. I had no way to know who it was that brought us here. Yes this link was provided from support. We try to monitor any issue with our products to see if it is a real problem or a vocal minority. Even with the large quantity of Quattros sold, you can go around to each support tech and ask them how many 8800XXX cards they've been asked about and get an answer in low single digits.

I would be interested in an answer to your question about if the cards are all Inno's.


I simply did not see a single post where anybody listed the power requirements of their rig and there are misinformed statements in this thread. One of the things about me is I want to be corrected if I'm in error. Please be a friend and don't let me stay misinformed; I'm trying to do the same for Antec users on the web.

The NeoHE/ASUS incompatibility was brought up, and the comparison is actually apt. The Intel power specification had an area that was not strictly defined and an incompatibility occurred as a result. We made a design change to the NeoHE to be more tolerant of timing issues and everything was fine. Antec is one of four companies that ASUS mobos had trouble with. We are barely mentioned in the SPCR news article that explains the issue ASUS had with high-efficiency power supplies here:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/news652.html

Since no Quattro ever made has a problem with any video card ever made that doesn't have an 8800 in its name...

sargatanas gets it:


With the vast majority of 8800 cards and Quattros working together peacefully, there is no need for a recall. We stand behind the product and, if necessary, will send you a modded unit.

Hi AntecRep


I sent my PSU with my RMA on monday cost an arm and a leg in shipping , ive heard nothing off antec and getting alittle worryed , it was sent next day Special Delivery whats your contact turn around contact time for RMA's

Thanks

 

[david25]

I'm surprised to see a lack of accurate wattage information in this thread. Most OC'ers and performance builders will use Watt calculators as a tool to get a close estimate of the required wattage of their rig. Then you actually know what size PSU you need. The calculator I use is at
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/powercalc.jsp

This calculator seems to add lots of safety/headroom, it recommended 185w
for my system, however measured at the wall, it uses 60w idle and 120w loaded.

What you really need is a £10 meter from popular electrical retailers, you will be surprised about much you dont use (unless OC'd/SLI'ed)

 

[james.miller]

This calculator seems to add lots of safety/headroom, it recommended 185w
for my system, however measured at the wall, it uses 60w idle and 120w loaded.

What you really need is a £10 meter from popular electrical retailers, you will be surprised about much you dont use (unless OC'd/SLI'ed)

indeed wattage calculators are way out. its best not to use them at all.

 

[AntecRep]

So you would put a 120-Watt PSU on a system that pulls 120 Watts? I thought I covered that...
If you told me your system pulled 120 Watts, I might recommend something around 180 Watts too. That would put the PSU at a 66% load that should last forever, run quiet, be efficient and not overheat. What's wrong with the recommendation?
Also, I just love the idea of buying £1000 of parts and assembling them so that you can use a £10 meter to find out if you are using the right power supply. I have a Wattmeter too, but I hardly ever use it on computers. I trust the Java calculator and get the size that's appropriate to the machine. The alternative is to guess and then use the meter once the thing is running. Are you really going to change the PSU at that point? I used the meter a couple times to check the calculator and couldn't find any problem with the recommended value. Now I just click and go.

 

[ademcg]

Well, Can we get an Enermax Rep in coz I am having exactly the same trouble with my Enermax Galaxy 850 W unit.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10543737&postcount=1

...I wish I had seen this thread before wasting around 40 man hours.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10537840&postcount=8


The worst thing its doing is how it interfaces with the graphics card.


If I use the drivers that came with the Gigabyte 8800GT the PCI-Express bus speed shows as 0x in the nvidia control System info panel, everything works, [no crashes or anything like that] but my 3d06 score is 7594 (Way low, should be over 10K) but games actually run which is nice .

If I load the latest nvidia drivers for Vista 64 (including the Beta ones) it shows the X16 PCI-Express bus speed:

But I can not run 3Dmark 06 (it hangs on black screen) and if I play a game (Bioshock) I only get as far as the intro plane crash, with slow juttery FPS then it crashes and reboots.

some state I should try an XP Pro install...hence going to XP Pro (used for many years on my previous rig with no issues).
otherwise Imight just RMA the board??

I have changed the Bios of the board, flashed to the most recent beta available (its early days for the board).

I have installed the chipset drivers from the disc supplied with the board, again, I don't think there are newer ones available for the X38 chipset on the intel site.


so I was stuck with a machine that works, but only at 50% potential graphically (not what I want with Crysis or COD4) or I have a machine that simply doesn't work graphically, with the latest nvidia drivers.

Now installed XP PRo and same story....What the hell am I going to do now ??

wanders off to bed for a cry.....

 

[Big.Wayne]

What the hell am I going to do now ??

Hi ademcg, well you could try a new PSU?

 

[The Running Man]

hmm i think that Antec rep is going the wrong way about this in terms of multimeters etc.

to put it simply any Antec powersupply capable of 600w plus should be able to power 99.9% of the systems on this forum. Even in SLI.

Supposing that they are the quality that Antec sell them as being.

For example, i have quite a high spec rig, and did have a 8800GTX with OC'ed E6600 etc etc running on a Corsair 520W PSU. which must have had a comparable draw to the rigs in the OP and beyond.

to suggest that an 850, or even a 1000w PSU cannot power such a rig does infer that the quality is not what Antec would purport it to be, or that these PSU's are massively Overrated in terms of marketing speil, and similarly overpriced.

 

[dotted]

I'm in the same situation with a NorthQ 1kW PSU and a BFG OC 8800GT, but using the Xtreme-G 167.26 driver i get good performance.

 

[Flying Gribble]

hmm i think that Antec rep is going the wrong way about this in terms of multimeters etc.

If you read it carefully, and check around the other threads mentioned, it's nothing to do with the power that the PSU is capable of supplying. The TPQ850 has been certified by NVidia as handling two 8800 Ultra's in SLI and can also multiple HD2900XT's in Crossfire. It's a startup timing issue with the GTX/GT and some of the TPQ's. It doesn't happen with the Ultra or any other card as far as I can tell.

My reading of what's being said is that the card runs at a lower speed if the PSU doesn't supply a certain amount of power within some unspecified time of starting up. The tolerance allowed varies according to type of graphics card and some PSU's can meet the tolerances and others can't. There is no defined standard for the period - hence the confusion. I've seen several other makes of PSU mentioned in dispatches as having this problem - it's not limited to Antec. If you read the reviews of the TPQ (e.g. hardwarecanucks or custompc), it seems to be very high quality and very stable - which is what persuaded me to buy it in the first place.

 

[Flying Gribble]

What the hell am I going to do now ?.

As Big.Wayne said, try another PSU, or as one of the other threads suggest, firstly prove that it's the problem by powering just the graphics card off a separate 250W PSU and use your existing one to power the rest of the system. The Run'N'Gun thread has pics.

 

[MHayes]

Sorry I can't help so I am just going to Brag.

Enermax and Seasonic here. > cheapo Antec.

 

[Flying Gribble]

Sorry I can't help so I am just going to Brag.

Enermax and Seasonic here. > cheapo Antec.

Did you actually read the thread? Obviously not.

This post shows that somebody with an Enermax Galaxy 850 has the same problem.

 

[Big.Wayne]

I can't help

Obviously not

Never fear MHayes, when the chips are down for you and you really need technical support lets see how you like it when people make unhelpful replies to your posts!

Normally if you lack the technical insight to make a constructive comment but you wanna join in the thread then try something along the lines of moral support for the unhappy sods who are sitting at home struggling to get their uber PC working properly, its not a nice place to be.

 

[ademcg]

As Big.Wayne said, try another PSU, or as one of the other threads suggest, firstly prove that it's the problem by powering just the graphics card off a separate 250W PSU and use your existing one to power the rest of the system. The Run'N'Gun thread has pics.

unfortunately I am not a PC shop so don't have spare units floating about at home
And I am reluctant to spend anymore money problem solving this, it has already cost me over 40 man hours (a price on ones spare time ??) plus another £80 on a copy of Win XP Pro.

I have been in contact with Enermax CS, they are willing to take mine back and give me a brand new one, that is pre tested on a GTX in exchange.

It just means no system for a few days while it all goes on.

 

[Flying Gribble]

that is pre tested on a GTX

If possible, get them to pre test it on a GT, just in case....

 

[woozy2k7]

i use a 625W Jeantec :|

had to get that when my Hyper failed

 

[ademcg]

If possible, get them to pre test it on a GT, just in case....

I asked that, they haven't got a GT..just like lots of people I guess