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nVidia 8800GT + Antec Quattro PSU = Lack Of Power!

found some more info on the net, constructed an email to Enermax offering the services of my GT:

Hi Allan,

Thanks for the replies today, I am really concerned however that a replacement unit will do just the same unless it is tested with a 8800 GT card at your end.

I am not necessarily jumping to conclusions, afterall, I am a research Scientist and tend to problem solve systematically and research as much as I can to draw any conclusion.

This Link:
http://www.overclock.net/power-supplies/250803-antec-quattro-850-8800gtx-issue-resolved.html

Is a very interesting case.

I think you haven't heard from any other customers yet as it seems to be more prevelant in 8800GT cards, which are in short supply at the moment, they are slowly being stocked and more and more people are reporting the exact same problem as I have highlighted to you today.

Antec units being very popular seem the worst hit as they obviously make up a large segment of end users, not everyone can or wants to pay a premium for a nice new Enermax Galaxy PSU like me.

Still, I think there is a serious problem and one that needs investigating, looks like it could be associated with the timing of a signal to the graphics card, from the PSU, having sufficient power to overcome the fault condition seems to bypass the Graphics card want to throttle back and report the fault condition, perhaps that is why some PSU's of the same brand and model may differ as each PSU will deliver slightly different 12V rail performance.

If you are willing to arrange that Special delivery you spoke of (unusual circumstances) and insure for my Graphics card, I can arrange for my PSU and graphics card to be sent to you for testing....I have a sneaking feeling I will not be the first to report this fault to Enermax,...there is a ground swell of fault reporting of this error over the net...and its gathering momemtum.

Please get in touch to sort out the details.

Regards

Adrian McGuinness

Support <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello Adrian

My apologies that you’re experiencing these problems, I would not jump to the conclusions that we have a problem with our PSU’s though.

This is the first report we have had of any incompatibility issues with our PSU and the 8800GTX and GT.

Seeing as you are the only user that has contacted us with this issue, I would imagine you simply have a faulty unit.

I myself am running a 1000W Galaxy with SLi GTX’s and have never experienced a problem.

Please can you provide me with the URL’s of the documentation you have mentioned?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: CGI-Mailer [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 23 November 2007 09:18
To: Support
Subject: Enermax: Technical support
 
AntecRep said:
I simply did not see a single post where anybody listed the power requirements of their rig and there are misinformed statements in this thread. One of the things about me is I want to be corrected if I'm in error. Please be a friend and don't let me stay misinformed; I'm trying to do the same for Antec users on the web.

The NeoHE/ASUS incompatibility was brought up, and the comparison is actually apt. The Intel power specification had an area that was not strictly defined and an incompatibility occurred as a result. We made a design change to the NeoHE to be more tolerant of timing issues and everything was fine. Antec is one of four companies that ASUS mobos had trouble with. We are barely mentioned in the SPCR news article that explains the issue ASUS had with high-efficiency power supplies here:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/news652.html

Since no Quattro ever made has a problem with any video card ever made that doesn't have an 8800 in its name...

;)sargatanas gets it:


With the vast majority of 8800 cards and Quattros working together peacefully, there is no need for a recall. We stand behind the product and, if necessary, will send you a modded unit.
Click to expand...

Excellent post and I didn't mean to be abrupt :). I meant that there are some very knowledgeable people on these boards regarding PSU's as I've had some valuable information passed on to me from Fornowagainn (thanks) as well as some other people. I didn't understand multi 12v rails as I thought they all added up (4x 20amps = 80amps) but then I got told how to work out the true ampage of PSU's as well as some other very useful tips.

I didn't meant to come across like that though, sorry. Must have been a bad day :o.
 
Flying Gribble said:
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you ;)
Click to expand...

Apparently they can deliver the items back the very same day...lol, let see what he comes back with. My initial thought was one of well lets prove this once and for all...but I see your point and it worries me.

This is a real can of worms and potentially a bannana skin for either nvidia or suposid "powerful and certified " PSU manufacturers...I chose Enermax Galaxy for its robust reviews and apparantly stable 12V rails...I now am completely lost, either I RMA my current unit and get a like for like (possibly get a unit performing the same) or I buy a PSU that has yet to be implicated, Corsair 620W ??

Either way my new build is in no shape to be used for its intended purpose i.e. gaming and I have spent good money on XP Pro and Vista Ultimate 64 bit OS's during the investigation into what was causing my problems, plus all the late nights (3am finish last night, up for work at 7am):o trying to sort it out.
 
Flying Gribble, something you said has got me thinking and I think I have solved the mystery of the none working 8800GT's and GTX's.:D

Like my old Physics teacher said, ignore the volts, its the Amps that will get ya !:D

Never a truer word said, this industry and punters alike (especially gamers) are obsessed with Watts.....they should pay closer attention to the AMPS


I have just inspected every inch of the 8800 GT manual I have here and there is no word of power requirements...a little odd I thought.

So I took a magnifying glass to the box (seriously its really small print) ;) and there is was in black and white:

"minimum 400W or greater system power supply (with a minimum 12V current rating of 26A )

My brand new and mighty Enermax Galaxy has 5 12 V rails, each pushing out a peak of...24 amps obsessed with Wattage, you think 850 will do the trick as long as its a stable delivery on the 12V lines and doesn't fluctuate.

I have learned something tonight, :o I hope a few more peeps have too

Amps = Win

Watt = Bragging rights.


Now have finished downloading the latest forceware and I wonder if nVidia have realised they have out specced a large number of peeps on the QT and managed to "tweak" these cards via the driver to demand less AMPS and not to go into throttle mode ?
Will see soon enough. :)

Either way I will be saving some money and getting rid of the large Enermax for somthing more petite but has it where it counts....
 
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Hmm, not certain that's the problem. The Antec TPQ850 box says it has 4 12v rails at max 18A each, but it's easily running my X1900XT. That apparently needs a 450W PSU with 30A on the 12V rail. The TPQ box says that the +12V combined max output is 768W (64A).
 
Flying Gribble said:
Hmm, not certain that's the problem. The Antec TPQ850 box says it has 4 12v rails at max 18A each, but it's easily running my X1900XT. That apparently needs a 450W PSU with 30A on the 12V rail. The TPQ box says that the +12V combined max output is 768W (64A).
Click to expand...

hmmm, perhaps it depends on what rail it puts the lions share of the AMPs, if its not the 6 pin Gfx line then you will bee stumped in anycase ??

My Enermax has a combined 408 (34 AMps) but its shared, not all on single 6 pin graphics line.

Just a thought:o
 
I had a similar problem where I was getting 5000 in 3dmark06 and Nvidia contorl panel was showing my PCIE as 1, after installing my NX8800GT using forceware 169.02 drivers. I installed the forceware beta drivers 169.12 and got 12018 in 3dmark06. Give this a go before you buy a new PSU!!
 
so why are the 8800gts ok with the 850 quattro? im running the bfg oc 640mb gts and its fine also fine when overclocked i also run my old x1900xt overclocked fine surely the newer cards are supposed 2 pull less power?
 
krisbutler said:
so why are the 8800gts ok with the 850 quattro? im running the bfg oc 640mb gts and its fine also fine when overclocked i also run my old x1900xt overclocked fine surely the newer cards are supposed 2 pull less power?
Click to expand...

See earlier post
Flying Gribble said:
If you read it carefully, and check around the other threads mentioned, it's nothing to do with the power that the PSU is capable of supplying. The TPQ850 has been certified by NVidia as handling two 8800 Ultra's in SLI and can also multiple HD2900XT's in Crossfire. It's a startup timing issue with the GTX/GT and some of the TPQ's. It doesn't happen with the Ultra or any other card as far as I can tell.

My reading of what's being said is that the card runs at a lower speed if the PSU doesn't supply a certain amount of power within some unspecified time of starting up. The tolerance allowed varies according to type of graphics card and some PSU's can meet the tolerances and others can't. There is no defined standard for the period - hence the confusion. I've seen several other makes of PSU mentioned in dispatches as having this problem - it's not limited to Antec. If you read the reviews of the TPQ (e.g. hardwarecanucks or custompc), it seems to be very high quality and very stable - which is what persuaded me to buy it in the first place.
Click to expand...
 
dq1 said:
I had a similar problem where I was getting 5000 in 3dmark06 and Nvidia contorl panel was showing my PCIE as 1, after installing my NX8800GT using forceware 169.02 drivers. I installed the forceware beta drivers 169.12 and got 12018 in 3dmark06. Give this a go before you buy a new PSU!!
Click to expand...


Tried this and no joy.

I have now tried the 8800GT in my old Rig running a 600W Seasonic PSU and it worked just fine and Dandy...this would support the theory that certain PSU's just can't deliver the correct power at the correct time for the GT to function properly.

However, if this varies from unit, to unit of the exact same make and specification, how the hell can you RMA it and expect the replacement to work?
 
Big.Wayne said:
get a full refund and buy a Corsair HX620W and start enjoying your life again!
Click to expand...

You know...I think I will do just that all this has taken the fun out of my new build...I see it sat their powerd down all the panels off and I feel sick.

I was so enjoying it until the point I suffered from this reoccurring nightmare.
 
ademcg said:
I was so enjoying it until the point I suffered from this reoccurring nightmare.
Click to expand...
Yup I can understand that, I had a real hassle working out the problem myself and as I had just bought a new 8800GT I wasn't gonna hang about so as soon as I found the cause of the issue I legged it out to the shops the very next day and bought the Corsair HX620W. Did it all on the credit card but got my refund for the Quattro before my bill was issued so that worked out well.

As long as you are involved in self builds there is always the chance that every now and then you will encounter a hardware mismatch like this, I've had a fair share in the past but they have always been sorted and when you get it sorted you will feel much better. . . .good luck!
 
Well, I must say, Antec have come out of this with more kudos than Enermax.

Their Technical support have acused me of spreading rumors of a negative nature about their products, when in reality the products have facilitated negative experiences on their own.

http://www.overclock.net/power-supplies/250803-antec-quattro-850-8800gtx-issue-resolved.html [See page 5]

http://www.clunk.org.uk/forums/hardware/228-enermax-galaxy-psu-x38-compatibility-issue.html

The reality is that the users are trying to solve the problems they have encountered thourgh the sharing of real life experiences first hand with their kit.

How dare we state that their product has failed. :o

Typical, instead of recognising there is an actual problem, bury the head in the sand and alienate the user to the point where they begin to wonder if they are the roote cause of the problem.:mad:

I would post the actual response from the Enermax Tech support, but I will wait until my RMA has gone through...they are a little touchy to say the least !
 
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