Nvidia disables PhysX when ATI card is present with an Nvidia card for windows 7.

layte · 12 Aug 2009 at 15:04

ebilcake said:
Physx is NOT though, it's owned by nvidia. Why do you guys have dificultly understanding this?

It's foolish to expect them to support this with competitors products. Quite simply, if you want physx you have to own an nvidia card, not only for physx but also as your primary card.

This is morally right? no, but this is business.

There is a difference between not supporting something, and purposely disabling a feature if you detect a competitors device. Once of these has the possibility of getting you into a spot of trouble.

Microsoft pulled something similar with DR-DOS many years ago. I believe they ended up settling things out of court.

Monkeynut · 12 Aug 2009 at 15:34

ebilcake said:
You do that, do be honest if you already have an ATI as primary anyway their probably not losing much.

But don't worry hardware physics will come to ATI soon enough when a true open physics api becomes available.

I was planning to choose Nvidia for my next card as they currently have better Linux drivers, but when they're playing russian roulette with features on their Windows drivers, I can't be certain their Linux drivers will stay good either.

ebilcake · 12 Aug 2009 at 16:18

layte said:
There is a difference between not supporting something, and purposely disabling a feature if you detect a competitors device. Once of these has the possibility of getting you into a spot of trouble.

Microsoft pulled something similar with DR-DOS many years ago. I believe they ended up settling things out of court.

But there reason is valid; they can't guarantee compatibility or quality of the experience when combined with products from another company.

We all know its BS but it will hold up.

queamin · 12 Aug 2009 at 16:25

Good old nvidia they don't want you to buy a cheap card for physx or use your old card with a ati card,that is a good way to alienate some customers,but to be honest they like shooting them self in the foot lately.

layte · 12 Aug 2009 at 16:31

ebilcake said:
But there reason is valid; they can't guarantee compatibility or quality of the experience when combined with products from another company.

We all know its BS but it will hold up.

I do not accept your claims that disabling a feature if you detect a competitors device is valid. Nvidia are well within their rights to say anybody who does so is doing it with the understanding that they have no support or guarantee of operation. Purposely disabling features if you detect a competitors device is likely to bring interest from various regulatory bodies.

Once again I refer you to my example of Microsoft disabling Windows 3.1 if it detected you were using DR-DOS.

OrphanBoy · 12 Aug 2009 at 16:38

It still doesn't make any sense since the PhysX part is still running on the NV hardware - their excuse would only make sense if the code could run on all GPUs. Then they've got a reason to block other hardware, since they can't support their code running on all equipment.

TAC4U · 12 Aug 2009 at 16:55

layte said:
I do not accept your claims that disabling a feature if you detect a competitors device is valid. Nvidia are well within their rights to say anybody who does so is doing it with the understanding that they have no support or guarantee of operation. Purposely disabling features if you detect a competitors device is likely to bring interest from various regulatory bodies.

Exactly. It's just like Apple actively going out of their way to stop Palm devices passing themselves off as iPods in order to interact with iTunes - Apple claims they can't guarantee compatibility but that's very different to actively blocking it. I wish nVidia would just sell their video cards based upon their merits and not try to use PhysX to screw over the competition. Actively crippling their hardware seems like a pretty desperate move and suggests a lack of faith in their own graphics offerings.

AMG · 12 Aug 2009 at 17:44

Yeah Nvida have the right to change the compatibility etc etc as its there or is it o.O its actually not Nvidas, Nvida only brought the parent company out. Meaning that everything that company own Nvida now have the rights for, thats no argument, however what is follows below. So basicly all they done is shot themselfs again by thier attuided as physics did work with a ATI card rendering and I can't really see the difference which card is rendering.

anyways what you guys are missing (some of you) is that Nvida are trying to force us into buying their GPUs to do both rendering and physics. in my personal option that is out of order, they can NOT force anyone to put their cards in their machines, that computer is yours not theirs. I can't see the harm in a Nvidia card doing the physics, at least you brought one of thier cards even through its not for rendering. With this the likely hood of us buying a nvidia card is very low (unless you plan too anyway by default you pefer Nvida to ATI or just a green party fanboi)

I might on purpose buy a ATI card again, rather than Nvidia. the customer always wins

jigger · 12 Aug 2009 at 18:34

ebilcake said:
Physx is NOT though, it's owned by nvidia. Why do you guys have dificultly understanding this?

It's foolish to expect them to support this with competitors products. Quite simply, if you want physx you have to own an nvidia card, not only for physx but also as your primary card.

This is morally right? no, but this is business.

So it's OK to **** your customers and developers over if your making a profit or life hard for the completion ? Nice attitude.

ebilcake · 12 Aug 2009 at 18:57

jigger said:
So it's OK to **** your customers and developers over if your making a profit or life hard for the completion ? Nice attitude.

I never said that, I clearly said morally this isn’t fair on consumers but the fact remains physx belongs to nvidia and it only runs on nvidia hardware so they can do as they please regardless of what you or anyone else thinks as they currently hold all the cards.

AMG said:
anyways what you guys are missing (some of you) is that Nvida are trying to force us into buying their GPUs to do both rendering and physics. in my personal option that is out of order, they can NOT force anyone to put their cards in their machines, that computer is yours not theirs. I can't see the harm in a Nvidia card doing the physics, at least you brought one of thier cards even through its not for rendering. With this the likely hood of us buying a nvidia card is very low (unless you plan too anyway by default you pefer Nvida to ATI or just a green party fanboi)

I might on purpose buy a ATI card again, rather than Nvidia. the customer always wins

Their hardly forcing you to buy nvidia cards, you can always just buy ATI and forget about GPU accelerated physics for the time being, your choice.

jigger · 12 Aug 2009 at 19:16

But that is exactly what your saying.

I have just been told my Nvidia physics will stop working from now on as I happen to have a card made by another company in my system. Nvidia will only let me use my physics again if I use all nvidia cards regardless. That is forcing me to use nvidia products as I have no choice as the physics was purchased for a dedicated single job.

labby12 · 12 Aug 2009 at 19:35

ATI is working with Havok and their Havok FX™ effects physics engine..

couldn't ati make it 1 card not 2 and bring it more up to date wouldn't ati come out the victor as havok can run off a CPU or maybe they are and not telling anyone thats why ati arint really bothered about it.

dunno just a thought

Rroff · 12 Aug 2009 at 19:43

Phsyx can run off CPU as well... but advanced physics effects won't run at playable performance on a CPU regardless of whether your using Physx, Havok, bullet, tokamak, newton or whatever.

I wouldn't hold out any hope of seeing hardware physics on ATI any time soon.

AMG · 12 Aug 2009 at 19:57

jigger said:
But that is exactly what your saying.

I have just been told my Nvidia physics will stop working from now on as I happen to have a card made by another company in my system. Nvidia will only let me use my physics again if I use all nvidia cards regardless. That is forcing me to use nvidia products as I have no choice as the physics was purchased for a dedicated single job.

thats my point, anyone who thinks other wise needs to go to see a doctor cos its the biggest hint (buy our products than you can have physics) that is basicly what they are saying they are attempting to fool you into buying their products with physics X although it has not really got a wide market, lowering thier prices failed so they are using another flawed feature to try to get people to buy their cards (although they was for the sole purpose of physics o.O) what the hell.

ebilcake · 12 Aug 2009 at 21:03

jigger said:
But that is exactly what your saying.

I have just been told my Nvidia physics will stop working from now on as I happen to have a card made by another company in my system. Nvidia will only let me use my physics again if I use all nvidia cards regardless. That is forcing me to use nvidia products as I have no choice as the physics was purchased for a dedicated single job.

If physx is such a big deal for you then maybe you should have bought a high end nvidia card to start with then you wouldn’t have this problem.

You can either buy a high end nvidia card or sell what you've got and stick with ATI, you’re not being forced to do anything.

I have no sympathy for you or any other users in this position at all.

Final8y · 12 Aug 2009 at 21:18

ebilcake said:
But there reason is valid; they can't guarantee compatibility or quality of the experience when combined with products from another company.

We all know its BS but it will hold up.

Cant guarantee is goes with the territory when its come to the PC by its very nature of mix & match to suite you from an ever changing choice of components.

What if Asus brought out there own brand of ram & claimed we can't guarantee compatibility or quality of the experience our motherboards when combined with products from another company so any another brand of ram will be disabled.

Asus Xonar we can't guarantee compatibility or quality of the experience our motherboards when combined with products from another company so any another brand of soundcard will be disabled.

The list could go on.

Its one thing to disable Phsyx when the NV card is not doing the rendering. but do disable at the mere existence of any other competing product is not on because they not dictating what hardware i can run Phsyx on, they are dictating what hardware i can have in my PC period, no matter what my intentions.

AMG · 12 Aug 2009 at 22:07

yeah I agree with that

just saying you should have got a nvidia card (basicly what Nvida are saying and it was posted here to)

Nvida refusing to support users than have Nvida cards as physics is fine, but disabling it due to a radeon being present is not acceptable and I also think it dictating what hardware to have in our own PC.
most of us borough our cards with with care , with ethoir Radeon or Nvida its because A. they suited our budgets, performances level etc

most of us go ATI because A. Nvida are not cheap enough for the performances they actually give (if anyway)

Some people buy ATI cos they had enough of Nvidas attitude and marketing approaches

some just want a change

and some just use common sense and go for the bang for buck theory

Chronictank · 12 Aug 2009 at 22:33

ebilcake you don't seem to grasp there is a world of difference in not supporting and disabling a currently working product
They would be spending exactly 0 if they simply put a 'not supported' label on it and said people use it at their own risk, and still make money at no cost

The above example is a better one, what if AMD one day sold x units, then decided to disable anything non-ati in your system via drivers

The only even remotely valid argument for it in this thread is brand reputation, but even than if they openly said they do not support ati cards it is a pretty sketchy argument at best.

I would suggest everyone with a cheap Nvidia card bought for physx as a second card mail them for a refund and see how that pans out

Edit: oops wrong name

jigger · 12 Aug 2009 at 23:23

ebilcake said:
If physx is such a big deal for you then maybe you should have bought a high end nvidia card to start with then you wouldn’t have this problem.

You can either buy a high end nvidia card or sell what you've got and stick with ATI, you’re not being forced to do anything.

I have no sympathy for you or any other users in this position at all.

Yes I should have used my crystal ball :rolleyes:

Nvidia need to do one of two things.

1, support the product they sold me.

2, pull the plug and compensate everyone how purchased a card for physics and can no longer use it.

theforce · 13 Aug 2009 at 00:37

While l enjoyed being a Nvidia customer in the past with my old and trusty GeForce 3 l haven't used any of their products since. I was happy with my 9800se, 1800xl, 3850 and now 4890. Recently l replaced the GPU of the PC at work, a 9500 with my old 1800xl. I was planning to use it for Phsyx when Windows 7 was out.

Logically many ATI users would buy cheap Nvidia card for PhysX and that would be something positive for Nvidia, financially wise.

Does anybody with extensive knowledge know how OpenCL is forming up and if any developers are using it in any upcoming games?