Nvidia Gameworks at Gamescom 2015

[humbug]

Exactly this, people keep blaming NVidia for the Gameworks implementation in certain games, it would be like blaming Crytek for the fact that humbugs demos are not up to AAA title standard.(no offence humbug) The tools can do the job it is down to how the developer implements them.

owie

No offence taken, i'm not a pro tho i can make it look a lot better than that if i put my mind to it, in that its not about it looking like an AAA title, its just me ****'ing about, seeing whats possible.

Save face Screenshots of later work

 

[bfar]

Hopefully the effects will cripple AMD cards. Will give them something to have a moan about.

It's meant to cripple even the most powerful cards. That's the whole point - to make you think you need to upgrade.

 

[Final8y]

It's meant to cripple even the most powerful cards. That's the whole point - to make you think you need to upgrade.

Marketing 101, make as many people think they need something that they dont need.

 

[layte]

but they have not done so

..and you know this how exactly? AMD themselves have stated this is how they planed to use the feature, have they retracted that at some point?

 

[FoxEye]

All that is really nice but the thing is nothing there is anything that can't be done by Developers with the tools they already have, independently of Nvidia or AMD.

I'm just not keen on Hardware vendors doing what Game Developers should be doing, its a skill set that gets lost as they become far too dependant on those vendors to do everything for them, this is aside from other arguments that have been had many times.

This stuff is not THAT difficult, i'm uploading a couple of vids to Youtube, it will take a couple of hours.

At the same time, you don't want every team to be (re)inventing the same wheel at every different company/studio.

The end goal should be that content creators create content, and middleware devs make all the neat tools that all the content creators use.

This is already happening, because it's not cost effective for devs to make all their own tech for every game. The more middleware they get and the better it gets the more they can stop being engineers and just focus on creating great content. In theory, at least.

 

[Final8y]

..and you know this how exactly? AMD themselves have stated this is how they planed to use the feature, have they retracted that at some point?

Planned to and doing so are 2 different things and when i tested crysis 2 which spawned this feature there was no performance difference between AMD optimized and 64 and at the end of the day if there is no visual loss then its a plus in efficiency not a negative.

I do not consider culling unseen geometry as cheating, its efficiency.

And that's the end of that.

 

[humbug]

At the same time, you don't want every team to be (re)inventing the same wheel at every different company/studio.

The end goal should be that content creators create content, and middleware devs make all the neat tools that all the content creators use.

This is already happening, because it's not cost effective for devs to make all their own tech for every game. The more middleware they get and the better it gets the more they can stop being engineers and just focus on creating great content. In theory, at least.

There is one thing that i will concede, these middle-ware tools have been around for an age and yet few developers have bothered to pull their own fingers out of their asses with it.

Blender Bullet Physics

 

[Final8y]

There is one thing that i will concede, these middle-ware tools have been around for an age and yet few developers have bother to pull thier own fingers out of their asses with it.

Blender...

Indeed i have seen some fantastic examples on youtube.

 

[D.P.]

There is one thing that i will concede, these middle-ware tools have been around for an age and yet few developers have bothered to pull their own fingers out of their asses with it.

Blender Bullet Physics

All of that is using middleware just like Gamesworks. You are just proving why Gamesworks needs to exist.The Bullet library is nice but so is PhysX. The last time I checked Bullet didn;t allow GPU accelerate on platforms other than windows though.
You know Blender can also use PhysX.

they are all just different choices.


Physics is the 1 domian where there are mutliple different middleware options. things like facial animation libraries are very few and far between.

 

[Gerard]

Exactly this, people keep blaming NVidia for the Gameworks implementation in certain games, it would be like blaming Crytek for the fact that humbugs demos are not up to AAA title standard.(no offence humbug) The tools can do the job it is down to how the developer implements them.

Its already been said that NVidia send out techs to help implement the gameworks effects, its not as if its the developer doing all of it.

 

[D.P.]

There is one thing that i will concede, these middle-ware tools have been around for an age and yet few developers have bothered to pull their own fingers out of their asses with it.

Blender Bullet Physics

All of that is using middleware just like Gamesworks. You are just proving why Gamesworks needs to exist.The Bullet library is nice, but so is PhysX and PhysX can be GPU accelerated on nvidia hardware


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPkDeITyxJA

 

[humbug]

All of that is using middleware just like Gamesworks. You are just proving why Gamesworks needs to exist.The Bullet library is nice, but so is PhysX and PhysX can be GPU accelerated on nvidia hardware

We are going round in circles with this, You can do anything PhysX can do with Physics engines that have nothing to do with Nvidia, what matters here is it will run on any hardware, it does not care if its Nvidia, AMD or Intel or whatever.

My argument is that's better, if you disagree explain why.

 

[D.P.]

There is one thing that i will concede, these middle-ware tools have been around for an age and yet few developers have bothered to pull their own fingers out of their asses with it.

Blender Bullet Physics

All of that is using middleware just like Gamesworks. You are just proving why Gamesworks needs to exist.The Bullet library is nice, but so is PhysX and PhysX can be GPU accelerated on nvidia hardware

 

[bru]

Its already been said that NVidia send out techs to help implement the gameworks effects, its not as if its the developer doing all of it.

If you think that every time Gameworks is used it is only by NVidia techs then you need your head examined.
So humbug if you fancy humbug a mess around with Gameworks NVidia will send an engineer round to your house to help you do a demo.

Those screens do look good humbug.

 

[D.P.]

We are going round in circles with this, You can do anything PhysX can do with Physics engines that have nothing to do with Nvidia, what matters here is it will run on any hardware, it does not care if its Nvidia, AMD or Intel or whatever.

My argument is that's better, if you disagree explain why.

PhysX can run on the CPU on any hardware, AMD or Intel.



But physics is just a single library. If game developers want to have realistic facial animation or hair simulation how many libraries are there? Facworks and hairworks run on all DX11 GPUs.

 

[humbug]

If you think that every time Gameworks is used it is only by NVidia techs then you need your head examined.
So humbug if you fancy humbug a mess around with Gameworks NVidia will send an engineer round to your house to help you do a demo.

Those screens do look good humbug.

Haha... thats not a bad idea, some Nvidia guy can come to my home, i'll make him a Cupa Tea

PhysX can run on the CPU on any hardware, AMD or Intel.



But physics is just a single library. If game developers want to have realistic facial animation or hair simulation how many libraries are there? Facworks and hairworks run on all DX11 GPUs.

You don't need to use Libraries, the grass you see in my screenshot is rective is the same way you see in the video's, some of it is libraries (Not reactive) some of it i made in 3DSMax and that is reactive.

 

[D.P.]

Haha... thats not a bad idea, some Nvidia guy can come to my home, i'll make him a Cupa Tea



You don't need to use Libraries, the grass you see in my screenshot is rective is the same way you see in the video's, some of it is libraries (Not reactive) some of it i made in 3DSMax and that is reactive.

Everything you have us using libraries and middle are. Cryengine is a library, DX is a library.

 

[Gerard]

If you think that every time Gameworks is used it is only by NVidia techs then you need your head examined.

Well they're the ones that spout this, that they have something like 300 techs and artists that go out to assist in games. So its fair to say that any triple a game with gameworks in it has most likely had direct NVidia involvement into gameworks aspects among other things.

 

[humbug]

Everything you have us using libraries and middle are. Cryengine is a library, DX is a library.

I see we are not talking about the same thing, you know what. answer this question.

We are going round in circles with this, You can do anything PhysX can do with Physics engines that have nothing to do with Nvidia, what matters here is it will run on any hardware, it does not care if its Nvidia, AMD or Intel or whatever.

My argument is that's better, if you disagree explain why.

 

[FoxEye]

If nV want to make some middleware that runs extremely well on nV hardware, why not?

Is your problem with anti-competitive behaviour? Ie, 3rd party middleware being disadvantaged over hardware vendor middleware?

Not sure where the complaint is atm