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NVIDIA RTX 50 SERIES - Technical/General Discussion

Steve Bruce said:
The 5070ti was the card on paper that made the most sense albeit 750 is still big money for that range of card, when it wasn't long ago you could get the top card for that price.

Looking at the prices in America which generally is reflected here (UK) as $1=£1 it would be foolish to buy it. You'd better wait for the 5080 to come back into stock if you're adamant you're buying a 50 series card
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I’d agree but the problem is you can’t get an RTX 5080 anywhere close to the RRP either. You’re going to be paying nearer to £1100-1200 even when they’re eventually in stock as far as I can see?

On that basis I can see why many will still be tempted by an RTX 5070Ti even at £800-900.

More frustratingly, from what I’ve seen so far even when the stock situation improves there’s still no reason to expect prices to fall. The only chance of that happening is if the new AMD cards are competitive in terms on performance and features.

Between features like DLSS and Ray tracing Nvidia seem to have a monopoly on features/game support even if AMD can match the performance of the 5070 series.
 
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philo-sofa said:
AFAIK (not a sparkie by any means) PSUs also limit the draw of their connectors, separately to single/multi-rail OCP. e.g. my Corsair PSU has a limit of 300w per 8-pin (others are likely lower) which my CableMod cable translates to two pairs of 12v cables. So a 300w limit per two cables; it's not much, but it's some protection.

By comparison a 12v connector on the PSU side would just limit draw to ~600w, which could in theory all go to one cable. Just shows how screwed-up and inferior the 12v connector spec is at every end.
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That's an interesting point. Der8auer used the Corsair multiple 8pin to 12VHPWR cable when showing that massive current imbalance where 2 strands of cable were taking most of the load. I think however this cable just merges all 8x 12V strands into one blob of 12v before sending it down the 6x 12v strands to the GPU, so doesn't actually ensure that half the 6 strands can only receive a maximum of half the load i.e 600w i.e 200w per strand max.

Mods might want to insist all power cable talk is moved to the 12VHPWR thread, this might be annoying for people who don't care lol
 
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Boomstick777 said:
Definitely worth holding off if your not desperate for a new shiny GPU.
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Yeah, the problem is that my current GPU is dead so I need to buy something if I want to play any PC games.

Think I’ll keep an eye out to see how things pan out over the next month though. 5070ti is out this week. New AMD 9070 chips unveiled next week and the 5070 release the week after.

If things still look grim after that I’ll probably just buy an RTX 4060 (or equivalent for around £250) as a stop gap until later in the year!
 
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SeeNoWeevil said:
Using multiple 8 pins on the PSU side is an improvement (in theory at least) as potentially problems are spread over more strands PLUS the surface area of 2 plugs is much higher which dissipates heat better.

This has been mentioned by Aris (Hardware Busters/PSU cert), R&D head from Corsair and the Intel electrical engineer.
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Not doubting it's an improvement on one side and improves the odds of success just don't want anyone being under the impression there's actually some limit on these pins on the PSU side.
 
SeeNoWeevil said:
Mods might want to insist all power cable talk is moved to the 12VHPWR thread, this might be annoying for people who don't care lol
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Personally, as I've said before, i don't consider this to be a 12VHPWR problem.

Yes that's where the issue exhibits itself but that's not the cause, it's being caused because Nvidia have designed the power delivery of the 40 & 50 series that use 12VHPWR badly. Because instead of treating 12VHPWR as 3-4 separate 150-200W wires/rails they're treating as if it's a single big wire/rail that's capable of 600W.
 
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kindai said:
To be honest if the stock issues are as widespread as reported i imagine many of those pre orders on other sites will end up being cancelled by the retailers as when the next wave of cards come in theyll either be selling at a loss or no profit at all.

At least with ocuk you know if you got a pre order you will be getting it.
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Well close enough! But when a retailer takes thousands more in orders than they even have stock for or even on the way, it was obvious.
 
Murphy said:
It would not, a PSU will supply whatever power a device draws right up to the PSU's rated maximum output.

Things that supply power, computer PSU's, the wall sockets in your house, the local substation, and even power stations will supply whatever power something draws regardless of the type of socket, cable, or whatever it is that's drawing that power. We put measures in place to cut power if something tries to draw more than the system is rated for, but those a safety measures they're not only send this much power down this wire, through this socket, measures.

It says that's what each 8-pin is rated for, it does not say you could not draw more than 300W if you were silly enough to try.

If you took a DMM to one of the +12v pins on those 8-pin PCI-E connectors i pretty much guarantee you that it would measure near enough the wattage & amperage that's listed on the specs for the entire +12 rail.
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A PSU isn't a wall socket, nor a power station and an 8-pin isn't rated for 300w. But teardowns and suggest reviews say that that PSUs have controls which will limit socket outputs (and that in Corsair's case it's 300w for an 8-pin connection).

But TBH it's always possible that review sites have been incorrect, or I've misunderstood them.
 
philo-sofa said:
A PSU isn't a wall socket, nor a power station and an 8-pin isn't rated for 300w.
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But they all supply power and unless we've changed physics in the last few years that's how electricity works.
philo-sofa said:
But teardowns and suggest reviews say that that PSUs have controls which will limit socket outputs (and that in Corsair's case it's 300w for an 8-pin connection).
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Wicked, then you can provide links to them, yes?
 
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Murphy said:
But they all supply power and unless we've changed physics in the last few years that's how electricity works.
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This is kind of nonsensical. A PSU doesn't work the same way as a power outlet; one subtle indicator is that the PSU has a lot more componentry inside.

Murphy said:
Wicked, then you can provide links to them, yes?
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Ahh, a man who provides no links but asks for links from someone who disagrees with him.

Old article regarding multiple rails with examples (from Corsair's chief designer):
http://www.jongerow.com/multiple-12V-rails/index.html

Techpowerup HX-1000 teardown:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/corsair-hx1000i/2.html

The last one suggests that OCP will limit the output of each 8-pin connector to 40A (not 25A) on the HX-1000. So even if nothing else is moderating power draw in there (which I suspect there is) you were very wrong about the PSU not moderating power usage, although I'd be just as wrong about the level of protection (300w vs 480w).

But please, do feel free to provide links of your own to further the discussion.
 
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philo-sofa said:
This is kind of nonsensical. A PSU doesn't work the same way as a power outlet; one subtle indicator is that the PSU has a lot more componentry inside.
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Electricity is electricity, it doesn't change just because what it's coming out of changes.
philo-sofa said:
Ahh, a man who provides no links but asks for links from someone who disagrees with him.

Old article regarding multiple rails with examples (from Corsair's chief designer):
http://www.jongerow.com/multiple-12V-rails/index.html

Techpowerup HX-1000 teardown:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/corsair-hx1000i/2.html

The last one suggests that OCP will limit the output of each 8-pin connector to 40A (not 25A) on the HX-1000. So even if nothing else is moderating power draw in there (which I suspect there is) you were very wrong about the PSU not moderating power usage, although I'd be just as wrong about the level of protection (300w vs 480w).

But please, do feel free to provide links of your own to further the discussion.
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What links was i meant to be providing?

To answer your previous question yes, you've misunderstood what you're reading.
In most cases, multiple +12V rails are actually just a single +12V source just split up into multiple +12V outputs each with a limited output capability.
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Limited to the output of the single +12v source rail.
We should also mention that enabling multi-rail mode through Corsair Link will also enable Over Current Protection (OCP). According to Corsair, this unit's +12V OCP is set to 40 A on each modular 8-pin connector (for PCIe and EPS connectors), 40 A on the 24-pin ATX connector, and 40 A for all the 6-pin modular SATA and peripheral connectors combined.
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Limited to 40 amps across all 8-pin, EPS, 24-pin, and 6-pin connectors combined.

If you're saying that each connector is limited to 40 amps then that means across the 8 PCI-E connectors, 2 EPS connectors, ATX connector, 12 SATA connectors it's not a 1000W PSU but more than a 11000W PSU.
 
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