Nvidia rumour to be launching new GTX 11 series without ray tracing

drakulton · 31 Dec 2018 at 00:43

HangTime said:
We've been here before though; it's all very cyclical with PC gaming supposedly under threat from consoles but never actually getting killed off. PCs have never been a particularly good value proposition for gaming and have always relied on differentiators to retain buyers.
Let's be honest, the sort of cards we are talking about here are very high end and likely to be used to drive >60hz gaming which is still something yet to be cracked by consoles, the sort of people buying these GPUs are heavy enthusiasts who will pay a premium for elite tier products.

To be fair consoles have closed off some of the gaps that always let them down like online distribution / multiplayer, richer functionality (web apps etc) but because they have to hit a mainstream price point they never have top tier tech on board.

and so it begins...… how very Vorlonesque

wellibob · 31 Dec 2018 at 10:28

Nvidia don't care bout making making gamers happy anymore. Its about making money from the mess, that is the RTX. Damage is done now. Only decent prices, can save them and if they won't they'll suffer.

silvagti · 31 Dec 2018 at 10:33

HangTime said:
We've been here before though; it's all very cyclical with PC gaming supposedly under threat from consoles but never actually getting killed off. PCs have never been a particularly good value proposition for gaming and have always relied on differentiators to retain buyers.

It is but this is the first time since the Xbox360/ps3 released (2006-2007) where I've felt that the the extra cost of buying a PC isn't actually worth the money given the level of performance offered by consoles at the moment.

There are plenty of folk who will happily pay top dollar for the best experience but there needs to be a level of differentiation to justify the expense. It isn't there right now IMO.

To be fair I think that had more to do with how competitive and at the top of their game consoles are right now. Plus the quality of televisions out there is also incredibly high (4k, HDR,120hz) for comparatively very little money next to PC monitors.

Razor Time · 31 Dec 2018 at 10:42

It's already happening. Friends who were pc only have bought ps4 pro's or Xbox one x's due to the high prices.

I myself have also bought both consoles as I wanted to do some gaming in the Lounge and refuse to pay what Nvidia want for a gpu. So far I have been very impressed with games like god of war, Spiderman and red dead 2.

Nasher · 31 Dec 2018 at 10:51

Yep consoles got a lot better since they took on the x86 architecture tbh. But the problem is no KB+mouse and no freedom in what you can do it on it.

fizzy · 31 Dec 2018 at 11:20

Nasher said:
Yep consoles got a lot better since they took on the x86 architecture tbh. But the problem is no KB+mouse and no freedom in what you can do it on it.

Support of keyboard and mouse on console and games is already creeping in on xbox, and probably won't be long on PS either. Linus Tech Tips did an article recently?

Wrinkly · 31 Dec 2018 at 11:23

Nasher said:
Yep consoles got a lot better since they took on the x86 architecture tbh. But the problem is no KB+mouse and no freedom in what you can do it on it.

Just google "xbox keyboard and mouse".

Nasher · 31 Dec 2018 at 12:19

fizzy said:
Support of keyboard and mouse on console and games is already creeping in on xbox, and probably won't be long on PS either. Linus Tech Tips did an article recently?

Unless it's proper native support it's not that good. Those plugin adapter things were awful and had loads of input lag. Made worse by the slow response times of most TVs.

Chrisc · 31 Dec 2018 at 12:20

Nasher said:
Yep consoles got a lot better since they took on the x86 architecture tbh. But the problem is no KB+mouse and no freedom in what you can do it on it.

A couple of developers have already built this into certain games on the Xbox. From the video Linus made, there can be some mouse compatibility issues.

JoshR1989 · 31 Dec 2018 at 12:26

If they released a gtx 2080ti I'd probably buy it to be honest, the rtx card isn't really tempting me with the issues lots of people have had. Spending well over £1k on a component, stripping it down to install a water block, draining my loop bleeding etc for it to fail would be a major kick in the teeth.

DELETED_195422 · 31 Dec 2018 at 12:36

Sadly, going back to consoles isn't an option for me. The only positive aspect going for consoles is their exclusives. That's it. Plus £200/250 doesn't even get you the best console anymore.
Also, i find it a bit ironic people complaining about GPU prices, then say they've spent £750 on hardware buying a PS4 PRO and Xbox One X :confused:

. This place has a sense of humour, that's for sure.

HangTime · 31 Dec 2018 at 12:47

silvagti said:
It is but this is the first time since the Xbox360/ps3 released (2006-2007) where I've felt that the the extra cost of buying a PC isn't actually worth the money given the level of performance offered by consoles at the moment.

There are plenty of folk who will happily pay top dollar for the best experience but there needs to be a level of differentiation to justify the expense. It isn't there right now IMO.

To be fair I think that had more to do with how competitive and at the top of their game consoles are right now. Plus the quality of televisions out there is also incredibly high (4k, HDR,120hz) for comparatively very little money next to PC monitors.

I guess this is kinda where I'm coming from, we heard it back in 2006-7 as you have intimated, but people kept buying PCs and investing in tech, around that era yes consoles made a good jump forward but people kept buying 8800GTX, Q6600, 120hz monitors etc which would blow consoles out of the water. If you wanted to play competitive FPS then you needed to be on PC. If you wanted to play games like Crysis at acceptable performance levels then you needed a PC.

Yes, as I acknowledged the gap has closed and maybe we don't have a modern equivalent of those killer parts and killer apps (?) but I still see people buying gaming PCs and despite high end cards being difficult to justify, people that want to pay a bit extra for a PC experience can still get something like a RX580 8GB for well under £200 that should be competitive with consoles.
One factor, I guess, is that desktop PCs in general are going out of fashion somewhat; it used to be that you kind of needed a PC or at minimum a laptop anyway to do non-gaming stuff online, but nowadays most people have smartphones, tablets etc.

It still seems cyclical to me though, I mean about say 18-24 months(?) ago seemingly all the rage on this forum was about people wanting gaming PCs with PS4/XBO supposedly not up to the job due to concerns around 30fps and suchlike. It could be I have underestimated the impact of the refreshed Pro/X models but it feels more like the slowdown in GPU development (at a given price point) should be more of a factor for the next generation of consoles, rather than driving people away now (people with older slow PCs who have been waiting to upgrade should be in a position to do so now the crypto gold rush has calmed down, serial upgraders who have good kit anyway can't really get much better from a console than their current PC).

Razor Time · 31 Dec 2018 at 13:20

Rock_n_Roll said:
Sadly, going back to consoles isn't an option for me. The only positive aspect going for consoles is their exclusives. That's it. Plus £200/250 doesn't even get you the best console anymore.
Also, i find it a bit ironic people complaining about GPU prices, then say they've spent £750 on hardware buying a PS4 PRO and Xbox One X . This place has a sense of humour, that's for sure.

Deals can be had if you look around and buy at the right time. My PS4 pro cost me £300 (ebay discount code) including Red Dead 2 on release which is a £45-50 game.

Flake87 · 31 Dec 2018 at 15:15

With the talk of consoles, how many of the games developers design games first for consoles, because that is where the volume sales are, and then port them over to PC with a minimum of work to save time & money, meaning that GPUs aren't really being stretched all that much anyway?

Nasher · 31 Dec 2018 at 15:38

Flake87 said:
With the talk of consoles, how many of the games developers design games first for consoles, because that is where the volume sales are, and then port them over to PC with a minimum of work to save time & money, meaning that GPUs aren't really being stretched all that much anyway?

That's what has been happening for at least a decade.

Unless your expecting 60+ fps in 4k, mid range cards can run pretty much everything fine.

Klo · 31 Dec 2018 at 16:12

Nasher said:
That's what has been happening for at least a decade.

Unless your expecting 60+ fps in 4k, mid range cards can run pretty much everything fine.

Which is why I don't understand people whining about how expensive it is 'to keep up' with PC gaming. Maybe 15 years ago sure, but nowadays you can keep the same CPU's for 5+ years and still be fine. Even GPU's can be kept for 5 ish years.

Nasher · 31 Dec 2018 at 16:17

Klo said:
Which is why I don't understand people whining about how expensive it is 'to keep up' with PC gaming. Maybe 15 years ago sure, but nowadays you can keep the same CPU's for 5+ years and still be fine. Even GPU's can be kept for 5 ish years.

It doesn't justify the stupid prices and it's only going to make things progress slower. Developers won't make games for 2080ti level of GPUs because less than 1% of people will buy one. For that price you can have a console, a huge TV and a bunch of games.

At the moment they are basically porting straight from consoles on many games, which are around rx570 sort of spec. Well within the price range that most people buy.

DELETED_195422 · 31 Dec 2018 at 17:16

Flake87 said:
With the talk of consoles, how many of the games developers design games first for consoles, because that is where the volume sales are, and then port them over to PC with a minimum of work to save time & money, meaning that GPUs aren't really being stretched all that much anyway?

Yep, it's why i'll never pay over £300/400 for a GPU. It's just a waste spending more when the tech isn't being utilised.

In all honesty, i'm just bored of flat screen gaming in general. Everything is cookie cutter nonsense. It's all the same with little innovation.

I definitely want to buy into PCVR, but again, it's a content issue.

lltfdaniel · 31 Dec 2018 at 17:19

Rock_n_Roll said:
Yep, it's why i'll never pay over £300/400 for a GPU. It's just a waste spending more when the tech isn't being utilised.

In all honesty, i'm just bored of flat screen gaming in general. Everything is cookie cutter nonsense. It's all the same with little innovation.

I definitely want to buy into PCVR, but again, it's a content issue.

Yeah i agree fully with you.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/32381200

Klo · 31 Dec 2018 at 17:24

Nasher said:
It doesn't justify the stupid prices and it's only going to make things progress slower. Developers won't make games for 2080ti level of GPUs because less than 1% of people will buy one. For that price you can have a console, a huge TV and a bunch of games.

At the moment they are basically porting straight from consoles on many games, which are around rx570 sort of spec. Well within the price range that most people buy.

Then buy a PC with 570 spec, save literally thousands and be happy? My point is, it's not 2/3k PC's vs consoles, it's 500-1k PC's vs consoles. PC enthusiasts don't have to own the high end.