***Official 2010 F1 thread***

I think what Button is doing is remarkable and he should be commended for it. It is a risk, sure. But so would have staying with a Mercedes backed team that doesn't seem to like you anymore.

Button has already achieved his goal of a WDC so he is setting himself a new target of trying to beat Hamilton in the same car. And not even Alonso could do that.

If Hamilton struggles to drive a heavily fuelled car next year (which is the current armchair expert FUD doing the rounds) then it could give Button the edge...

Even if Button does struggle to match Hamilton it's not the end of the world for him. He's not out to impress anyone - he's just trying to find his own personal limits. He's still got 3 years of job security out of it and the chance to pick up the occasional race win.
 
JRS said:
What d'you mean "a few years ago"? You were pretty much saying that less than a year ago.
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http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14992469&postcount=802

sunama said:
I'm not a big fan of Button either; I still believe he is a journeyman and is intent on enjoying the lifestyle that being an F1 driver brings, as opposed to being a true racer. In fact, if Rosberg moves to BrawnGP for 2010 and Button wins the title this year, it wouldnt surprise me if he were to quit F1.
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30th Sep 2009, 04:37
 
Yep. And I still stand by that.

What has happened in the last week or so, with the McLaren deal shows total ambition. 2009 was the year he changed the attitude of being happy at the back of the grid, away from the limelight. Perhaps his title win in 2009, brought back his ambition.
 
sunama said:
His move to McLaren is a clear indication that in 2010, this is absolutely not the case. I don't think any other top line driver would have the balls to go up head to head like this (that includes Alonso or Vettel).

Many of you don't quite understand just what Button has done by moving to McLaren - he is putting EVERYTHING on the line. For this I have nothing but respect for the guy.
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I think you don't understand - his hand was forced. It was either drive for a mid-field or new team, take a sabbatical, or jump into the Lion's den with Hamilton.

The former 2 options would instantly undermine his credibility, so in a way this was the only thing he could do to maintain his stature in F1 (as well as taking home a nice fat pay cheque!).

I assume, of course, that Mercedes didn't want him, as I'm sure he would have preferred to be the #1 driver in a team setup for him...

Su
 
Cheers Kenai. Anyone want to take bets on sunama's response?

***edit***

Just LOL. I can't believe you actually stand by that statement sunama. Even you surely aren't that blind.
 
sunama said:
Yep. And I still stand by that.

What has happened in the last week or so, with the McLaren deal shows total ambition. 2009 was the year he changed the attitude of being happy at the back of the grid, away from the limelight. Perhaps his title win in 2009, brought back his ambition.
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He was moaning, non stop, for 2 years when driving that dog of a Honda car. He moaned so much in fact that people started to dislike him. He was *never* happy driving that Honda as a back marker.

I'm sure he was burnt out from it but occupational burn-out does not automatically imply he is a journeyman as well.

Barrichello is a journeyman - he just takes the deck of cards he is given and is fairly happy with them most of the time. But he is a likable character. Kimi Raikonnen is another journeyman. He never moans and, as demonstrated today, he will quit the sport on a whim over a few million quid.
 
As I said earlier - I'm no fan of Hamilton (or Alonso, or Kimi), but I respect them for winning their respective championships, why can't some people simply swallow their pride and accept that Button is WDC, and had a brilliant year.

He's now fulfilled one ambition - that of winning the WDC, and is about to fulfil another, that of driving for one of the most well-known, major players in F1 (I would say respected, but it'll take a few years of keeping their noses clean to regain that).

I think that's brilliant of Jenson, and he must be on top of the world.

I sincerely hope that Anthony Hamilton doesn't make life unbearable for him though - although I fear that's asking too much.
 
NathanE said:
He was moaning, non stop, for 2 years when driving that dog of a Honda car. He moaned so much in fact that people started to dislike him. He was *never* happy driving that Honda as a back marker.

I'm sure he was burnt out from it but occupational burn-out does not automatically imply he is a journeyman as well.

Barrichello is a journeyman - he just takes the deck of cards he is given and is fairly happy with them most of the time. But he is a likable character. Kimi Raikonnen is another journeyman. He never moans and, as demonstrated today, he will quit the sport on a whim over a few million quid.
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journey man? Kimi's an ice cream man more like.
 
smr said:
journey man? Kimi's an ice cream man more like.
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I'd call him a selfish loner. He was the only driver to *not* be a member of the drivers association this year - that tells me he's only concerned about himself and couldn't give a stuff about anyone else.
 
NathanE said:
Even if Button does struggle to match Hamilton it's not the end of the world for him. He's not out to impress anyone - he's just trying to find his own personal limits.
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Wrong. When you are a professional motorsportsman, competing at the peak of motorsport (which most motorsportsmen would jump at the chance to compete in), you are trying to impress people all the time. You are trying to impress the press, your current employers, your fellow competitors, future employers and F1 fans. Your employability depends upon it.

Ego also plays a massive part in F1. No one likes to consistently get beat by another driver and look bad.

NathanE said:
He's still got 3 years of job security out of it and the chance to pick up the occasional race win.
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Not necessarily. If his performance is very poor, he could be replaced before the end of the season.

I say this again, Button is putting everything on the line by going head to with Hamilton. Usually when a driver has gone up against a top line driver and been found wanting, their career effectively ends.

Against Alonso, we have seen him effectively destroy the credibility of Piquet and Grosjean.

Against Hamilton, we have seen him effectively destroy the credibility of Heikki.

Against MS, we have seen him effectively destroy the credibility of JJ Lehto (who had a reputation for being super fast), Johnny Herbert (who many thought was a future world champ), Jos Verstappen. Barrichello was probably the only driver to partner MS and live to tell the tale.

Against Senna, we saw him effectively destroy the credibility of Michael Andretti (who had a huge reputation before he arrived in F1).

Remember, Hamilton has already destroyed Heikki, Button knows this and he could be next.
 
Hamilton isn't going to destroy another WDC driver. He might "beat" him, even regularly possibly, but he won't destroy him to the extent that he did to Kovalainen.

Button doesn't need to beat Hamilton. Let me just say that again. Button does not need to beat Hamilton. Button no longer has anything to prove. He has reached the peak of his sport. Button has instead invented a new game which is to see if he can hold his own against Hamilton. That is a title in and of itself.

It didn't do Alonso that much harm that he lost to Hamilton did it? Sure he acquired a few nicknames and labels but that was more due to his "I want the WDC on a silver platter" attitude. But even he has recently hinted on reflection of his bad attitude in 2007.
 
Dup said:
I still think Buttons a sell out and would be better staying at Brawn, but like Fisichella to Ferrari, I bet a McLaren drive will be a dream come true in some ways.
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Yeh the same sellout that stuck with Honda for years even though there car was **** every single year? :p

sunama said:
But lets not get carried away, the odds of Button finishing even close to Hamilton (in the final points standings) are very low
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Are there any odds or facts to base this on. Or is it a typical Pro Lewis down with Jenson post?
I don't think that Button is the same raw talent as Lewis is at the moment, but you make Button sound like Piquet.



I do love OCUK F1 threads :D
 
If I was Hamilton I would be s******g myself. We all know Hamilton is fast and takes risks, but this means he crashes a lot. He is also very hard on the car and abuses his tyres.

On the other hand you have Button who is fast, consistent and more gentle with the car. So when Hamilton crashes, guess who is going to be picking up all the points?

Button could potentially embarrass Hamilton.
 
Interesting footnote by James Allen:

..it will be interesting to see the two Dads together, John Button and Anthony Hamilton. They have quite a bit of history and not all of it positive. That said they are both professional F1 Dads now and will no doubt put on a show. They have succeeded in the past; Lewis used engines tuned by John Button to win one of his karting championships.
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I didn't know any of that!
 
NathanE said:
It didn't do Alonso that much harm that he lost to Hamilton did it?
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This was because he finished up on equal points with Hamilton. He didn't actually get beaten by him. Had Alonso finished say, 20 points shy of Hamilton, it would've been a totally different story and Ferrari would not have bothered to sign him, with the knowledge that in an equal car, he would get beat by Hamilton - what's the point of paying all that money to a driver, if he is going to get beaten by Hamilton, everytime they are on track...they may as well stick with Massa as their lead driver.

You are right in saying that Button doesnt need to beat Hamilton, but if he finishes with a low points total, compared with Hamilton, his reputation as a top line driver will be shot and he will then go the way of Heikki, Herbert, and all the drivers I listed above.
 
PinkFloyd said:
I do love OCUK F1 threads :D
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:D
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Entertaining to say the least!
 
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