Official 2010 F1 thread

FrankJH · 16 Sep 2009 at 13:19

JRS said:
You're telling me that Flavio Briatore, Pat Symonds and Nelson Piquet Jr were the only ones in the team to be involved? Out of all the employees who work at the track on race weekends, those three were the only ones? The word I'm looking for starts with "b", ends in "s", and refers to a gentleman's bits and pieces.

And thecremeegg makes a good point. McLaren got thrown out of the constructors championship for a simple case of getting caught engaging in a spot of industrial espionage. Renault fixed the result of a race, risking the life of a driver in the process. And that one action had further ramifications - Massa was comfortably leading that race, he may well have gone on to win it without the safety car. It was having to take that panicky, botched pitstop that cost him points there that day.

Another proverb from the Book Of Walker - F1 is IF spelt backwards....

***edit***

Presumably if Renault F1 are hit with a truly monstrous fine as part of any forthcoming punishment, they'll sue the co-conspirators to recoup what they can of it. Flav might want to start thinking about asking Bernie for a loan!

Does this mean - Massa getting one or two points more, which therefore means Hamilton being stripped of his WDC?

That would be Very unfair in my opinion as if he knew the true result of Singapore he may have raced differently in Brazil....whole load of "b***s" everywhere

(Im not saying you suggested the above - Im just extending the repercussions)

edit - ok Massa was 13th so it wouldnt have mattered, but if anyone wants to "think" of it as a normal race without that crash - Massa could easily have gained a lot of points and therefore be WDC (although this is hard to prove)

Vertigo · 16 Sep 2009 at 13:21

Mr Jack said:
Wow. So Pat and Flavio have taken the tumble. May we presume that, as with Liegate, the team themselves will avoid heavy punishment now the guilty parties have been hoofed?

Forget Liegate, Spygate is a more apt analogy. In that situation, despite McLaren's protestations that it was a few employees acting unilaterally without the knowledge of the team, they were still fined $100m and thrown out of that year's constructors' championship.

This allegation is far worse as it not only bring the sport into disrepute but also potentially jeopardised peoples' lives. Renault will no doubt try to protest that Briatore & Symonds were acting without their knowledge but the FIA can't be seen to allow that to wash given what happened to McLaren. Renault should be thrown out completely, it's the only way to leave F1 with any shred of credibility tbh.

JRS · 16 Sep 2009 at 13:21

FrankJH said:
Does this mean - Massa getting one or two points more, which therefore means Hamilton being stripped of his WDC?

Nope, since he finished out of the points there. It actually gives Hamilton more points if they DQ the Renault team from that race retroactively. If they remove them from the season....not sure, would have to go back and look it up. Suffice to say, they probably won't be taking Hamilton's title off him over this! It'll just go down as yet another "what if?" in the history of the sport.

Vertigo · 16 Sep 2009 at 13:27

The 2008 season is done and dusted, end of. There's no way on earth they'll retroactively change anything.

FrankJH · 16 Sep 2009 at 13:29

JRS said:
Nope, since he finished out of the points there. It actually gives Hamilton more points if they DQ the Renault team from that race retroactively. If they remove them from the season....not sure, would have to go back and look it up. Suffice to say, they probably won't be taking Hamilton's title off him over this! It'll just go down as yet another "what if?" in the history of the sport.

I did edit but after you posted lol

but if the accident had happened - Massa was well in the lead as you suggested, so its a little harsh...... impossible to resolve retrospectively but still an awful issue for Massa (even more so if he never gets another chance at a WDC)

Moley · 16 Sep 2009 at 13:31

It's also worth considering that if Renault the manufacturer pull out of F1 it doesn't necessarily mean the end of the Formula One team - they could easily be bought out and resurrected under a new name.

In fact I think this is most likely to happen.

philjohn · 16 Sep 2009 at 13:36

Moley said:
It's also worth considering that if Renault the manufacturer pull out of F1 it doesn't necessarily mean the end of the Formula One team - they could easily be bought out and resurrected under a new name.

In fact I think this is most likely to happen.

Exactly, from the top of my head, the current renault team has previously been benneton and toleman.

JRS · 16 Sep 2009 at 13:36

FrankJH said:
impossible to resolve retrospectively but still an awful issue for Massa (even more so if he never gets another chance at a WDC)

Meh, it's probably for the best. Can you imagine the sheer amount of bile coming from dannyjo22's keyboard if Massa (WORST FERRARI DRIVER EVAR!!!1111oneoneone) did actually win a title?

philjohn · 16 Sep 2009 at 13:52

JRS said:
Meh, it's probably for the best. Can you imagine the sheer amount of bile coming from dannyjo22's keyboard if Massa (WORST FERRARI DRIVER EVAR!!!1111oneoneone) did actually win a title?

as Mosley has said, the 2008 WDC results are a fait accompli, so it's a non-issue anyway.

Goksly · 16 Sep 2009 at 13:56

Might play nice for the BMW? Thye have been sold but don't have a place on the grid... if Renault are kicked out?

spoonz · 16 Sep 2009 at 13:56

LOL

I wonder if Piquet is "watching his back" now? I can imagine Flav will want revenge at some point.

What I also found funny, is that telling Piquet to crash was never going to raise any eyebrows was it? Hes no Nick Heidfeld.

I bet everyone watching just "tutted" and mumbled "theres a suprise" as he ploughed into the wall.

Can anytone hear his second comment on this video?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8258987.stm

Mr Jack · 16 Sep 2009 at 13:56

Vertigo1 said:
This allegation is far worse as it not only bring the sport into disrepute but also potentially jeopardised peoples' lives.

I don't believe anyone's life was put at risk. F1 drivers are almost never injured in real crashes, I think it's quite obvious that a driver of Nelson Piquet's talent* could pull off a crash without endagering himself or anyone else.

The disrepute issue is very serious, this is worse than Liegate on that front, but I don't think it's in a whole different league and given the caliber of those involved in walking I think it'll fly. A fine, maybe a loss of championship points from this season. And they'll be back on the grid next year.

* - NP may have been one of the worst drivers in F1 in recent times, but that only means he was one of only the best 0.00001% of drivers in the world, rather than the best 0.000001%.

GravyMonster · 16 Sep 2009 at 13:59

Goksly said:
Might play nice for the BMW? Thye have been sold but don't have a place on the grid... if Renault are kicked out?

They have a place on the grid reguardless of the outcome with Renault - the FIA want to extend the grid to 14 teams.

FrankJH · 16 Sep 2009 at 14:01

JRS said:
Meh, it's probably for the best. Can you imagine the sheer amount of bile coming from dannyjo22's keyboard if Massa (WORST FERRARI DRIVER EVAR!!!1111oneoneone) did actually win a title?

just like some of your bile regarding Barrichello outracing Button a few days ago

philjohn · 16 Sep 2009 at 14:01

Spunkey said:
They have a place on the grid reguardless of the outcome with Renault - the FIA want to extend the grid to 14 teams.

problem is, due to the new concord agreement, they have to get the blessing of the existing signatories - they may not want to as it could reduce their points haul, garage space and payments from CVC.

Christo · 16 Sep 2009 at 14:03

JRS said:
As far as possible punishments go for Renault, this is what Mad Max has to say:

No, the worst that could happen is that all the employees who were involved end up in a dungeon.

With you.

And a pile of whips and nipple clamps.

lol

JRS · 16 Sep 2009 at 14:08

FrankJH said:
just like some of your bile regarding Barrichello outracing Button a few days ago

I posted bile about Barrichello?

***edit***

Seriously Frank. Not trying to be an arse here, but where did I post bile about Barrichello outracing Button? I've just been back over my posts and can't find anything. I had to check, because I do on occasion drink and this can lead me to post utter crap sometimes. But I can't think why I would have done what you said?

Christo · 16 Sep 2009 at 14:14

Look at how relatively unhappy Alonso is after winning the Piquetgate race:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8252240.stm
0:51

and 03:55 - Alonso's sheepish response, haha.

I consider him a relatively honourable driver (for some reason).

Flibster · 16 Sep 2009 at 14:19

*clears throat...*

Aaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!
*gasps for breath*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Renault caught cheating for the second time in under 2 years... guilty the first time with no penalty was suspect - if they get no penalty for this then it's corruption of the highest degree.

Anything less than a $100'000'000 fine, exclusion from the constructors championship and 2 years on probation is unacceptable.

GravyMonster · 16 Sep 2009 at 14:22

philjohn said:
problem is, due to the new concord agreement, they have to get the blessing of the existing signatories - they may not want to as it could reduce their points haul, garage space and payments from CVC.

True, the teams may object but as we're all too aware, what the FIA wants, the FIA gets. Even if it does take several court cases and dragging the F1 name into the mud.

***Official 2010 F1 thread***

Official 2010 F1 thread