***Official 2010 F1 thread***

Neolink said:
Mostly upset about Kobayashi losing his likely set, but someone else will get him I hope. I think would be a great addition to the line-up of any team :o
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you and me both, although he only did a couple of races think he's done better than a fair few of the newer guys on the grid and done pretty well when compared with some of the more experienced ones.
 
stockhausen said:
It also mentions the possibility of Mercedes switching its involvement from McLaren to Brawn GP which I suspect might result in McLaren alos pulling out of F1 sooner rather than later.
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Somehow, I don't see McLaren pulling out. They've stuck around through several periods of adversity - the death of Bruce, several uncompetitive seasons, SpyGate, LieGate....I'm sure they could survive Mercedes upping sticks and planting their flag in the BrawnGP garage.
 
JRS said:
Somehow, I don't see McLaren pulling out. They've stuck around through several periods of adversity - the death of Bruce, several uncompetitive seasons, SpyGate, LieGate....I'm sure they could survive Mercedes upping sticks and planting their flag in the BrawnGP garage.
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Not only that - but I also read that IF Merc want to split with McLaren they have to sign an engine supply deal for x amount of years

After Crashgate /Singaporegate and the sacking of Flav and Symonds I would like to see Renault continue......as a more honest team ;), also one less engine manufacturer if they go
 
stockhausen said:
There is a very interesting article on Toyota's withdrawal from FI HERE.

It also mentions the possibility of Mercedes switching its involvement from McLaren to Brawn GP which I suspect might result in McLaren alos pulling out of F1 sooner rather than later.

It doesn't really offer much justification for its claim tha Renault will remain in F1; eventually the French Government may get fed up with the expense?
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Can't see McLaren pulling out. They would just find another engine supplier!! They've not always been with Merc lol !
 
stockhausen said:
It also mentions the possibility of Mercedes switching its involvement from McLaren to Brawn GP which I suspect might result in McLaren alos pulling out of F1 sooner rather than later.
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Don't be ridiculous, the McLaren Group is built around the F1 team - everything the other arms of the business do are linked to it, from technology shared to the automotive arm to commercial applications being found for F1 technology in another arm.

There is talk of them buying up the remains of the BMW F1 motor division, and of developing their own engines in the future (the new supercar doesn't use a Mercedes engine for instance).
 
Mclaren also have another 2 years on the contract for merc engines.

not too mention that merc own 40% of mclaren at them moment.

Mclaren exist to race.
 
Over Clocker said:
Can't see McLaren pulling out. They would just find another engine supplier!! They've not always been with Merc lol !
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philjohn said:
Don't be ridiculous, the McLaren Group is built around the F1 team - everything the other arms of the business do are linked to it, from technology shared to the automotive arm to commercial applications being found for F1 technology in another arm.

There is talk of them buying up the remains of the BMW F1 motor division, and of developing their own engines in the future (the new supercar doesn't use a Mercedes engine for instance).
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dalin80 said:
Mclaren also have another 2 years on the contract for merc engines.

not too mention that merc own 40% of mclaren at them moment.

Mclaren exist to race.
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"Past performance is no guide to the future."​
 
dalin80 said:
stockhausen said:
"Past performance is no guide to the future."​
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Birds of a feather flock together.
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Oh, are we quoting random phrases now?

"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - a sentiment popular on this forum ;)

stockhausen - d'you seriously think McLaren would pull out of GP racing just because Mercedes sold their stake in the firm? I don't see it myself.

They stayed in F1 when Bruce McLaren was killed at Goodwood.
They stayed in F1 despite going whole seasons without winning a race ('70 and '71 springs to mind, as does '94, '95 and '96).
They stayed in F1 despite Ferrari and Renault domination for much of the 2000s, and Williams domination during the '90s
They stayed in F1 despite Mad Max wanting Ron Dennis gone
They stayed in F1 despite being inept enough to get caught with data from a rival team (remember, you have to be Renault or Toyota to get away with that ****)
They stayed in F1 despite being inept enough to get caught lying to the race stewards

Losing a bit of Mercedes investement is easy street compared to that lot.
 
With engine equalisation it becomes less of a factor with each new eqiualisation process (is this winter the 2nd or third?)

What are engine suppliers allowed to change (if anything)?

JRS said:
They stayed in F1 despite being inept enough to get caught with data given by a rival team (remember, you have to be Renault or Toyota to get away with that ****)
They stayed in F1 despite being inept enough to get caught lying to the race stewards
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Agree with the sentiment but had to change the bold for accuracy :)


amusing thought - what is the difference between a rival team giving information to another whether its Ferrari / McLaren or Red Bull / Torro Rosso it shouldnt matter (or management / engineers)

(hmmm are all Red Bull / TR employees payed by Red Bull conglomerate or are the teams totally seperate entities?)

I still think there is a huge difference between engineers / personnel "volunteering" to give information to a rival company and the rival paying someone to break in and steal the same info (or stealing it by other means)
 
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FrankJH said:
Agree with the sentiment but had to change the bold for accuracy :)
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Ah, but it wasn't handed to them by the team was it? It was handed to them by a disgruntled (soon to be ex) employee. They knew they were treading on thin ice - that's fine, it's to be expected when trying to steal a march on your greatest rival by gaining access to their technical data. Risk versus reward and all that. But to get caught in the act.....Jesus Christ. Just how dumb was that McLaren administration? This industrial espionage lark is a fairly simple concept. I'm amazed, appalled and on some level actually quite amused that McLaren managed to **** it up.

For the love of God, Doc Harvey Postlethwaite led a break-in of the Williams garage at one race in 1980 (think it was Hockenheim) and had their car photographed in detail. In '79, Colin Chapman had his team manager go and measure the Williams FW07 (he was caught on his second measuring run, Patrick Head threatened to punch him :D). The game was nothing new, so how McLaren could **** it up enough to get that badly ****** over by the FIA I don't suppose I'll ever know. The FIA didn't even have to make anything up!
 
I said all though that battle with max I didn't see why toyota were banging the table about budget capping because they wouldn't be in F1 for long anyway. Renault will be next.

You cannot expect to keep running F1 in it's current format and costs. As much as everyone would like a free format to expand the technology and speed those days are gone. It doesn't sell enough cars regardless of your company to make it worthwhile.

I'm glad toyota are gone, just another arrogant bunch of management like BMW (Mario T) who assumed they could do it better than pairing up with an established team.

Plus I will never understand how they got away with the Ferrari plan scandal.

Good riddance, Renault next please.
 
Engine suppliers are running low now though - and until the engine freeze is removed and some radical new designs can compete, there are now only four options available.
 
JRS said:
Ah, but it wasn't handed to them by the team was it? It was handed to them by a disgruntled (soon to be ex) employee. They knew they were treading on thin ice - that's fine, it's to be expected when trying to steal a march on your greatest rival by gaining access to their technical data. Risk versus reward and all that. But to get caught in the act.....Jesus Christ. Just how dumb was that McLaren administration? This industrial espionage lark is a fairly simple concept. I'm amazed, appalled and on some level actually quite amused that McLaren managed to **** it up.

!
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But being a disgruntled Ferrari employee makes it an internal Ferrari matter for one of their people giving information away (ie contractual issue) - not an FIA matter
 
FrankJH said:
But being a disgruntled Ferrari employee makes it an internal Ferrari matter for one of their people giving information away (ie contractual issue) - not an FIA matter
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Sure, had Ferrari caught McLaren rather than someone else and none of the sorry mess had become public. But McLaren brought the sport into disrepute - making it a matter that the FIA could claim jurisdiction over.
 
robbiemc said:
Their big plan is to buy the BMW F1 engine concern and bring it in-house. This would then essentially make them completely independent.
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An interesting idea:
The hottest rumour at the Suzuka circuit on Saturday is that McLaren is contemplating splitting completely with Mercedes at the end of the [2009] season.

Germany's Auto Motor und Sport reports that the Woking-based team's plan, masterminded by chairman and former team boss Ron Dennis, is to buy BMW's Formula One engine division from the withdrawing German carmaker in order to go it alone as an independent chassis and engine constructor.

While McLaren have denied the reports, the theory is that this would clear the path for Mercedes to completely concentrate on its intensifying partnership with Brawn.

McLaren has an engine supply contract with equity partner Mercedes for two more seasons, but Dennis is believed to be confident that - as with his new MP4-12C road car project - the outfit can manage without the Stuttgart based manufacturer.

Auto Motor und Sport said BMW would be interested in selling its F1 engine programme for the right price, and that Dennis may already have made enquiries with the marque's Munich headquarters.

It is also rumoured that McLaren's existing Bahraini investors might bolster their involvement in order to support the new independent engine programme.

"We have no plans to buy BMW's engines,” said team principal Martin Whitmarsh, while a McLaren spokesman described the rumours as “complete nonsense.”

(http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/091003110722.shtml)
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Denied by Martin Whitmarsh, so almost certainly true then ;)
 
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