Poll: Official 2024 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread - Red Bull Ring, Spielberg - Race 11/24

[Skyboat]

Andrea Stella is a man that needs to be protected. Said what a lot of us have been saying for years. I hope Lando learns well from this, both his racecraft and that no matter who you are friends with off the track, the gloves come off on the track.

 

[Flibster]

Neither were innocent in what ended up happening. But the collision was all on Verstappen.

 

[booyaka]

SkyPad: Who was at fault in crash between Max Verstappen and Lando Norris?

Anthony Davidson was at the SkyPad to give his verdict on whether Max Verstappen or Lando Norris was at fault for the crash which saw both of them surrender the chance of winning.

www.skysports.com

Excellent summary - Very clear.....

 

[Journey]

Neither were innocent in what ended up happening. But the collision was all on Verstappen.

And the moving directly into his path on other occasions.

 

[Johnz0r]

I gave MV the benefit of the doubt and hoped that he had grown up but that is on Max and I would like that given his 'friendship' with Lando that he would have put his hands up and said "yes, that's on me".

Alas it hasn't/won't happen what I now hope is that LN cuts ties and gives him a taste of his own medicine next time out in Silverstone.

Far too much respect from Macca to Red Bull. LN should just do a Senna and chuck one up the inside and crash on purpose to let him know he won't be messed around with - but that won't happen but I think that's what MV needs.

 

[imtoooldforthis]

It was a pretty minor squeeze tbh, quite similar to Hamilton on Piastri at Monza last year. The margins are fine. I’ve seen far worse squeezes from Max and plenty of other drivers over the years, this was in a battle for the win though so it gets a lot more attention than it would if some mid tier drivers had done the same.

Deserved the penalty just like Hamilton did at Monza.

 

[Jono8]

It was a pretty minor squeeze tbh, quite similar to Hamilton on Piastri at Monza last year. The margins are fine. I’ve seen far worse squeezes from Max and plenty of other drivers over the years, this was in a battle for the win though so it gets a lot more attention than it would if some mid tier drivers had done the same.

Deserved the penalty just like Hamilton did at Monza.

Not really. The initial movement wasn't too egregious. What he did after (IE just running Lando off the road) was just spiteful and uncalled for.

 

[Mesai]

I gave MV the benefit of the doubt and hoped that he had grown up but that is on Max and I would like that given his 'friendship' with Lando that he would have put his hands up and said "yes, that's on me".

Alas it hasn't/won't happen what I now hope is that LN cuts ties and gives him a taste of his own medicine next time out in Silverstone.

Far too much respect from Macca to Red Bull. LN should just do a Senna and chuck one up the inside and crash on purpose to let him know he won't be messed around with - but that won't happen but I think that's what MV needs.

What they say on camera and what they say behind the scenes can be a different story. Media is mostly garbage trying to bait a reaction. Last week Lando said he left enough space at the start but he knew he didn’t and clearly their relationship was fine.

Every single driver defends their position on camera, because admitting fault opens up the opportunity for further repercussions.

 

[imtoooldforthis]

Not really. The initial movement wasn't too egregious. What he did after (IE just running Lando off the road) was just spiteful and uncalled for.

What do you mean not really ?

He brakes at a slight angle rather than straight which causes Norris to not have enough room at the end of the braking phase, resulting in the contact. Verstappen didn't do anything after the initial braking, the only thing that happened after he started braking was the inevitable contact of Norris not having a cars width anymore due to Verstappen not braking in a straight line.

It was a pretty standard squeeze, happens all the time in motorsport, quite often resulting in a penalty like today.

His movement under braking in a couple of the prior laps were worse than the squeeze imo, but they didn't result in contact...

 

[Feek]

He brakes at a slight angle rather than straight which causes Norris to not have enough room resulting in the contact. He didn't do anything after the initial braking, the only thing that happened after he started braking was the inevitable contact of Norris not having a cars width anymore.

And the regulations say "thou shalt leave a cars width". Which he didn't.

 

[Jono8]

What do you mean not really ?

He brakes at a slight angle rather than straight which causes Norris to not have enough room at the end of the braking line he's using, resulting in the contact. Verstappen didn't do anything after the initial braking, the only thing that happened after he started braking was the inevitable contact of Norris not having a cars width anymore due to Verstappen not braking in a straight line.

It was a bog standard squeeze, happens in series around the world every single weekend lol.

His movement under braking in a couple of the prior laps were worse than the squeeze tbh, but they didn't result in contact.

No, Max didn't stay on the track/make any attempt at actually making the corner. It wasn't just a case of squeezing Lando a bit.

 

[Doggie2k]

Well I will look forward to this episode of drive to survive

 

[imtoooldforthis]

And the regulations say "thou shalt leave a cars width". Which he didn't.

Correct and he got the penalty, just like Hamilton did with Piastri. What are we disagreeing on here ?

No, Max didn't stay on the track/make any attempt at actually making the corner. It wasn't just a case of squeezing Lando a bit.

From what I can see he didn't make the corner because of the contact and instant puncture, not because he went in too hot. I've not found an overhead replay yet but from the views available it looks like he was going slow enough to make the corner and would have made it had he just braked in a straight line and avoided the contact but then Norris would have cut underneath him and got a huge run + DRS so he tried to squeeze Norris even more to further limit his exit and paid the price.

If overhead camera angles become available and they show he had no hope of making the corner I'll change my view.

edit:

Based on that he would have easily made the corner without the contact and puncture, Norris is actually going into the corner quicker than him so your 'Max was never making the corner' argument doesn't hold any weight. Without the squeeze/contact both would have made the corner but Verstappen would have got a shocking exit and run a high chance of losing position on the following straight... hence why he got greedy with the squeeze.

 

[Mesai]

And the regulations say "thou shalt leave a cars width". Which he didn't.

Norris didn’t in Spain. Clearly not a rule.

 

[cainer]

I enjoyed that race, Max "None Shall Pass" Verstappen lulz

 

[teejay73]

Andrea Stella is a man that needs to be protected. Said what a lot of us have been saying for years. I hope Lando learns well from this, both his racecraft and that no matter who you are friends with off the track, the gloves come off on the track.

I don't get the 'friends' thing in F1. It never used to be like this, or at least played out in the media like it is anyway. You can't be mates in this sport, as it's inevitable that once you're wheel to wheel in a competitive race against each other, especially Max, then you can't take prisoners.
Lando shows far too much resepct to Max, whilst Max is ruthless with everyone. Love him or hate him, that's how you've gotta be in this sport, though Max takes it to the extreme - and that needs to be dealt with. Moving in the braking zone is just asking for a big one to happen sooner or later.

 

[I_M_Weasel]

I still look back at Silverstone and the crash with Hamilton and just don't understand why Max didn't just use the huge amount of road that was available to the left and instead insisted on taking his line and then being shocked when Lewis was there. I guess he would rather crash than lose - I thought he had learned that second place is better than a DNF though.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Andrea Stella is a man that needs to be protected. Said what a lot of us have been saying for years. I hope Lando learns well from this, both his racecraft and that no matter who you are friends with off the track, the gloves come off on the track.

He should have known from Lewis's and vettel and ricardo battel with max. Norris is no idiot and should be well aware how his best mate drives..

Time for Lando the nice smiley guy to take a leaf out of Hamilton on how to deal with Max ie dont back out of a move, just do send it and take out Max along the way.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Neither were innocent in what ended up happening. But the collision was all on Verstappen.

go watch the analysis with your Max/Red bull glasses off lol

 

[jonneymendoza]

Every single driver defends their position on camera, because admitting fault opens up the opportunity for further repercussions.

Lewis has admitted fault plenty of times on camera and so has many other drivers