Caporegime
Huh? But this is the FIA being consistent? They told the teams how the wings would be tested and then tested them in the way they said.
Poll: Official 2024 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread - Baku City Circuit - Race 17/24
- Thread starter chrismscotland
- Start date
- Status
Huh? But this is the FIA being consistent? They told the teams how the wings would be tested and then tested them in the way they said.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 46,133
I think it comes down to which fan base you fall into as to whether you believe the FIA are being consistent or not. Seems like standard team and FIA cat and mouse games to me.
What I meant is that we’ve had recent flexible aero being banned during the season, but this is somehow ok?
AM and Merc had flexible front wings that passed all tests, so the FIA updated their tests and caused the wings to be non-compliant during the season.
Picking when it’s ok is inconsistent.
You can’t actually say that the FIA have ever been consistent?
For transparency, I like Oscar and Charles so I’m just trying to understand why the FIA don’t have defined guidelines for these things.
Caporegime
They did eventually, yes, but they also held the wings were legal and gave them time to change their wings for the new tests. They didn't leap in at the first report. Those wings were also bending far more than this.
But your logic is that if it passes the tests then it’s fine, at least for the season. The FIA aren’t able to measure the impact of these parts so they’re making decisions on a whim, which is inconsistent.
Several of the upcoming circuits will benefit from that wing (mix of high downforce and long straights), assuming it does what it appears to do, so phasing it out will at least leave Ferrari with a chance, and possibly RB if they fix their car.
I agree with you @Mesai but the bottom line is, they pass the CURRENT static load tests (and the one where they push a thingy though the flap gap) which is the ONLY way they can fairly police this. To introduce a new test mid way through the season would be unfair. Other teams have to try to adapt and copy the advantage. If they can't then oh well.
Good designs and taking advantage of rule interpretations is part and parcel of F1. I don't think we should be outlawing clever interpretations mid season personally, otherwise we hamper any swings in performance across the teams and innovation.
EDIT: sounds like the FIA tests for wing flex are not fit for purpose. They should better define the rules if they want to lock this down. I.e. they could start adding requirements at load where a car can be visually measured using camera equipment. I.e. whilst doing 200mph rather than at rest.
Good designs and taking advantage of rule interpretations is part and parcel of F1. I don't think we should be outlawing clever interpretations mid season personally, otherwise we hamper any swings in performance across the teams and innovation.
EDIT: sounds like the FIA tests for wing flex are not fit for purpose. They should better define the rules if they want to lock this down. I.e. they could start adding requirements at load where a car can be visually measured using camera equipment. I.e. whilst doing 200mph rather than at rest.
Last edited:
Caporegime
It's not really my logic, it's how the FIA have enforced this over the last few seasons - they did the same with Red Bull's wings. They do make mid-season changes in some cases, although only when things are particularly egregious. And, honestly, I think the more consensual, measured, approach of the FIA recently has been a good thing. I'd rather the teams had some certainty about how rules will be enforced, and where things are grey they're given a chance to change the parts rather than getting disqualified. Post-race disqualifications can be justified, but if it can be minimised without compromising things too much? Well, I'm in favour.
I'm not convinced the wing makes that much difference, and while McLaren won this race, I think the Ferrari was faster, and Pérez showed the Red Bull was capable of winning a podium, possibly even the race.
Last edited:
Soldato
Neither am I, if it was then for sure Charles would have been reporting it back to his team and a complaint would have been made. It was a simply that Mclaren were faster because they had a lower downforce setup and Charles stated as much.
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2010
- Posts
- 2,702
Yes, they had flexi front wings for years that were "legal"
Probably better in a wind tunnel simulating 200mph so they can have reference views, lighting and measurements. In fact, why don't the FIA put them all through a wind tunnel for their load tests at certain points in the season? Just because logistically it's not where the cars are i.e. track side testing? I guess also any upgrades and new parts would be unknowns after tests so any 'certification' is quickly out of date but still, I'm sure they could do something
Last edited:
That's fine if it's fully legal - definitely shouldn't disqualify a team for legal innovation, but you need to treat all teams equally baring any potential safety violation.
I also agree that it's unfair to force a change mid-season as it has budget and modelling implications, and as far as I know, the FIA don't credit teams even though it's an FIA issue.
They shouldn't be disqualified if it's all legal based on current rules, but you can't cut other teams short when meeting the same criteria because it "isn't in the spirit of the rules".
Obviously if this is a new stance, we should consistently see legal innovation being allowed for at least the complete season, but it was only last year when they banned the AM and Merc front wings, plus a flexi floor at Ferrari.
I was going to say the same thing and then stopped because I was thinking... which wind tunnel would they use? None of the teams would want to volunteer their one and wind tunnels aren't the kind of thing just lying around are they? But then...there must be companies out there that hire them out to anyone as non bias entities where you can get non bias results to help with random projects? Like say someone was trying to design a new cycling helmet or something.
Soldato
Looks like McLaren have been running this rear wing in the last few power track circuits:
I'm pretty sure McLaren or maybe Williams were using an outside of F1 company's wind tunnel (I wanna say somewhere in Germany?) while they were updating/building their own. Would be a nice contract to have for a company with wind tunnel down time I'd imagine.
Soldato
Pretty neat trick if it passes all the static tests as well. Doesn't the red bull have a very similar upward facing corner - I always wondered how that would improve performance - I expect in the exact same way.
Although looking at the Ferrari rear wing - doesn't the square end to the wing go against the spirit of the rear wing regulation changes? The McLaren still looks incredibly similar to the original 2022 concept car.
Soldato
Is this only coming up now that McLaren are leading the constructors?
Soldato
Always the same, whenever a team has the fastest car there is always some controversy. Merc, Red Bull the list goes, its all part of the F1 political game. Newy touches on it, in the High performance podcast I linked to.
I really enjoyed his interview, the podcast in general is great too.
It does seem like Ferrari have made progress over the last couple of races. They seem pretty close to Mclaren now. They seem to have leapfrogged Mercedes a bit after lagging behind them.
Pecking order for the top 4 now does seem to be:
Mclaren
Ferrari
Red Bull
Mercedes
I guess it is still quite track specific, but i don't think Monza and Baku are that similar are they (in terms of what they need from the car)?
Pecking order for the top 4 now does seem to be:
Mclaren
Ferrari
Red Bull
Mercedes
I guess it is still quite track specific, but i don't think Monza and Baku are that similar are they (in terms of what they need from the car)?
- Status