Poll: Official 2024 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Race Thread - Baku City Circuit - Race 17/24

Rate the Baku race out of ten

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jaybee said:
The videos of the Mclaren rear wing... are we talking about this:

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If it was RB, people would be lighting their torches.

I have no idea what the exact rules are on this, but can't imagine having the DRS work outside of its intended parameters is legal.
 
Kenai said:
Partially, you can also see the DRS flap has lifted slightly at the front too
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Yeah, I think some of that might be the extra light shining through bouncing off the tarmac on the main straight though which makes the gap look bigger. On the right hand image they are in the shadows. But yeah, I think there may be a bigger gap there slightly. Interesting.
 
jaybee said:
Yeah, I think some of that might be the extra light shining through bouncing off the tarmac on the main straight though which makes the gap look bigger. On the right hand image they are in the shadows. But yeah, I think there may be a bigger gap there slightly. Interesting.
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You can see the leading edge isn't a consistent line, there's a small step each side where the flap has lifted.
 
I'd like to see the same shots of all the other cars compared. FIA have form for this. They beat up the Merc when it was too fast, until it wasn't. Perhaps they will "allow" this so that the championship remains closely fought with Redbull.
 
Ban DRS, issue fixed. :D

In all seriousness, I think this is just gaming the load tests. It’s got to be a pretty fine balance between passing the load test and getting it to flex more under race load though.. Maybe increasing the load test weight is the easiest fix?
 
Kenai said:
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It's a bit more obvious in motion or with a open/close comparison as per the tweet @Mesai just posted
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Yeah I've watched loads of videos this morning and looked through plenty of image stills, it's extremely interesting. If deemed ok (if was investigated) then I imagine it's too late for most teams to get any sort of upgrade on the car until after the USA race, season running down quickly.
 
Mesai said:
There are a couple sources floating around. Very clear gap on the edges.

...Snip...
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Is it not more to do with the split design than a specific function? The bit that can pivot is separated from the rigid end bits so under load it reacts differently?

Maybe I'm being too lenient but I'd put it down to car design choice rather than gaming the system specifically. Same way that every car has it's own angles and variations. Front wing camera shots have shown how much things flex/gaps change under full aero load for years.

Edit: in fact watching it again I'm not sure we can actually say it moves differently from the end part looking at this footage alone. The lighting makes it very hard to tell for sure as the split part is angled towards the camera under load looking like it's moved further but the top edges still look relatively in line. I don't know how it would be possible to check without a reference marker between the two.
 
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That was a mighty performance from Piastri. Remaining cool under that kind of pressure for so long is impressive. Surely a future world champian in the making there?

I was impressed with both newbies as well. Just think how many extra points Williams might have had if they did the right thing and got rid of Sargeant much earlier.
 
Yeah the Mclaren rear wing is very interesting. If it is more down to the outer most elements then it may not be something the other teams can replicate closely, since the whole shape and aero design of the car affects the way the air is directed over the rear wing. So it might not have the same effect.
The fastest car always comes under scrutiny though. Maybe Mclaren's overall package is just very good right now and it's down to multiple improvements all added together. Perhaps Red Bull falling away is linked with the now outlawed automatic brake balance stuff they had going on?
 
petridish said:
Is it not more to do with the split design than a specific function? The bit that can pivot is separated from the rigid end bits so under load it reacts differently?

Maybe I'm being too lenient but I'd put it down to car design choice rather than gaming the system specifically. Same way that every car has it's own angles and variations. Front wing camera shots have shown how much things flex/gaps change under full aero load for years.

Edit: in fact watching it again I'm not sure we can actually say it moves differently from the end part looking at this footage alone. The lighting makes it very hard to tell for sure as the split part is angled towards the camera under load looking like it's moved further but the top edges still look relatively in line. I don't know how it would be possible to check without a reference marker between the two.
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It's definitely different to the other cars, and is clearly passing whatever tests are currently in place, but it does seem to be against the spirit of the DRS rules. The ends are definitely opening to let air through, whereas the Ferrari and RB you can see the DRS flap pressing down into the lower element.

Hard to imagine it isn't international; it's also similar to the front wing element that moves and was being investigated (I think Merc also have it).

As to whether it's making a difference; Charles had a higher top speed in qualifying vs Oscar (both with DRS), so I find it hard to understand why Charles couldn't overtake.
 
The slot gap is legally controlled on the rear wing. It's measured using a sphere or "circular" tool with a set diameter, that is pushed through, checks slot gap size and also the resistance it takes to distort the gap at the same time, seen it done many times. The FIA check it manually, obviously only when the cars aren't running but the slot gap rule technically applies throughout the race too. So if it increases past the set limit (when the DRS isn't open) then it's a clever bit of trick design to reduce drag on the straights. Very clever way of doing so, get the back off you need at high speed and the downforce you need in the corners when it reverts to its normal shape.
 
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Mesai said:
It's definitely different to the other cars, and is clearly passing whatever tests are currently in place, but it does seem to be against the spirit of the DRS rules. The ends are definitely opening to let air through, whereas the Ferrari and RB you can see the DRS flap pressing down into the lower element.

Hard to imagine it isn't international; it's also similar to the front wing element that moves and was being investigated (I think Merc also have it).

As to whether it's making a difference; Charles had a higher top speed in qualifying vs Oscar (both with DRS), so I find it hard to understand why Charles couldn't overtake.
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Hmm I had in my head that I knew there was a gap there already as the main part of the wing tilts upward on the bottom corners, kinda like a worn page would in a book, even when closed. Looking for photos online I can't seem to find an example that shows what I thought and it looks fairly flush when it's fully closed and stationary so perhaps I've made that up. I could have sworn I've noticed it from onboard shots for months though...

I've definitely looked at it during races and thought it's more noticeable/different than on others. I even wondered how they could manage to have such a difference between the end parts and the main wing without causing turbulence.
 
petridish said:
Hmm I had in my head that I knew there was a gap there already as the main part of the wing tilts upward on the bottom corners, kinda like a worn page would in a book, even when closed. Looking for photos online I can't seem to find an example that shows what I thought and it looks fairly flush when it's fully closed and stationary so perhaps I've made that up. I could have sworn I've noticed it from onboard shots for months though...

I've definitely looked at it during races and thought it's more noticeable/different than on others. I even wondered how they could manage to have such a difference between the end parts and the main wing without causing turbulence.
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A hydraulic pressurised actuator arm keeps the DRS forced down unless it's open, with the laminate layup of the rear flap having to be designed to be stiff/strong enough (especially out towards the edges, as the actuator is in the middle) to pass the FIA tests etc.
 
Tigget said:
A hydraulic pressurised actuator arm keeps the DRS forced down unless it's open, with the laminate layup of the rear flap having to be designed to be stiff/strong enough (especially out towards the edges, as the actuator is in the middle) to pass the FIA tests etc.
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Oh I'm well aware that the flap opens and closes, I just had in my head that the McLaren flap in particular had bottom corners that angled up slightly relative to the fixed side parts of the wing (the split yellow lines that Kenai drew). I must be misremembering and thinking about the view with DRS active and the flap fully open.
 
petridish said:
Oh I'm well aware that the flap opens and closes, I just had in my head that the McLaren flap in particular had bottom corners that angled up slightly relative to the fixed side parts of the wing (the split yellow lines that Kenai drew). I must be misremembering and thinking about the view with DRS active and the flap fully open.
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It's entirely possible their wing has been doing this all season but nobody has paid attention until now they're winning
 
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